neo8222

Ok so first off this is not a HOW DO I DO THIS???? thread, I have a 351W in my garage and the information I've collected over time from the forums. My goal for the build is a simple 300 hp and torque on the motor for a starter.

Now down to the project at hand. The 351 came out of a early 70's (I believe 72-74) Ford LTD (STILL RUNNING AND DRIVING) that being the case I'm assuming the motor is a good candidate for a rebuild. As soon as I can find a motor stand I'm going to rip it down and take it to the machine shop. This is going to be a budget build with a more power build later down the road from now, probably after I pay off my motorcycle. Factory specs on this motor are a decent enough 270ish torque with a pitiful 160 hp, That just will not do.

My plans are to have the heads shaved to get the compression ratio from a 8:1 to around a 10.5:1 if I can, swap for a better cam, better intake and a 4 barrel carb vs the POS 2 barrel on it now.

Now some questions, I have been told the bell housing for my T-5 will fit onto the 351W, is this true? (I'm aware of the limitations of the t-5 and I'm on top of that part, don't worry)

Second, I was planning on getting the K member from a 95GT to bolt in the motor to my car, will my suspension bolt into that k member? If I understand correctly the only difference in the K members from 94-04 is the motor mounts, correct?

Lastly for now, is some suggestions, Since I'm going carburetor, I'm going to need some sort of ignition box to fire it all off, What are your opinions on a good unit?

I'm also up for suggestions on a cam, I believe the motor is a hydraulic flat tappet, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I don't have a problem adjusting the lash so that's not my concern. My question is will such a plethora of cams out there how much is to much for a primarily street driven car? (in other words what would you call a good cam for it?)

I've also been looking at Zoom products flywheel for the motor, anyone have a review of zoom flywheels?

I will definitely have other query's later on but for now this is all i can think of, also to get a wider range of responses i have posted this in more than one section.

ESG-642T

Hopefully you have no inspection because you won't pass with a carb'd motor in you car.

You won't get that kind of bump in C/R from shaving the heads for forget that idea.

I would suggest going EFI on that motor, and swapping to a roller cam.

The K member will work

Your going to have to by-pass pats, and do some wiring if you want the gauges to work, and well if your not going to swap a good set of heads, cams, and intakes, your going to add more weight and be slower than currently

LilRoush

My first thought is call your insurance company and make sure they'll cover you. Although most up the rates on a V8 swap, because you are going carb and removing the pollution control, it's technically not a street legal car. Many refuse to insure those.

neo8222

Yeah the state doesn't have smog checks at all so I'm good there and the insurance isn't an issue. The first stage is a budget build and I've been talking to a few machine shops around here that tell me they can help me squeeze the 300hp and tq I want out of it with stock heads. I've been trying to talk to this guy about buying his engine stand from him but he's not really replying back so that's the thing I'm waiting on at the moment.

I can disable the PATS with no issue with my tuner so i don't think that will be an issue but in any case the PATS works by disabling the fuel pump right?

I found out some more interesting information I didn't expect. that motor didn't start life in the LTD it came from the "engineering department" according to the engine build number and the label had the year code at D8 so 1978 which is 6 years after the car was made. The other interesting fact is that someone at some point added a roller cam. It also seems to be fairly recently judging from the amount of wear on the rocker it self. Here's the code from the label if anyone can decode the whole thing: D8AE-9C485-NA

neo8222

-UPDATE-

Got more good news, the motor is on a stand and I started yanking things off it, got one of the heads off and turns out the motor has already been bored out and sleeved, and practically no wear on the either. Pistons look good from the top, I'll have to wait till I have the heads cleaned to find the part number and measure the valves so I can find out what I have with them. Only issue so far is the lifters are mushroomed so I'm going to have to push them through the engine and drop them out of the bottom end. So far it seems like a quality rebuild was done before I got the motor. Tomorrow I hope to crack the oil pan off then I will really find out what I got. My friend got picture of it so I'll get him to send them and I will post them.

jthorn9

OK...you just posted a 5.0/5.8L question in the V6 forums, only 2 or 3 members in this section have enough knowledge to answer this question.....


