jshaffer30

ok so the starter is doing nothing. not a click or anything. i have a brand new battery in it. I put my voltage meter on the hot wire on the starter and grounded on the engine. when i turn the key like i wanted to start it, the volt meter drops 10 amps and i get nothing. not shore whats going on with it? hope you guys can help me.

Derf00

What do you mean, "drops 10 amps"? Most Volt Meters can't handle a high amount of amounts without frying them unless you have a high end one? From the sounds of it, your Postive battery cable is fine but you're not testing the actual starting circuit. There's usually a relay and solenoid involved in starting the car.

Find the starter relay in the fuse box of the engine bay...

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9389/image2gu3.jpg

Swap it with whichever relay you have in the same fuse box that is identical to it to help rule out the relay. This could be the horn relay or other relay in the same box. Ford typically uses the same relays for a wide variety of applications. As long as the pins are numbered the same or the relay part number is the same you're fine.

If it still won't start, what year Stang do you have?

I recently chased down a similar problem in our Ford Escape. My problem turned out to be the alarm system module was shorting out but, I learned a lot in the process of how to troubleshoot starting issues when it's not a battery.

There's a way to rule out the starter without taking it out, bypassing the relay pins by shorting across the normal always live end and the end that temporarily closes while you crank. The year will let me look up the relay configuration you have.

jshaffer30

the car is a 1995 and the starter have the solenoid on it so i am testing the solenoid. when i put the volt meter on the positive post where hot wire come in to the solenoid on the starter and i ground on the engine my meter read 12.- 12.4 and when i try to crank the car it drops to 1.5 i don't get any thing no click to sound at all. i have tried swapping the horn relay with the starter one and still nothing. the guy i bought this project from had taken out the alarm system. i put it all back in and get nothing. the box made a weird clicking noise. i had trouble finding a wiring diagram that would help me. all of my lights work the horn works the fuel pump comes on. i have turn signals and lights. i have a service engine light on when i turn the key. i am going to put my reader on it tomorrow but i don't think its related.

jshaffer30

i had the starter tested at the auto parts store and they said it was good.

corker

A couple of checks:
Check your engine to chassis ground wire to ensure it is there and make sure it is clean and tight.
Do a voltage drop test on the positive battery cable to the starter - put 1 lead of your VOLTMETER on the battery cable on the starter solenoid & the other lead on the positive battery terminal (may need a jumper wire here for extra length). Have someone try to start the car - voltmeter should not read more than 1 - 1.5 volts.
A voltmeter reads voltage differences - so, if you have 12v at battery and 1.5v at starter, you have a voltage drop of 10.5v. That 10.5v is getting lost/consumed before it gets to the starter. If you have high voltage drop, check all connections and the wire itself from the battery to the starter solenoid.
Corky

Derf00

Ok well the solenoid works and it's not a relay, that's good.

You'll need to bypass the starter relay circuit for this step. Your starter relay has 5 pins correct? Regardless, when you look at the base of the relay where the pins are, the one in the middle is not used. So, you'll need a short piece of solid copper wire (like wire used for household electrical) or a thick paper clip.

The pic below shows you what pins to connect.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ingDiagram.jpg

Take the starter relay out. In the fuse box where you pulled the relay out you'll have all the sockets where the relay normally sits. You'll notice there are three outer pins that are parallel to each other and one outer that is not.

Put the key in the ignition and put it to 'On' position but don't try to crank the car. Make sure the transmission is in Neutral!!

Next, take the paper clip or wire while using insulated pliers (any pliers with rubber or plastic on the handles) and momentarily short it out across positions 30 and 86 (or 87 and 87A depending on how the relay is pinned out) These are the two outer pins that are not parallel to each other.

The starter should turn over, as soon as it does and the car starts running, remove the paper clip/wire. If it starts up this way, it's most likely something with the alarm wiring that is messed up. If it doesn't, I'm stumped.

What this method does is it bypasses the ignition switch circuit and Neutral safety circuit (clutch switch) which could be compromised by messed up wiring from the alarm. It basically closes the circuit for your starter solenoid manually and allows the current to flow directly from the battery to the starter.

A starter relay normally requires two signals to close, one from your ignition switch (when you crank the car) and one from your neutral safety switch. Once it gets both signals, it magnetizes the relay and shuts the armature. Once that happens the circuit is closed and the juice flows from the battery to the solenoid which allows the starter to crank. As soon as you let go of the ignition you lose one of the signals, the starter relay demagnetizes and the armature opens. This cuts the current to the solenoid and your starter disengages.

The solenoid itself is a relay but you've already ruled it out.

jshaffer30

ok so i tried bypassing the relay and at first it didn't work but when i messed with my engine ground and it cranked over. so it is cranking when i use the wire to skip the relay but still doesn't turn over when i try and use the key (with all the relays back in the vehicle).

Derf00

Ok, so something is blocking the (ignition switch and/or neutral safety switch) signal from getting to the relay to close circuit.

It should be able to crank and catch and run if the key is left in the 'on' position while you skip the relay with the wire. If only cranks but doesn't run, you may have two problems. Circuit not closing (no crank) and either fuel or spark not being present (not running).

To me that says alarm system (or wiring that got messed up from removing it) is the problem.

When you first turn the key to 'on' do you hear the fuel pump kick on? If you do, then you have fuel and it's the spark that's missing. If you're missing spark, the alarm may have been wired into the PCM circuit.

If you don't hear the pump, then you need to see about why the power is being cut to the fuel pump.

Like I mentioned before, you're getting into territory that I'm not comfortable working in, especially on a car I don't have much experience on. I had a 2000 V6 but it never had this type of issue.

You may want to take it to a stereo/alarm shop and have them look at the wiring for the alarm to make certain all of the wires that were tapped connected how they should be.

Chromeshadow

Do this

Do the headlights work? Do they work when you try to start the car?

jshaffer30

the car fuel pump come on when i turn the key to run and i have 40psi at the injector rail when i jump the relay and the car turns over. i have head lights blinkers and interior lighting when i turn the key. i have not looked at my head lights when i crank the engine. i just changed the spark plugs they where very bad but still not getting anything. i will keep tinkering with it. i really appreciate all the help i have gotten it really help. i pulled the spark plug wire and put my amp reader on it and when i turned the engine over i got a reading which made me assume that i should have spark with new plugs.