CruizinConcepts

[05 Mustang]

I know Mike with CruizinConcepts has a really good reputation on this forum for delivering good products and providing great service, but the experience I just went through and had with them was by far one of my worst. I completely understand that there are always two sides to every story and below is mine. I know that this will be read by Mike, as well as others with CruizinConcepts, and if I have stated anything below that is not true, please let me know and I will either argue the facts or retract the statement(s). I have no problem admitting I made a mistake, if I did. I feel very confident that during this whole ordeal I was more than fair and went above and beyond what a customer should have to go through to try and make things work. It should be known that this is in no way an attempt by me to discredit Mike or CruizinConcepts. I sincerely hope that this will help other forum members to ask the right questions before making an online purchase and foster better communications and service between you and the vendors of this or any other forum. Words of wisdom, there is an old saying, “The customer is always right.” It should not be incumbent upon the buyer to have to prove to the vendor that a product they sell or represent is defective or in error. It is the responsibility of the vendor to prove to the buyer that the product is without defect or error in good faith to the best of their ability. And if said product is found to be defective or in error that the vendor should offer to replace or refund the product immediately. My lessons learned: 1. Do not buy a rim & tire combination on line, buy your tires locally so you can get a full warranty with them. This will allow you to get any issues corrected on the spot and not play any games. 2. When buying rims, ask the vendor to spin test them prior to shipping to check for roundness. Ask them to also include documentation (or a letter) stating the results. This will cover any finger pointing when you go to your local tire store to have everything mounted if something is not correct. ************************************************** ********************** Brief Overview Several months ago I started looking and researching new rims and tires for my new 2008 Convertible GT500. I went back and forth between CS40’s, MRR’s, Alcoa Super Snakes and a few others here locally. All the rims were going to be 20” with a staggered rim/tire set-up. I was unsure of exactly which tire to go with, but it was going to be either a Nitto or a Toyo from previous, pleasant, experiences with each. After much research, I decided to do business with Mike at CruizinConcepts, because of all the good things I had read on the mustangforums website, and go with the Alcoa Super Snake rims and Toyo Proxe 4 tires. I sat down and talked with Mike, decided on rims, tires, and accessories and was told he’d be in touch when everything was ready. Mike reassured me that I would be taken care of and from the price I was given up front for everything, I felt very good at that point! Unfortunately, once I took delivery of the rims/tires, everything went down hill from there and the situation’s I got put in were definitely not what I expected. Mike was a good guy, someone that I really enjoyed talking to and hanging around, but from a business aspect, it was a horrible experience to go through. I admit that I got a good deal on everything being a member of the mustangforums website, but it will never make up for what I went through to get everything corrected. I want everyone to understand that getting a good deal over the internet is NOT always what it’s cracked up to be and if you have just one thing go wrong, you will pay dearly out of your own pocket to get it resolved..….trust me! ************************************************** ********************** The following is a day by day account to describe my recent “business” history with Mike and CruizinConcepts. Thursday Night, 15-Oct-09 – My car club president and I met with Mike and picked up the rims/tires. Friday, 16-Oct-09 – I installed the new rims/tires on the car before noon, snapped 2 quick pictures for the forums and pulled the car back in the garage because it was sprinkling. Saturday, 17-Oct-09 – It rained all day so the car sat in the garage. I didn’t go anywhere. Sunday Morning/Afternoon, 18-Oct-09 – I drove the car right up the road (about a half mile or so from my neighborhood, on a road where the speed limit is 35 or 40) to the local Middle School to snap more pictures of the rims/tires on the car. When I finished, I came straight home, downloaded everything to my computer and posted pictures on the forums. Sunday Night, 18-Oct-09 – Darren (degeze from the mustangforums) and his wife came over to my house to see our new Baby Boy. During their visit, Darren and I decided to take the car out for a spin. While out, I decided to take it out on the interstate. As soon as the car got to ~60mph, it shook in such a way, Darren looked at me and said, that didn’t feel right…I agreed with him and I brought the car straight home and parked it. Monday, 19-Oct-09 – I called and talked to Mike about the shaking issue I was having and was told the there could be nothing wrong with the rims/tires because his warehouse manger personally mounted and balanced everything. He went on to try and explain the type of ride that you get when go from stock tires to low profile tires and how different it was going to be …which I quickly agreed with because I have owned several sets in the past, but told him that it shouldn’t involve the car shaking like mine was. ….and the faster I drove, the worse the shake got. I asked if these rims/tires had been road force balanced and Mike told me no, that they didn’t have that type of equipment. So I ended the conversation a little frustrated and tried to think about how to proceed. I decided to take the car down to Ford and have my buddy reprogram the sensors and talk to him about my vibration issues. While there, I asked if they could check everything out because something was apparently not right. They told me they could check the balance only because they didn’t have advanced equipment to really check for anything else and suggested taking it to an aftermarket rim/tire shop. After he reprogrammed my sensors, I went back home. I called around to several shops and decided to take the car down to Butler Tires in Marietta, Georgia. Butler Tires is a high performance speed shop with the capabilities of doing just about everything, including 130mph on the car high speed balancing. I got down there at about 2:00pm and after about an hour of waiting, my car was finally pulled in. They started with the passenger front wheel. They put it on their road force machine and immediately called me back into the shop. I was told that their machine measures road force with 26 or less being acceptable (the higher the number, the worse a tire is going to ride/perform). With this particular rim/tire, their machine in big bold highlighted letters said that this rim was no good and recommended immediate replacement! After showing me the screen they proceeded to spin it again so I could see it for myself and sure enough you could see the inside lip of the rim moving up and down, instead of spinning completely round. They told me that they felt very confident they could “index” the rim and tire and make it work. **Indexing the rim and tire is matching the highs and lows of each so that you get more of a “round” combination**. I immediately called Mike and told him what was going on. He explained