Some Control Arm Questions
11-24-2011, 07:27 PM
#1
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,264
Some Control Arm Questions
Well, for black friday UPR has the %15 off going on so I thought about picking up some control arms for my car. I really just drag race it and do some street driving. By no means is it my DD.
I plan on running boost in the future probably around 430 at the wheels and I've a lot of how much they can help on 60' times ect. Basically just looking for tips/advice on which arms to buy and why, I as looking at these, also the descrip for the lowers say rear sway bar must be removed. Does that mean must be removed for the install or must be removed permanently ?
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...trol-arms.html
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-9...l-arm-kit.html
Let me know what you guys think, thanks.
I plan on running boost in the future probably around 430 at the wheels and I've a lot of how much they can help on 60' times ect. Basically just looking for tips/advice on which arms to buy and why, I as looking at these, also the descrip for the lowers say rear sway bar must be removed. Does that mean must be removed for the install or must be removed permanently ?
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...trol-arms.html
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-9...l-arm-kit.html
Let me know what you guys think, thanks.
11-25-2011, 07:57 AM
#2
Retired Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
Those arms will serve you well, but the OEM located rear sway-bar is PERMANENTLY removed, with that particular LCA. I am nearly positive that UPR has the same LCA with an available sway-bar mounting plate welded onto them. There are alternatives to a sway-bar mounting and UPR makes one, but is NOT good for street use at all! It is an anti-roll bar, rather than a sway-bar. I happen to use an MMRSB, but if you're not really into cornering, it is probably not the right direction for you.
You can also look at ***THIS*** arm instead and includes the mounting plate. It will offer a bit less NVH than the LCA you listed, but will get the bulk of it from the uppers you are looking to purchase. ALL uppers designed to help with rear-axle function, are going to have a spherical bearing and NVH is the by-product of such benefits.
If this is NOT a DD and strictly for track use, you really need some sort of rear bar, so you need to make a decision here. Hopefully, UPRSharad will chime in with what I believe to be the LCA you listed, but with an included sway-bar mounting plate. The other way to go, would be for HARDCORE 1/4 mile doods and would be the anti-roll bar, as found on UPR's site. Again, this would NOT be to drive to/from the track, but really should disconnect it or trailor it to your events.
Jazzer
PS. I realize that if you are not familiar with all the lingo and such I have mentioned, this can be confusing. A peek in to the suspension guide will help to understand this stuff and may be of help
You can also look at ***THIS*** arm instead and includes the mounting plate. It will offer a bit less NVH than the LCA you listed, but will get the bulk of it from the uppers you are looking to purchase. ALL uppers designed to help with rear-axle function, are going to have a spherical bearing and NVH is the by-product of such benefits.
If this is NOT a DD and strictly for track use, you really need some sort of rear bar, so you need to make a decision here. Hopefully, UPRSharad will chime in with what I believe to be the LCA you listed, but with an included sway-bar mounting plate. The other way to go, would be for HARDCORE 1/4 mile doods and would be the anti-roll bar, as found on UPR's site. Again, this would NOT be to drive to/from the track, but really should disconnect it or trailor it to your events.
Jazzer
PS. I realize that if you are not familiar with all the lingo and such I have mentioned, this can be confusing. A peek in to the suspension guide will help to understand this stuff and may be of help
11-25-2011, 06:51 PM
#4
Retired Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
If this is a DD, it is really a good idea to have a rear sway bar. The SN95 is already prone to understeer and will have even more without a rear bar. If you WERE to get into AX or serious about the 1/4 mile, you would need to get pretty specific about which one you want more. Suspension takes a fairly abrupt turn one way or the other, between these two activities.
Jazzer
Jazzer
11-25-2011, 07:54 PM
#5
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,264
I'll defiantly always be 1/4 mile. and the 2002-02-99 lcas let you keep the sway bar so I'd want those. Thoughts on the uppers ?
I've got steeda tubulars on my fox body but they're fixed/non adjustable and it still wheel hops like a ****.
I've got steeda tubulars on my fox body but they're fixed/non adjustable and it still wheel hops like a ****.
11-25-2011, 08:28 PM
#6
Jazzer hit the nail on the head!
I'd recommend this kit: http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...ackage-99.html
But my personal recommendation is to substitute the uppers for the Pro Street UCAs with sphericals. They transfer the weight a little easier.
If you call the shop (instead of using the webstore) and tell them Sharad told you to substitute the uppers for Pro Series bars, I'm sure they'll take care of it. (with the 15% off Black Friday deal) If not, drop me a PM, and I'll take care of it for you!
I'd recommend this kit: http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...ackage-99.html
But my personal recommendation is to substitute the uppers for the Pro Street UCAs with sphericals. They transfer the weight a little easier.
If you call the shop (instead of using the webstore) and tell them Sharad told you to substitute the uppers for Pro Series bars, I'm sure they'll take care of it. (with the 15% off Black Friday deal) If not, drop me a PM, and I'll take care of it for you!
11-25-2011, 09:37 PM
#7
Retired Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
^ See what I told ya aboot* Sharad chimin' in givin' teh mad hook-up for his pepe Explosive?
Definitely take him up on the spherical UCA's as a substitute! They will bring you more NVH, as mentioned, but addressing pinion angle and freeing up the rear-axle to do its thing, is a HUGE benefit to not only the 1/4 mile, but DD use as well.
Who knows... the doctors are frantically working on a cure for quarters-disease and you may be rid of this horrible affliction one day
Jazzer... tossin' some North of the border lingo* for his pepes
Definitely take him up on the spherical UCA's as a substitute! They will bring you more NVH, as mentioned, but addressing pinion angle and freeing up the rear-axle to do its thing, is a HUGE benefit to not only the 1/4 mile, but DD use as well.
