Am I correct? Lowering ?'s
10-22-2014, 07:14 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: AR
Posts: 236
Am I correct? Lowering ?'s
Project car 2008 GT Convertable.
I'm planning a winter project and a Christmas list. This is mostly fact checking to confirm my understanding from the research I have done reading the stickys and threads. I do need some recommendations and questions answered though as well.
FACT AND GENERAL UNDERSTANDING CHECK:
If I want to lower the car 1.3 to 1.5 inches all I really need is the lowering springs. However since the panhard bar is fixed length the rear axle will no longer be quite centered. I'll also lose some traction as my LCA's are no longer parallel with the ground. If I lower the car greater than 1.5 in the front then bump steer will likely be introduced.
I can correct the Traction loss with either LCA relocation brackets or adjustable LCA's or UCA's. To keep a stock feel the brackets or poly bushings on both ends of the adj LCA's/UCA's is best.
To correct the axle centering an adjustable panhard bar or a watts link can be used. I'll choose panhard bar for cost and street use as the cars function.
To correct bump steer there is a bump steer kit to reduce it.
ACTUAL PLANS:
However I actually want to make it handle better so I was thinking about buying this kit from AM.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach...em-0510gt.html
Since a one piece driveshaft is somewhere down the road I think I'll go with the adj LCA option as that will set me up for when that time comes. LCA's being easier to adjust due to access than UCA's being the reason for my choice of LCA's over UCA's.
I need a recommendation on adj LCA's that won't be to harsh or noisy though.
For a panhard bar I was thinking just the dual adjustable steeda or UPR bar. There Didn't seem to be a lot of differences in all the bars I looked at so these seemed as good as anything else.
Does the car being a convertable have any effect on any of this? Like I think it weighs more than a coupe so might it drop more with the lowering springs for example.
With the lowering springs I'm going with having a 1.3 in in front does anything get out of wack on the front end? Like caster/camber of the wheels? That I need to correct to get back within specs? I don't want tires to wear uneven for example.
This car will never see a track, but I live in the ozark mountains so lots of twisty roads it will see. I will be adding some 20in deep dish wheels if that makes any difference as well.
I tried to do my research before asking questions, but I'm to the point of needing recommendations and not wanting to buy the wrong stuff.
I'll be doing the work myself over a few week period while the car isn't being driven anyway over the winter. And yes as my ID suggests I am nearly blind, but I've never let conventional wisdom or common sense for that matter stand in my way so I'm not worried about this project as it seems straight forward to me
Thanks for any help.
I'm planning a winter project and a Christmas list. This is mostly fact checking to confirm my understanding from the research I have done reading the stickys and threads. I do need some recommendations and questions answered though as well.
FACT AND GENERAL UNDERSTANDING CHECK:
If I want to lower the car 1.3 to 1.5 inches all I really need is the lowering springs. However since the panhard bar is fixed length the rear axle will no longer be quite centered. I'll also lose some traction as my LCA's are no longer parallel with the ground. If I lower the car greater than 1.5 in the front then bump steer will likely be introduced.
I can correct the Traction loss with either LCA relocation brackets or adjustable LCA's or UCA's. To keep a stock feel the brackets or poly bushings on both ends of the adj LCA's/UCA's is best.
To correct the axle centering an adjustable panhard bar or a watts link can be used. I'll choose panhard bar for cost and street use as the cars function.
To correct bump steer there is a bump steer kit to reduce it.
ACTUAL PLANS:
However I actually want to make it handle better so I was thinking about buying this kit from AM.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach...em-0510gt.html
Since a one piece driveshaft is somewhere down the road I think I'll go with the adj LCA option as that will set me up for when that time comes. LCA's being easier to adjust due to access than UCA's being the reason for my choice of LCA's over UCA's.
I need a recommendation on adj LCA's that won't be to harsh or noisy though.
For a panhard bar I was thinking just the dual adjustable steeda or UPR bar. There Didn't seem to be a lot of differences in all the bars I looked at so these seemed as good as anything else.
Does the car being a convertable have any effect on any of this? Like I think it weighs more than a coupe so might it drop more with the lowering springs for example.
With the lowering springs I'm going with having a 1.3 in in front does anything get out of wack on the front end? Like caster/camber of the wheels? That I need to correct to get back within specs? I don't want tires to wear uneven for example.
This car will never see a track, but I live in the ozark mountains so lots of twisty roads it will see. I will be adding some 20in deep dish wheels if that makes any difference as well.
I tried to do my research before asking questions, but I'm to the point of needing recommendations and not wanting to buy the wrong stuff.