to me that the rims/tires were not only installed by his warehouse manager personally, but that there should be nothing wrong with them He then told me that he’s never had a Shelby Super Snake rim be like this before and it would definitely be a first. During our discussion he asked if I had hit any bad bumps or any pot holes that could have caused the rim to get like this and I reassured (promised over & over again) him that I hadn’t. I told him that they felt they could “index” everything to get it right and that we would just keep in touch, he agreed. Well, they worked their magic and got the rim and tire combination down to a “10” road force, which if by far acceptable to put on the car. They then proceeded to move around to the driver’s side front, no problem, then to the passenger rear, no problem, then to the driver’s side rear, major problem. The rear tire was reading as being “out of round”. They road forced it and “indexed” it about 3 or 4 times and the best they could get it was a “46”. They told me that this was completely unacceptable to put on the car, that it will not ride properly, and it should be replaced! I then called Mike back with the other bad news. I was told that there was no way possible it was the tire, because they were brand spanking new. While talking to him on the phone, he put me on hold and called his tire guy. He switched back over after a few minutes and told me that he was finding it hard to believe that the tire was bad and started bad mouthing Butler Tires. I kindly reminded him that I called him first and that he told me there was nothing he could do for me and so I was left with taking matters into my own hands and making right what was wrong….but now it’s out of my control because there’s no way to fix or “index” an “out of round” tire. He then proceeded to explain to me what a pain in the rear it would be to replace my tire because his Toyo dealer requires thorough testing to prove that the tire is indeed bad. I told him I would bring him the car and he could see for himself and he once again told me that it would do no good because he didn’t have the equipment for that. As everyone can imagine, I’m getting somewhat frustrated because I have now been down at Butler Tires for 2 hours, my car is in the air, Butler Tires is looking for direction from me so they can finish what they started and Mike is telling me it could be weeks before I could get a new tire because of the Toyo warranty process. I got off the phone with Mike and asked Butler Tires if they had a tire they could replace it with, because if they did, I would just buy it from them to get the car road worthy and deal with CruizinConcepts later. Well, they didn’t and they told me it would take them a day or so because the 275/35/20 is not one they keep in stock. So I told them to just reinstall everything and do the best they could. Once they got done with the car, I went inside and paid my $155.00 bill!! This was the charge for road forcing, high speed balancing, and “indexing” the bad rims/tires. I left Butler Tires and got back on the interstate to head home. While I could at least drive the car, it was still shaking obsessively. I called Mike and told him I needed this fixed and wanted to know what I had to do. He asked how everything felt and I told him that it was still shaking. He asked if it was any better, I said yes, and then he asked me if it was good enough to last me until I needed another set of tires, because he would make sure I was taken care of the next time. I immediately said no, and that this needed to be fixed now. Conversation went on for awhile as I drove home and I again told him that I would bring him the car and take him for a ride so he could see for himself how bad it was….and once again he said no, that we would just need to figure something out. During our entire conversation he kept telling me what a pain it was going to be to swap out this tire and that if it was the rear rim causing the problem it would be much easier. Apparently Shelby’s return policy is great and that would make Mike’s life much better, in lieu of his Toyo guy, which requires much more work. I got off the phone with Mike and called Butler Tires back to double check their findings and ask if replacing the rear rim would help. My guy at Butler Tires said no, the rim was just fine and that I needed a new tire. He asked me why I was questioning that and I told him apparently Toyo tires are a pain in the rear to warranty and get replaced. He agreed, and then said it was just something they were going to have to do because the tire was bad. I called Mike back and we eventually worked it out so that I would pull off both the front passenger side rim/tire and the rear driver side rim/tire and meet later that night so he could take them back to his shop and see what the problem was. I was somewhat confused now, because I had just spent $155.00 of my own money to get my rims/tires fixed after being told by him there was nothing he could do and now he wants to take them back to his shop and check them. We met later that night. I gave him the rims/tires and he told me he would get in touch with me tomorrow, because he was thinking that it was the rear rim that was no good and not the rear tire as Butler Tires was saying, and that he had more rims at his shop. Before leaving I asked him if he would mind bringing the rims/tires to my house next time, because I wanted to install everything with him there and then the both of us go for a ride to check everything out together. No questions asked, he agreed. After getting home from meeting Mike, I decided to take the car out on the interstate with some stock GT500 wheels and tires installed. I drove it for several miles at all speeds from 60mph-85mph and it was just as good as I remembered it. I did this to make sure it wasn’t the car, because Mike had made some comments earlier about my lowering the car and asking me if I thought it could be the issue. The car was fine. Tuesday, 20-Oct-09 – Mike called me and said that he had swapped out the front passenger side rim and rear driver side rim because they were both bad, and then said it was a first. He said the rear Toyo tire was just fine and that I had gotten 2 bad rims and that all was good now. So, being skeptical at this point, he brought the rims/tires to my house and I swapped everything back out. As I swapped everything, I asked Mike to please let me know if I needed to do something differently than how I was…I even showed him the rotors where I removed those pesky clips that cause the rims to not mount flush, resulting in vibration issues. As I was working, Mike made reference once again wishing I had never gone down to Butler Tires and I kindly reminded him, once again, that I only did that because when I called him first, he told me that there was nothing he could do. We dropped that subject. I got everything swapped out and we went for a ride on the interstate. First with the top down, which anyone with a convertible probably knows that the car can have some body shake because there’s no roof to stabilize the car, and then with the top up. With the top down, we drove South on interstate 575 for a few miles and couldn’t feel anything “obsessive” coming from the rims/tires. I then told him I wanted to put the top up and come back up the interstate to double check everything, he agreed. I took the next exit ramp and with the light red, I put the top and windows up. We then got back on interstate 575 heading North for a few miles. As soon as the car got to 60mph-65mph there was a very apparent