With that said here is what I would do...rebuild the motor and convert from flat tappet to roller cam. Not a hard conversion, you just need a roller cam, push rods, and hydrollic rollers. These cams are better for power and are over all easier on the valve train.

Once that's done I'd do a Steeda #18 cam...great for a mild build yet still being streetable. It's a modern dual stage cam that doesn't cost a fortune.

For heads I'd like into AFR heads, probably the best heads to put on a 351. To get 10.1 compression however I'm not sure what cc head would be best, so you'll have to ask around and do some research.

For the intake skip the carburated systems, fuel injected makes more power and doesn't drain the pocket book like carbed systems do, however extensive tuning would be needed to get your ecu to work with a fuel injected 351. You may need to just get the wiring harness and ECU out of a 87-93 Mustang. I have a 95 GT ecu I'd sell you for dirt cheap if you want, but if you go with a 95 I'd skip the Steeda #18 cam and go with the Steeda #19 cam. The 94/95 ECUs are very sensitive to cam settings and are programmed with a 115* lobe separation in mind, 87-93 ECUs are a little more flexible and are set to a 113* separation. While a 113* cam will work with a 94/95 ecu, some people have slight issues with the fuel mixture at idel as well as minor odd ball idel issues.

Now back on track, for the intake I'd look at a holley systemax or eddlebrock or trickflow intake. None of the three are all that pricie but make great power. For fuel you would need 24lb fuel injectors. To compensate you could get a Cobra ecu out of a 94/95 (like I did which is why I have my GT ecu laying around) or you could get a Pro M Maf calibrated for 24lbers. Both ways are fine but the Cobra ECU works best because the MAF sends false information to the ECU so that it compensates for the fuel injector size difference. These MAFs WILL cause your car to run rich and some tuning will be needed to fix the issue. If no, you'll make around 10 or more less rwhp untuned. Think of the 05+ Mustangs and their excessive factory rich settings kind of rich here.

All in all you won't spend a ton here as all these parts are easy to find and dirt cheap, new or used. Most of your money will be spent adapting your car to hold and run a much older V8.

You should also look in the 5.0 section at the 5.0 to 351 swap as you would need to do very similar things, and then some to achieve the swap.

neo8222

I know that it's the 3.8 section and all but the main reason I posted it because this is also going to be my build thread. Something for others to see that a V8 swap can be done fairly cheaply. I also have another thread on the topic in the general tech section but I didn't think about the 5.0 section, I guess I'll pop in and see what they have to say.

Now to the fuel injection subject. Down the road I do plan on swapping to fuel injection. The swap will take place with my 408 stroker build which will be down the road from now in a year or two if life goes to plans... (haha).

I understand how much better a roller cam is vs the flat tappet counter part however this is my budget build. Main thing is Im trying to stay under $1000 for parts(mainly because I was talking to a guy that told me I couldn't do it, and I want to show him with the right kinda work it can be done.)

This is the cam i was looking at http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL35-238-3/

I'm thinking a 600CFM carb with a decent aluminum intake, porting the heads, and that cam will get me at my 300 torque and HP I was looking for. If I have the money I may pick up a set of GT-40 heads from the mustang show this coming up march. I figure that will be a nice little upgrade for it.

That being the case I don't think I will be needing the ECU right now. However I AM looking for a set of 5.0 exhaust headers, short or long I don't care at the moment but I want those nasty, ugly, heavy iron manifolds gone, haha.

jthorn9

You should of told me 3 months ago, I would of sold you my entire roller assembly out my 5.0 lol.

Just look on ebay and get a used roller assembly. Unless they came out of a motor with crazy miles there isn't much to go wrong there. I'm sure you could find the whole thing for $50 or less.

That is a good dual stage cam and has similar specs to the Steeda #18 cam. The steeda cam has slightly different numbers in the lift department but very close to that.

Just keep in mind one very important thing with the cam. Make sure that the lift doesn't exceed .520 with 1.6 rockers because if it does you will need heavy duty springs and possibly different push rods. So be sure to pay very close attention to all of that.

If you're doing an "econo build" then AFR heads are out the question but I wouldn't use the heads that came on that block, they're part the reason why it made such poor horse power.