I'll be doing the work myself over a few week period while the car isn't being driven anyway over the winter. And yes as my ID suggests I am nearly blind, but I've never let conventional wisdom or common sense for that matter stand in my way so I'm not worried about this project as it seems straight forward to me
Thanks for any help.
10-22-2014, 09:29 PM
#2
This was mostly correct. You only need springs to be able to lower it.
This adjustable PHB is recommended so you can center the rear, but it's not absolutely necessary:
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-p...rd-bar-05.html
Adjustable LCAs won't correct the angle. LCA Relo Brackets do that, but they're not necessary with a 1.5" drop. On the contrary, even though I sell the strongest set on the market, I don't recommend installing the LCA Relos unless you plan to weld and brace the axle housing at the same time as the LCA Relo installation. Otherwise, you could spin a tube and have major problems.
This adjustable PHB is recommended so you can center the rear, but it's not absolutely necessary:
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-p...rd-bar-05.html
Adjustable LCAs won't correct the angle. LCA Relo Brackets do that, but they're not necessary with a 1.5" drop. On the contrary, even though I sell the strongest set on the market, I don't recommend installing the LCA Relos unless you plan to weld and brace the axle housing at the same time as the LCA Relo installation. Otherwise, you could spin a tube and have major problems.
10-23-2014, 09:04 AM
#3
Looks like Sharad beat me by a mile here and I think you would be just fine running the Eibach Pro-System without the Panhard Bar but I think it's something that would help the cars overall performance when you're pushing it in the twisties. Let me know if there's anything else I can help out with, I'm always a PM away as you know!
Alex
Alex
10-23-2014, 10:33 AM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: AR
Posts: 236
This was mostly correct. You only need springs to be able to lower it.
This adjustable PHB is recommended so you can center the rear, but it's not absolutely necessary:
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-p...rd-bar-05.html
Adjustable LCAs won't correct the angle. LCA Relo Brackets do that, but they're not necessary with a 1.5" drop. On the contrary, even though I sell the strongest set on the market, I don't recommend installing the LCA Relos unless you plan to weld and brace the axle housing at the same time as the LCA Relo installation. Otherwise, you could spin a tube and have major problems.
This adjustable PHB is recommended so you can center the rear, but it's not absolutely necessary:
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-p...rd-bar-05.html
Adjustable LCAs won't correct the angle. LCA Relo Brackets do that, but they're not necessary with a 1.5" drop. On the contrary, even though I sell the strongest set on the market, I don't recommend installing the LCA Relos unless you plan to weld and brace the axle housing at the same time as the LCA Relo installation. Otherwise, you could spin a tube and have major problems.
To confirm: For lowering & handling I just need the springs/scocks/struts/sway bars. Pan hard to correct centering of axle if I want. Nothing needed in the front with only a 1.3 in drop. No tires will wear uneven or anything like that.
Will it being a convertable make it drop any extra amount above the 1.3 -> 1.5 specs for that kit? I would want it to look funny dropped extra in the back as opposed to the front for example. I am looking for similar wheel/fender gaps if that makes sense.
I've only ran across one kit "made" for a vert with a 1" drop all around, which sense it drops all wheels the same amount, would leave uneven gaps as the car has today.
Every other kit says it will "also" fit a vert, but I think the vert weighing more would change the springs up a bit.
I am concerned about this extra weight affecting the look and handling of a kit. Unless that kit is specifically designed for a vert.
10-23-2014, 08:20 PM
#5
Interesting I would have thought that adj LCA's that were adjusted shorter than the stock length would have reestablished the parallel geometry. One less thing to buy now. I think I will need them with a one piece drive shaft though.
To confirm: For lowering & handling I just need the springs/scocks/struts/sway bars. Pan hard to correct centering of axle if I want. Nothing needed in the front with only a 1.3 in drop. No tires will wear uneven or anything like that.
Will it being a convertable make it drop any extra amount above the 1.3 -> 1.5 specs for that kit? I would want it to look funny dropped extra in the back as opposed to the front for example. I am looking for similar wheel/fender gaps if that makes sense.
I've only ran across one kit "made" for a vert with a 1" drop all around, which sense it drops all wheels the same amount, would leave uneven gaps as the car has today.
Every other kit says it will "also" fit a vert, but I think the vert weighing more would change the springs up a bit.
I am concerned about this extra weight affecting the look and handling of a kit. Unless that kit is specifically designed for a vert.
To confirm: For lowering & handling I just need the springs/scocks/struts/sway bars. Pan hard to correct centering of axle if I want. Nothing needed in the front with only a 1.3 in drop. No tires will wear uneven or anything like that.