rim/tire shake. I looked at Mike and asked him if he felt it and he agreed that he did. He asked me my opinion about it and I told him that I honestly could not tell (feel) where the vibration was coming from. All I knew was that it was shaking and only got worse the faster I drove. On the way back to my house I looked at Mike and asked him what his thoughts were and he didn’t really have an answer. He did ask me again if I was sure there was nothing wrong with my car. I reassured him that it was good and told him that I was very mad at myself for not insisting us go for a ride with the stock rims/tires on so he could see for himself that everything with the car was indeed ok. When we got back to my house, the only suggestion I knew to make was for Mike to take the 2 opposite rims/tires back to his shop and have them checked. He got on the phone with his GM (I believe) and I started jacking up the rear passenger side of the car….he quickly put his hand up in sort of a “stop” motion. I looked at him and shook my head no, and told him that this wasn’t right, that I’m not leaving these rims/tires on the car and they needed to be fixed. After a few minutes, he got off the phone and told me to go ahead and remove them because he was going to take the rims/tires with him and have everything checked. As I swapped the Super Snake rims/tires back over to the stock rims/tires, again, he started telling me that his GM has been in the business for a very long time and that he said Toyo tires will sometimes have a shake to them in the beginning and that they require a lot more “driving time” than just going up and down the interstate several times to work the shake out….something about the bands inside??? I told Mike I had never heard of that one before and that when I had the Toyo Proxe 4’s on my 2005 Mustang GT (255/35/20’s up-front & 295/30/20’s out-back) they were perfect. The only thing I ever had to deal with was rounding the flat spots out after the car would sit all week…but even that only took a mile or so, then they were perfect again. Mike left and took the 2 rims/tires with him and I finished replacing the other rims/tires with the stockers. When I got finished, I once again, took the car out on the interstate (with the top up) to double check that my new car was ok….and it was! Once again, I drove at all speeds from 60mph – 85mph, and once again, it was just as good as I had remembered. Later that night, I decided to call Toyo directly and explain my dilemma. I asked if they had any recent bad runs with tires and they told me no. I mentioned to them about what I was being told about possibly having to drive the car with the new rims/tires much further (and longer) than up and down the intestate to work the shake out. They quietly laughed on the other end of the phone, told me they were sorry about my situation and that was not true. They said that the tires are either going to be good or bad…if they start out shaking, they do not fix themselves. I personally have never heard of anything like this before, so all I can do at this point is believe the manufacturer (opinions are welcome). Wednesday, 21-Oct-09 – I called Mike around noon to get an update with the rims/tires he had taken with him yesterday and he told me that the rear passenger rim/tire was good so they didn’t really make any changes with it, but the front driver side rim needed replacing. He said that when they spun it on their machine, it had a little bit of an up and down movement to it, so they just replaced it. He also went on to tell me that his GM said that this would be it, because now they had personally spun all the rims, rechecked everything and to them all the rims/tires were good. If I put the rims/tires on the car and have any more shaking that I would just have to give the tires more “driving time” to balance everything out. Mike was now, again, telling me that everything was good and that I shouldn’t have any problems. Hearing that, I had to question Mike’s statement of “everything being good”, because that’s what I was told over and over again on Monday when I originally called with my car shaking and now here we are 3 days later and I ended up needing 3 brand new Alcoa Super Snake rims because my originals were no good!? Mike clarified things and said no, originally all they did was just put the tires on the rims, balance everything out and deliver them. They didn’t specifically spin each rim to check for roundness. This time, they apparently took the tires off each of the rims, spun them on their machine by themselves to check for roundness and then re-installed/balanced everything. Once again, just for clarification purposes, I asked if they had road force checked them and was told no because they didn’t have the equipment to do that. Mike ended the conversation by telling me that he would call me back later that afternoon to discuss a delivery time for tomorrow because he’s got to catch back up on the work he’s missed, which I could only understand too well, because I have also lost 1 ½ days of work trying to get this squared away. I never heard back from Mike. Thursday, 22-Oct-09 – Since I didn’t hear back from Mike last night, I sent him a text at 10:00am, seeing what the plan for today was going to be. I called Mike at 12:30pm because he never responded to my text or called me. When he answered the phone, he made the comment about meeting tomorrow (Friday) morning, not this morning…maybe I misunderstood what heard yesterday? He explained that they were really busy and short handed at the moment. He asked me how I felt about that, and I explained that it was suppose to rain all day tomorrow and I really didn’t want to do everything in the rain. He agreed and said that he would call me back in a little bit and try to schedule coming to my house later today. I told him that would be much better. It got to be 5:00pm and I still had not heard back from Mike. I was getting a little concerned because I knew how far away he was and how long it would take him to get to my house, then once he got here, we were going to go for an initial ride with all the stock wheels on the car so he could see that my car was indeed not the problem, then come back to my house and swap everything over to the Alcoa’s and go out for another ride to check for any vibrations. I got in touch with him and he reassured me that he was definitely going to be coming to my house later and was about to leave in the next few minutes. Before arriving to my house he called and said that he honestly didn’t have time to go out for an initial ride with all the stock wheels and tires on the car and that he’d just take my word for it and if I could have the car ready when he got there he would really appreciate it. I told him that I appreciated him trusting me and that the car would have the 2 rims/tires on it that I already had and that it would be waiting on him with the other 2. He got to my house and I quickly installed the new rims/tires that he brought with him. We got the car out and went straight to the interstate. As soon as I got to 60mph-65mph I quickly noticed that there was a vibration. It was better than before, but there was still an apparent vibration. This time I felt it in my rear, which made me think it was in the rear of the car, but I could also feel it in the steering wheel. As I drove up and down the interstate, I told Mike to grab the steering wheel and let me know if he could feel it, he agreed that he could. I asked Mike over and over again if he could feel anything what-so-ever on his side and he told me no, that it felt smooth??