Who knows... the doctors are frantically working on a cure for quarters-disease and you may be rid of this horrible affliction one day
Jazzer... tossin' some North of the border lingo* for his pepes
11-26-2011, 02:56 AM
#8
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,264
Ah thank you, the sphericals are what I was wanting, I thought the uppers I posted were the correct adjustables. You mean these guys ? http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...trol-arms.html part # 2001-01
11-26-2011, 07:09 AM
#9
Retired Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
^ 
Those adjustables and ones you linked on your initial post, along with those in the link from Sharad, are indeed adjustable. Adjustable can be a real bonus for 1/4 mile doods/doodettes, because getting the pinion angle correct for a good launch is a good thing. The fundamental difference between the two, is the addition of the spherical end. This spherical end allows a more complete freedom of movement for the rear axle and something of which the Mustang 4-link consists in VERY short supply
Below is a section of my guide and explains this pretty well:
In your particular case, the mention of a PHB or WL with TA, is really not applicable, as your focus is moderate DD and 1/4 mile use. Those items will work fine for such activity, but most will say not as well and certainly more expensive.
Jazzer
Those adjustables and ones you linked on your initial post, along with those in the link from Sharad, are indeed adjustable. Adjustable can be a real bonus for 1/4 mile doods/doodettes, because getting the pinion angle correct for a good launch is a good thing. The fundamental difference between the two, is the addition of the spherical end. This spherical end allows a more complete freedom of movement for the rear axle and something of which the Mustang 4-link consists in VERY short supply
Below is a section of my guide and explains this pretty well:
Upper Control Arms: Upper control arms (UCA's) are the wonder twins of your rear suspension. They are simply a couple a steel pieces that connect at a funny angle to your upper differential casing. In normal driving conditions, they are fine, but when at the limits, they are plain dangerous. They bind under hard turning making your tire grip unpredictable, they help limit, but in no way prevent, axle wind up. They also contribute greatly to what is oft referred to as "snap-steer" (< bad thing!). With the installation of a WL or PHB and TA, these are COMPLETELY REMOVED to rid oneself of the horrible bind created by such a pair of hideous beasts. This binding is hard to explain, but take a look at the image below:
Imagine the movement of both sets of control arms, but focus specifically the UCA's. When the axle articulates (driving at an angle up a steep incline) imagine what position you will see the UCA's in such a case! There is NO WAY IN HELL they will move freely to a position which is asked of them. They will go a very short distance, until they must flex via poor structural strength and soft rubber bushings. When UCA's are pushed to the limit around a high-speed corner with lots of body roll, this binding can result in snap-steer and the possibility of losing control goes way up. There are a couple of solutions in which to address this binding issue and my particular preference is with the installation of two parts. These would be either a WL or PHB with TA and will do the entire job of the UCA's in a FAR, FAR, FAR better way. Now... imagine the scenario described above with a set of solid poly UCA's installed (seen directly below) in their place and the resulting effects seen in the following picture
Imagine the movement of both sets of control arms, but focus specifically the UCA's. When the axle articulates (driving at an angle up a steep incline) imagine what position you will see the UCA's in such a case! There is NO WAY IN HELL they will move freely to a position which is asked of them. They will go a very short distance, until they must flex via poor structural strength and soft rubber bushings. When UCA's are pushed to the limit around a high-speed corner with lots of body roll, this binding can result in snap-steer and the possibility of losing control goes way up. There are a couple of solutions in which to address this binding issue and my particular preference is with the installation of two parts. These would be either a WL or PHB with TA and will do the entire job of the UCA's in a FAR, FAR, FAR better way. Now... imagine the scenario described above with a set of solid poly UCA's installed (seen directly below) in their place and the resulting effects seen in the following picture
Jazzer
11-27-2011, 09:27 AM
#10
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Explosive -
Just to toss in one more reason for getting the lowers with the tabs for the OE sta-bar - if you're running any tire/wheel sizing stagger, the smaller front setup will normally add some understeer above whatever the car came with. There's no reason to sacrifice any further from good daily driving manners when keeping a rear bar (even the relatively soft OE one) will help out at least a little in everything that you've mentioned using the car for. Believe it or not, even the OE rear bar tries to equalize the rear tire loading under acceleration (and therefore the right vs left traction).
I don't know if there are any OE-style bars for the SN95/NE that are any stiffer than OE, but if there are I think that might be something to eventually consider. The other sta-bar "option" - true drag-race "antiroll bars" - are generally too stiff for street driving. Not because they're uncomfortably stiff, but because keeping them connected on the street can let (make?) the tail get loose a little too easily . . . usually right about the time when having the car get tail-happy is the last thing you want to have happen.
Norm
Just to toss in one more reason for getting the lowers with the tabs for the OE sta-bar - if you're running any tire/wheel sizing stagger, the smaller front setup will normally add some understeer above whatever the car came with. There's no reason to sacrifice any further from good daily driving manners when keeping a rear bar (even the relatively soft OE one) will help out at least a little in everything that you've mentioned using the car for. Believe it or not, even the OE rear bar tries to equalize the rear tire loading under acceleration (and therefore the right vs left traction).
I don't know if there are any OE-style bars for the SN95/NE that are any stiffer than OE, but if there are I think that might be something to eventually consider. The other sta-bar "option" - true drag-race "antiroll bars" - are generally too stiff for street driving. Not because they're uncomfortably stiff, but because keeping them connected on the street can let (make?) the tail get loose a little too easily . . . usually right about the time when having the car get tail-happy is the last thing you want to have happen.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 11-27-2011 at 09:29 AM.