Will it being a convertable make it drop any extra amount above the 1.3 -> 1.5 specs for that kit? I would want it to look funny dropped extra in the back as opposed to the front for example. I am looking for similar wheel/fender gaps if that makes sense.
I've only ran across one kit "made" for a vert with a 1" drop all around, which sense it drops all wheels the same amount, would leave uneven gaps as the car has today.
Every other kit says it will "also" fit a vert, but I think the vert weighing more would change the springs up a bit.
I am concerned about this extra weight affecting the look and handling of a kit. Unless that kit is specifically designed for a vert.
01-06-2015, 02:10 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: AR
Posts: 236
Just and update on the package I decided to put together. Last parts come in this week.
I’ll install some weekend within the next couple of weeks followed by a trip to the alignment shop.
Since I have a convertible the springs & anti-rollbars are Convertible Specific.
Springs: Steeda (Part# 555-8220) (Progressive/Lowering 1" Front & 1.25" Rear)
Panhard bar: Steeda HD Adjustable (Part# 555-2551-A)
Panhard Brace: Steeda (this I’m not sure on, but it was cheap) (Part# 555-2555)
Struts: Koni STR.T (Part# 610-8750-1030) (I sure wish Koni had provided dust boots so I could pre-assemble these and not even need to disassemble the stock struts! I already have the bump stop and I can buy the Ford Spring Isolator part# 6R3Z-5L302-A, but not the stupid dust boots separately. Some say boot isn’t required, but I want it. Pre-assembly would just save on the actual install time.)
Shocks: Koni STR.T (Part# 279-8250-1008)
Upper Strut Mounts: GT500 mounts (Part# M-18183-C) (Likely I’ll install arrow towards engine rather than fender to reduce some negative caster)
Jounce Bump Stops: Ford Racing (Part# M-5570-A)
Anti-Rollbars Front/Rear: Ford Racing (Part# M-5490-D)
Camber Adjustment bolts: Eibach (Part# 47815) (likely these won’t be needed, but at $25 I wanted them before heading to alignment shop in case)
I guess we’ll see how good the parts work together on the twisty roads when the weather gets better. Not expecting to win any autocross races, but it as to be better than stock!
All, but the GT500 mounts & Front Koni’s were ordered from site sponsors (AM, CJPP, Steeda) and with their respective forum discount codes I saved quite a large amount of money so I’d like to thank them for that benefit
I’ll install some weekend within the next couple of weeks followed by a trip to the alignment shop.
Since I have a convertible the springs & anti-rollbars are Convertible Specific.
Springs: Steeda (Part# 555-8220) (Progressive/Lowering 1" Front & 1.25" Rear)
Panhard bar: Steeda HD Adjustable (Part# 555-2551-A)
Panhard Brace: Steeda (this I’m not sure on, but it was cheap) (Part# 555-2555)
Struts: Koni STR.T (Part# 610-8750-1030) (I sure wish Koni had provided dust boots so I could pre-assemble these and not even need to disassemble the stock struts! I already have the bump stop and I can buy the Ford Spring Isolator part# 6R3Z-5L302-A, but not the stupid dust boots separately. Some say boot isn’t required, but I want it. Pre-assembly would just save on the actual install time.)
Shocks: Koni STR.T (Part# 279-8250-1008)
Upper Strut Mounts: GT500 mounts (Part# M-18183-C) (Likely I’ll install arrow towards engine rather than fender to reduce some negative caster)
Jounce Bump Stops: Ford Racing (Part# M-5570-A)
Anti-Rollbars Front/Rear: Ford Racing (Part# M-5490-D)
Camber Adjustment bolts: Eibach (Part# 47815) (likely these won’t be needed, but at $25 I wanted them before heading to alignment shop in case)
I guess we’ll see how good the parts work together on the twisty roads when the weather gets better. Not expecting to win any autocross races, but it as to be better than stock!
All, but the GT500 mounts & Front Koni’s were ordered from site sponsors (AM, CJPP, Steeda) and with their respective forum discount codes I saved quite a large amount of money so I’d like to thank them for that benefit
Last edited by BlindGUYnAR; 01-19-2015 at 09:48 AM.
01-19-2015, 09:36 AM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: AR
Posts: 236
Well got everything installed last week. Everything worked well, but I did run into one issue that DIY vert owners should be aware of.
The extra bracing for the convertible wouldn't allow the rear axle to drop low enough to pull out the stock springs. The axle would hit the bracing and stop dropping. The bracing is sort of like bolted in subframe connectors connecting the rear where the spare tire is, outward to the sides, and then goes forward. The axle sits above the bracing creating the issue. I can also see how a rear swaybar could interfere with this bracing if it weren't designed to account for it so ensure your part choices accounts for this.