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[05 Mustang]

I took the car home and parked it. Mike asked my thoughts and the only thing I could think to suggest was swapping out the rear Alcoa’s with the stock GT500 rims/tires and taking the car out for a drive to start narrowing down where the vibration was exactly coming from. If swapping out the rears didn’t help, then I would put the Alcoa’s back on the rear and swap out the front rims/tires with the stock GT500’s. I told Mike that’s the only thing left I knew to do. While Mike and I stood there talking and thinking, we decided to make a call to a 3rd party friend (someone that both Mike & I know and trust) to explain what was going on and see what they thought. The 3rd party person listened to everything and acknowledged that while low profile tires will ride differently and transfer inconsistencies from the road in a rougher manner, they should not cause a car to vibrate on a perfectly smooth road. The 3rd party person even mentioned that he is currently running lower profile tires than what is on my car and that his ride is smooth as glass! Mike told the 3rd party person that 3 of the 4 rims had already been replaced and the tires checked. The 3rd party person asked Mike how were the tires checked, were they road forced? Mike told him no, that they were not road forced and that they don’t believe in it.

Mike and I eventually got off the phone with our 3rd party person and started talking. He kept telling me that he thought it was the car, being a convertible and/or being lowered that was causing all the problems. When I heard him mention the convertible and being lowered part, I asked him, then why wasn’t he feeling anything on his side of the car. If the problem was related to either of those things, the vibration/shaking would be noticeable at all 4 corners (both sides) of the car, and it was only on my side….the side where the rear driver’s side tire was a “46” on Butler Tire’s road force machine….the tire that Mike said was just fine and adamant about not replacing. Before leaving Mike mentioned giving me a set of Nitto tires to replace the Toyo’s, but there again, what if something was still not right, because, in my opinion, they don’t have the advanced technology to test the tires.