It's nearly a sin to do so but look for a set of GT-40 or GT-40P heads to put on there. They're a dime a dozen and can be bought cheap. They are cast iron so they do take longer to port, but I'd port mactch them to get the best out of them. The GT-40 style heads will make the 351 a torque monster and will add a little bit more power over the stock heads. Just keep in mind that GT-40 heads are mainly designed with the 302 in mind so they're not the best thing for a 351 but will get the job done.

Just look on ebay for all the parts, they're all over the place. I would however spend a little extra and get the carb new because used carbs can bring you somebody elses old problems. The lower intake you can get used just make sure it looks good and that the threads aren't worn like mine were that needed to be retaped.

Now as far as the T-5 bolting up, it will bolt up however your T-5 is slightly different than the world class and heavy duty T-5s used in the 5.0s. I'm not sure how the difference in the input shafts will effect it mounting to the motor nor do I know the difference in how the cheaper components will respond to torque loads higher than what the basic T-5 is designed to handle. In short your transmission will be the severe weak spot in this build and one to be highly concerned about.

neo8222

I wish I knew this was the plan 3 months ago then lol. I would like to find a decent set of long tube headers if I can but i may have to go with the shorties for the moment.

That's why I'm not trying to make a whole lot of power yet. When I had the transmission apart last time I checked the tag on it and it was a world class T-5 rated at over 300 ft lbs of torque, it might not be the original to the car though (I know its NOT a "z" spec though). Last owners did some tweaking to the car before I got it. As long as I don't put super sticky tires on it and launch it I'm thinking I'll be fine. I know a guy at my autozone that has a stroker 351 in his bronco that has a diesel zf5 transmission put on it so ill probably get one of those for it I'm thinking it will handle the torque then haha.

I found a add on craigslist for a COMP 268H and lifers new in the original boxes for $100 that i might have to go get. it's got a little less lift than the other one I was looking at (found it on summit http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL35-218-3/ ) but for $100 off I can live with it. I also saw a guy selling a set of roller rockers for like $50 that I may grab if i can get the cam for 100

Normally I would agree about buying a used carb but I've got a carb MASTER that I'm good friends with (about 40 year of experience with everything from multi carb bike engines to high power big blocks) so I'm not worried about the carb being used. Pay to know people right?

I also measured out the valves on the motor when I got it apart last night, Exhaust is 1.46 If I recall and the intake was a 1.7 something. Two of the valves are in questionable condition (burned-white color) because someone didn't gap the plugs properly so I'm going to replace them since I'm in there and I think it's cheap insurance.

jthorn9

They should be approx 1.84 and 1.56. My GT-40 X302 heads are 1.90 and 1.54, you wouldn't think that little bit makes a difference but that along with its improved flow rate adds around 10-15 rwhp over basic GT-40 heads.

Well if you can get a gurantee on a used carb then go for it.

Yeah I'd try to get a roller cam over the tappet, better setup.

BTW, don't forget that if you have GT-40 heads for a 302 that you'll have to have the bolt holes machined out to accept the larger diameter bolts the 351 uses.

Well you're lucky to have a world class T-5, but don't get them confused, if memory serves me right the world calss is only rated to 280 torque. The Z rated world class used in Cobras is the one rated at just over 300. Now granted they have been proven to take more than that, but they can't sustain higher loads than that for long periods of time. I had my WCT5 supporting the loads of an 11 PSI Kenne Bell and it's still ticking, but I rarely hit the in WOT because I didn't want to destroy the tranny. Unfortunately, it wasn't the tranny but rahter the seals on the motor that went with the Kenne Bell. It's all good, I just got done dropping in a new 302 and fully rebuilding the motor, this time back to all NA, runs much better that way too. I do miss the whipple sound of the Kenne Bell but OMG that thing was brutal on the engine. No wonder Kenne Bell quit making certain lines of their S/Cs for 5.0s, they cause problems lol.

There is one problem you may still have, you may need to get an input shaft out of a 94/05 Mustang. I'm not sure if the V6 input shaft is the right size to use for the motor. I know on 5.0s the 87-93s have a slightly shorter input shaft than the 94/95s and as a result you have to do special things to 94/95s to accept other trannies, that or change out the input shafts. So you may need to check into that.