I didn't really want to remove the bracing and thankfully I was able to get around it. I was able to get spring compressors in there to compress the stock springs a bit. That allowed me to get them out. New springs went in fine without the need for the compressors, but just barely.
As a note due to this bracing the removal of the swaybar, panhard bar, or panhard bar brace will likely require you to either remove the vert bracing for the install or a easier solution is to just remove one of the rear wheels so you can fish them in from the side.
One other unexpected thing was that while doing the front I found a little play in both my lower ball joints so I replaced them while I was there with "MOOG" units from Rockauto. The play wasn't much, but I was afraid alignment shop would complain about them. Anyway that added a few extra days waiting on parts and a few extra hrs for the install.
I installed upper strut mounts with arrows in rather than out and after a visit to the alignment shop this last Sunday I was -0.9 and -1.0 camber so no adjustments required. The only adjustments needed was for tow.
I've measured my rear axle centering and I'm about 1/4 inch toward the driver side. I'm not sure why I didn't ask them to center it while it was on the lift for alignment and feel dumb for not asking, but I didn't so I'll have to adjust that over by an 1/8 to split the difference in the coming days.
The car is now nearly 100% leveled front to back and now needs a new pair of deep dish shoes to make it look really good.
You wouldn't think 1" would do much, but parking curbs, car ramps jacks and such are now all concerns. For jacking rear I plan on just driving onto a 2x? to gain back the spacing for my jack (vert bracing interferes with my jack at the lowered height). The front seems fine as is for the jack. Parking curbs look like they'll hit the under side of nose depending on their height which I guess applies to non lowered cars as well. Now it looks like they could come close to smashing the nose too.
Haven't had a chance to drive any twisty roads, but I can say nose drive is pretty much a thing of the past.
The extra bracing for the convertible wouldn't allow the rear axle to drop low enough to pull out the stock springs. The axle would hit the bracing and stop dropping. The bracing is sort of like bolted in subframe connectors connecting the rear where the spare tire is, outward to the sides, and then goes forward. The axle sits above the bracing creating the issue. I can also see how a rear swaybar could interfere with this bracing if it weren't designed to account for it so ensure your part choices accounts for this.
I didn't really want to remove the bracing and thankfully I was able to get around it. I was able to get spring compressors in there to compress the stock springs a bit. That allowed me to get them out. New springs went in fine without the need for the compressors, but just barely.
As a note due to this bracing the removal of the swaybar, panhard bar, or panhard bar brace will likely require you to either remove the vert bracing for the install or a easier solution is to just remove one of the rear wheels so you can fish them in from the side.
One other unexpected thing was that while doing the front I found a little play in both my lower ball joints so I replaced them while I was there with "MOOG" units from Rockauto. The play wasn't much, but I was afraid alignment shop would complain about them. Anyway that added a few extra days waiting on parts and a few extra hrs for the install.
I installed upper strut mounts with arrows in rather than out and after a visit to the alignment shop this last Sunday I was -0.9 and -1.0 camber so no adjustments required. The only adjustments needed was for tow.
I've measured my rear axle centering and I'm about 1/4 inch toward the driver side. I'm not sure why I didn't ask them to center it while it was on the lift for alignment and feel dumb for not asking, but I didn't so I'll have to adjust that over by an 1/8 to split the difference in the coming days.
The car is now nearly 100% leveled front to back and now needs a new pair of deep dish shoes to make it look really good.
You wouldn't think 1" would do much, but parking curbs, car ramps jacks and such are now all concerns. For jacking rear I plan on just driving onto a 2x? to gain back the spacing for my jack (vert bracing interferes with my jack at the lowered height). The front seems fine as is for the jack. Parking curbs look like they'll hit the under side of nose depending on their height which I guess applies to non lowered cars as well. Now it looks like they could come close to smashing the nose too.
Haven't had a chance to drive any twisty roads, but I can say nose drive is pretty much a thing of the past.
Last edited by BlindGUYnAR; 01-19-2015 at 09:49 AM.
02-01-2015, 08:26 AM
#8
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Close Enough
Posts: 1,413
Wish I had seen this sooner and it won't help much now but in the future..
once you have the axle laying on the rear brace you can put a floor jack under the right side and jack it up, this will cause the left side to drop and you can pull the spring out and the new one in like that.
Also, yes, just remove one wheel and fish the panhard and swaybar through.
once you have the axle laying on the rear brace you can put a floor jack under the right side and jack it up, this will cause the left side to drop and you can pull the spring out and the new one in like that.
Also, yes, just remove one wheel and fish the panhard and swaybar through.
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