After Mike left I had to run inside and help the wife get my son to bed. As I was inside, Mike’s boss, Greg, called me. He left me a very nice message saying that he really wanted to talk with me (at my convenience), get this situation resolved to both of our satisfaction, and even mentioned returning them. I tried calling back, but unfortunately I was too late, they had already left for the night. I left Greg a really nice, long winded, message telling him how much I appreciated the call, that I was sorry I missed his, and that I would really like to speak with him about this situation. I told him that I am a big fan of Mike and CruizinConcepts and that I am always going to bat for them on the forums and would really like to continue that relationship with them. In my message I also thanked him for mentioning the return, but really wanted to save that option as a last resort, because I really like the rims/tires and would love to get this resolved…heck, I have now spent $200+ this week ($155 at Butler Tire + 1 complete full tank of gas driving all around) out of my own pocket to try and make these rims/tires work on my car on top of the money I paid for them.

After I left the message, Amanda, my wife, kind of got mad at me for saying that I wanted to continue trying to make this work. She reminded me that I had not only already went above our budget to buy the rims/tires that are now not even working correctly, but I am continuing to spend our money to try and get what should already be right, fixed. She said that she wished I would have discussed Greg’s message with her, because at this point she really wanted me to just get the money back. I told her that I couldn’t take the message back, but I would speak to them in the morning, mention what we had just talked about and go from there.

The only other option I could think of at this point was to have Mike take only the tires back and refund me the money on them, let me keep the rims, since they were all supposedly good at this point and buy some new tires locally. That would keep Mike, CruizinConcepts and I in good standing and put any type of tire issue on whatever local shop I went to. I decided I would at least throw that option out at Mike to see what he says.

Friday, 23-Oct-09 – Mike called me at 9:30am to ask me for a credit card number for refunding my money. I told him about everything my wife and I had discussed last night after he had left my house and I had left his boss my message. I told him that I can not spend any more of my own money trying to get this fixed, that I was really wanting to make things work, but maybe a refund was what we needed to do. He mentioned to me that the rims would be fully refundable, but I could possibly have to pay a restocking fee on the tires. I told him that wasn’t right and that I shouldn’t have to pay anything. He explained that would be a worst case scenario, but wanted to make me aware that it was possible. I reminded him that I have already lost $200+ this week trying to make his product work and that I should not have to lose anymore money. He said that he would go to bat for me and talk to his boss, Greg, to see what he could do. He asked me that if he could get everything fixed for me would I mind making a comment on the forums about how he took care of things. I told him no, that I would rather keep what happened between us and that what I would do is continue to stand behind him and CruizinConcepts. He agreed that was fair.

Well, change of events. I talked to Mike at 2:15pm and he told me that I was basically stuck with the rims/tires. I was told that there would be a restocking fee on the entire purchase because everything was now used and would not be sold as new. I told him I understood his position, but that it was completely unfair for me because it is not right and has not been right since the beginning. After hearing this, I started asking specific questions and explaining that I had been documenting my whole experience for the past week just in case things got to point that they were currently at. When Mike heard this, the conversation, in my opinion, proceeded to get very heated so we mutually agreed to end it so I could speak to his boss, Greg. Things had gone in such a 180 degree direction since Greg’s message last night and Mike’s call this morning, I needed to find out where I stood, because I was now “gun-shy” on trying anything else and was now wanting a complete refund.

I called and got Greg on the phone. After explaining his position, certifications and how long he has been in the business, as well as everyone else’s on his staff, he proceeded to tell me that my car is probably riding exactly how he would expect a lowered, convertible GT500 on 20’s to ride and that he would be completely shocked if there was anything wrong. He said that my expectations were probably higher than what they should have been and that I just have a car that is not going to ride perfect. I explained that I have had a few sets of 20” rims/tires in the past on my lowered 2005 Mustang GT and that I never had any issues with it…and the rear tires were actually a lower profile that what I was currently running now. Greg told me that the GT500 was approx. 1,300-1,400lbs heavier than a 05-09 GT coupe and that me trying to compare my GT and GT500 was like comparing apples and oranges. He then also explained to me about how Toyo Proxe tires require many miles put of them to help remedy any abnormal inconsistencies that might be in the tire. I told him that I remembered Mike mentioning that to me the other night and that I didn’t know what to say about that. I did tell him that after Mike left my house that night I took in upon myself to research that statement by calling Toyo directly and that they thought it was a very untrue statement. Greg basically argued Toyo’s comments and said that he knew what he was talking about. Once again, I wasn’t going to argue something I honestly knew nothing about, so I just agreed with him.

Greg then asked if I would like to talk to one of his lead technicians, Wayne, to get his take on things. He once again kindly explained to me his age, certifications and that he has been doing this probably longer than I have been around and that he could offer another a really good perspective on things. I personally felt that this was pointless, because what employee is going to get on the phone and tell a customer anything other than what their boss was saying…but what the heck, I agreed. Wayne was a very nice person to talk to that basically said everything I had assumed he was going to say about my car and that it being a convertible, lowered, and having 20” rims/tires was causing my problems. We talked a little bit longer about his cars, the rims/tires he was running and the types of ride quality he had. When I felt we had talked long enough, I kindly asked if I could speak with Greg again. Greg got back on the phone and we just continued to agree to disagree. In the end I asked him for his email address because I felt we were at the point where nothing more was going to come from this conversation. I told him that I was planning on sending him some documentation that I had been putting together about my whole experience with CruizinConcepts. He asked me to elaborate more and I tried to kindly, in a nice, round-about way explain that what I have been putting together was not meant to be threatening, but more or less a “buyer beware” for future buyers. I believe I told him that if I had to do it over again that I would have only bought the Shelby Super Snake Rims from him without the tires and that I would have instead bought the tires locally from a tire shop. That way, if and when any tire issues came up, I could take the car back to the local tire shop in lieu of doing what I had to do now. After that, our conversation went back and forth for some time where Greg made very nice comments about me and that he appreciated me being polite and calm during this whole process and that it said a lot about me. I thanked him and told him that I am a big believer in treating people the way that I want to be treated and that I believe a person will get more with honey than vinegar. I felt that even though I was in a very bad predicament at this point with CruizinConcepts, what good would it do for me to yell, threaten and be ugly to him. He appreciated it.

From there, Greg started talking about us trying to get together at a 3rd party location in the next couple of days to try and get this resolved once and for all. He said that he would call around and find a shop that would check all of the rims/tires on my car with all of us there as witnesses. This would allow us to put the whole situation to rest. He asked me my opinion and I was very hesitant at first. Not sure why, but ultimately decided that it has to be done. I asked him what his plans were exactly and he told me that he wanted to find a local Discount Tire type shop that we could meet at and have check everything. I asked about road forcing and he said no. I eventually agreed to it and he told me to call him back later. He told me he would start working on finding a local place for us to meet.

I called back around 6:30pm and left Greg a message about us meeting to get the rims/tires checked. About 30 minutes later I received a call from Alex with CruizinConcepts. He informed me that they had located 2 Discount Tire shops in our general area and that they would call me on Monday morning to schedule a time.

After hearing that we were possible going to be meeting at a Discount Tires, I decided to call the one right down the road from me that takes care of my wife’s Expedition.

I called and talked to Steven. I told him what was going on and asked him to explain their entire rim/tire balancing process. After being on the phone for a fair amount of time, Steven offered, at no charge, to take a look at the rim/tire that has been in question the whole entire time, the rear driver’s side. He told me that if I removed it from the car and brought it down to him, he would check everything out for me. I agreed and thanked him.

Saturday, 24-Oct-09 – I removed the rear driver’s side rim/tire and took it down to Steven. When I arrived, he immediately stopped what he was doing to help me out. He took the rim/tire to his balance machine and started his process, explaining everything to me step by step. He took all the measurements of everything and spun the rim/tire. You could immediately see the “up & down” movement of the rim/tire. From there, he showed me on his machine that the rim I had was basically perfect, which left only the tire. He moved the rim/tire back and forth on his machine pointing out the highest spot of the tire as it went past a certain spot on the machine and that is was reading as being a .057. I asked him what that meant and he told me that the reading we should be getting should be in the area of .01….which was much lower that the .057 that my tire was reading. He looked at me and validated what Butler Tires had said from the very beginning, which was that the tire was out of round and needed to be replaced. He told me that based on these numbers his machine was showing that my car would shake…regardless of it being a convertible, lowered and having 20” rims/tires. I thanked Steven and left.

When I got home, I called CruizinConcepts. Unfortunately it was before business hours so I left a message. I did not say anything about what I had just done, because I still wanted all of us to meet on Monday and I didn’t want anything to stop that, but what I did do was ask for Greg to please bring a new Toyo Proxe 4 275/35/20 tire with him. I said that if and when we meet, I would like to at least have a new rear tire there as a worst case scenario…since the rear tire has been in question the whole entire time. I said that if I needed it, I would like to go ahead and get this problem resolved instead of continuing to prolong the inevitable. I never heard back from anyone.

Monday, 26-Oct-09 – I never heard from anyone at CruizinConcepts this morning, so just after 12:00pm I decided to call. Unfortunately, I got Greg’s voicemail. I left him a message explaining that it was me and that I was just wondering what the plans were for today because I would really like to get this matter resolved. I left my work number and asked him to please call me when he got a chance.

I still had not heard anything by 4:00pm today, so I decided to call Toyo directly again. I ended up talking to Shaun. I described my situation to her to see if she had any suggestions for me. She said the only thing she could suggest was moving on to a warranty claim with Toyo directly, since I felt CruizinConcepts was not going to offer any help. She explained to me that I would have to buy a new tire upfront from a local Toyo dealer and send back the bad one from my car. Once the bad tire was received by Toyo, the tread would be measured and it would tested. When I heard the tire tread would be measured, I asked what she meant and she told me that Toyo tires have to be with-in a certain tread usage. If the tire was indeed “out of round”, Toyo’s warranty was only good to the 1st 32nds of tread left on the tire. If the tire had more tread than that missing, the tire could not be warranted. Hearing that, I laughed and told Shaun that I guess I’m going to have to pull the rim/tire yet another time, because I had already put several miles on them with all the driving around I had done last week trying to get everything fixed and prove that they were not right to Mike. I now only hope that I didn’t drive too much!

Tuesday, 27-Oct-09 – I received a call from Alex at CruizinConcepts this morning at 10:30am. He apologized for not calling yesterday, told me that they have been extremely busy getting ready for SEMA this week and that they would not be able to get to me until 2 weeks. I questioned the 2 weeks, because I have already waited almost a 1 ½ weeks for this to be fixed and now they were wanting me to wait another 2 before we just meet and look over things…..and there was still no guarantee that they were going to replace the tire. I thought this was very unfair!!

At this point I was very disappointed and upset. I decided to call the local Toyo dealer that Shaun at Toyo had recommended. It was Kauffman Tire off of Highway 92 in Woodstock, Georgia. I called and spoke to Todd about my situation and he asked me if I could bring the rim/tire in question to him so he could see what has been causing me so much grief…I told him I would.

I arrived at Kauffman Tire at about 1:00pm and immediately spoke to Todd. He came over and measured the tread and said that there was still 9/32nds of tread still on the tire and that it looked like it hadn’t even been driven on…..which I confirmed because I wasn’t going to drive my car around until it was correct. I then proceeded to tell him that both Butler Tire and Steven with Discount Tire checked the rim/tire and they both agreed that I had a bad tire. I even showed Todd the mark on the back of the tire that Steven had made with chalk, pointing out the high (bad) spot of the tire. As soon as he heard and saw everything, he immediately looked at Bryant behind the counter and told him to get on the phone and order me a new Toyo Proxe 4 275/35/20, no questions asked!!! He said that since Butler Tire and Discount Tire both agreed that the tire was bad, there was no since in him trying to prove what 2 other separate companies had already done. He also said that it appeared I had already been through enough up to this point with CruizinConcepts and that he was just going to get me taken care of once and for all! Not only that, but when we discussed rebalancing everything to make sure that the rims/tires were indeed good, Bryant told me that he was only going to charge me $60 instead of $80, because of all the money this whole situation had already cost me. I was completely amazed!! Here was a company that I didn’t buy a single thing from, but yet they were doing everything in their power to help me out and turn the horrible situation I had been through into something positive. I couldn’t thank them enough. All I could do is tell them that I was a member of a local car club here in Northwest Georgia and I would do everything in my power to let people know what they had done for me. I called Todd back later that night and thanked him again. Words could not describe what he and Bryant had done for me that day.

Wednesday, 28-Oct-09 – I received a call from Alex with CruizinConcepts today around 2:15pm. He left a message telling me that he had extensive conversations with basically everyone in the office and even though they are currently running around getting ready for SEMA, he just wanted to get me situated, basically get me out of his hair (he literally left that statement, word for word, in a message on my phone!) He told me that he was going to arrange a new tire to replace the rear driver’s side tire that I have been having so much trouble with and that it was going to be my responsibility to get everything taken care of because they already had too much invested in this and that if it still vibrates after that, it’s mine and they can’t do anything about it. He told me someone would be back in touch with me….I never heard back from anyone.

I decided to continue letting Kauffman Tire resolve this for me. At this point, they seemed to have more of a positive attitude in helping me.

Thursday, 29-Oct-09 – I received a call from Bryant this afternoon letting me know that my tire was in. We scheduled an appointment for Friday.

Friday, 30-Oct-09 – I pulled off all of the rims/tires and took them down to Kauffman Tires since it was raining. I was going to not only get the 1 tire replaced, but I was going to pay them to recheck all the other rims/tires. Since CruizinConcepts had replaced all the other rims, they basically undid everything I paid Butler Tires to do. Now I wasn’t going to be happy until everything was rechecked. One by one, they checked all the rims/tires in front of me and as far as the balancing went, 3 out of 4 were perfect and the other 1 was just a hair off, but when they went to road force them, they all had issues. You could stand there and watch them all have an obsessive “up & down” movement. I asked how the road force could be so bad when the balancing was dead on and I was told that anybody could balance an egg, doesn’t mean it’s going to roll properly once on the car.

Well, they replaced 1 back tire and “indexed” the other, making them both good to go, but I was being told that the front tires now needed to be replaced. They apparently started out in the 50’s on the road force and after “indexing”, they could only get them down to somewhere in the 30’s. Once again, this was completely unacceptable. I was completely caught off guard at this point, because to my knowledge the front tires were never an issue, but then remembered CruizinConcepts had taken them back and replaced the rims….but didn’t think that could have any affect like this on the tires, unless the new rims I got back had new tires mounted on them in lieu of getting back my other ones?? I honestly had no idea. I tried calling Mike, it went straight to voicemail, and then tried calling Alex, sat on hold for about 8-9 minutes and then finally hung up.

Todd and I sat down to discuss my situation and I immediately told him that at this point I didn’t care anymore, I just want this fixed. He told me to calm down, because he was going to talk to his district manager, who just happened to be there. After several minutes of watching them talk in the back, Todd came back, told me not to worry about anything and that there were going to replace both my front tires at no charge! As far as they were concerned, the tires were no good and they were going to warranty them with Toyo for me. He got on the computer and saw that their Cumming, Georgia store had several of the 255/35/20’s on hand. He said that he’d order them for me and that he’d have them in by next Tuesday. I laughed and asked if there was any way I could go pick them up myself, because Cumming, GA was only about 45 minutes away and I really wanted to get this fixed. He told me no problem and called the other store manager to let him know that I was on my way. I told Todd that I was going to try and make it back before they closed, but wasn’t sure if that was really possible. We agreed that if I couldn’t make it back before they closed, I would just come back tomorrow morning.

Saturday, 31-Oct-09 – I arrived at Kauffman Tires at 8:00am and off loaded the new tires. They got everything mounted and balanced and said that I was all good. When it came time to go and take care of my bill, they told me not to worry about it. They felt that I had already been through enough at this point and they were just glad to assist in getting my terrible situation resolved. I was completely amazed….I didn’t know what to say. Todd told me that when I get everything installed and it stopped raining to come back down and we’d go for a test drive together to double check everything….but after personally seeing them balance and road force everything, I doubted there would be any issues. I went home and reinstalled everything on the car.

Sunday, 01-Nov-09 – I drove the car on the interstate for the first time and even though I was nervous about how it was going to be, once I got it up to speed, it was great. I had the typical shake that I was used too, but no rim/tire vibration.

Monday, 02-Nov-09 – I went down to Kauffman Tire and picked up Todd. Even though everything felt great, he wanted a ride in the car. So we went for a ride with the top down and with the top up. It was great in both cases. I even let Todd drive the car and he was completely amazed at how comfortable the car was and how nice of a ride the car had.

As everyone can imagine, I was finally excited that my car was good.

[mdg]

After reading this, I'll keep my stock tires/wheels. Good luck getting this resolved.

[antonio1988]

wow, that is what I call a story! This is unacceptable, and to top it off I have seen two major complaints against Cruizin Concepts in less than a week, I'm starting to reconsider if I should ever do business with them...

[Black Man]

WOW 2 weeks of pure hell, 05 you're much calmer than me. CC has a bad taste in my mouth, got your money and ran, giving every available 20 yr experience excuse. Sad. Glad everything worked out for ya.

[TEXASGT/CS]

Do you have this in cliff notes. holy long post batman. sounds to me like you went over and above what a customer should have had to do. Hard to believe that CC acted the way they did. Hope you are truley happy and did not just give in due to the extreme hassle. Customer service is just not what it used to be. Good luck.

[mb2]

What a horrible expierence! Sorry to hear that man! Glad that they were able to fix that for you and did it for free at that!

[05 Mustang]

Originally Posted by Black Man

WOW 2 weeks of pure hell, 05 you're much calmer than me. CC has a bad taste in my mouth, got your money and ran, giving every available 20 yr experience excuse. Sad. Glad everything worked out for ya.

honestly Black Man, I used to be short tempered and I eventually learned over time that it got me no where, even faster, in situations like this.

I guess over time I learned staying calm, being fair, looking at a problem fom both sides and thinking things through helped more than blowing my top.

[CutterWolf]

And now you all know the rest of the story.......... I will back Cam up 100% on this.

[05 Mustang]

Originally Posted by TEXASGT/CS

Do you have this in cliff notes. holy long post batman. sounds to me like you went over and above what a customer should have had to do. Hard to believe that CC acted the way they did. Hope you are truley happy and did not just give in due to the extreme hassle. Customer service is just not what it used to be. Good luck.

yeah, I'm sorry for such a long post.

I'll admit, when I received that call from Alex telling me I would have to wait another 2 weeks, that's when I decided I was going to get this resolved at any cost. Toyo had already told me that if the tires were indeed bad I would be reimbursed.

I wasn't worried because the tires were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be bad, so worst case I'd had to front the money for new tires, then wait to get it back. I figured driving around in my car and waiting for my money to come back is better than watching my car sit for a month?

Originally Posted by mb2

What a horrible expierence! Sorry to hear that man! Glad that they were able to fix that for you and did it for free at that!

Thanks, Kauffman Tires definitely stepped up and helped me out!!