2003 no crank, any ideas?
01-21-2017, 02:18 AM
#1
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 55
2003 no crank, any ideas?
New here, but not new to owning Mustangs.
Last week my 16 year old daughter bought a 2003 Mustang convertible, v6 with 94,000 miles. Today she came home for lunch, when she left to go back to school I heard the engine crank for about 1 second then nothing. I am not sure where I should check. I am not a typical DIYer, I went to college for auto tech and did a lot of mechanic work but that was back in the late 80's and early 90's. Here is what her car is doing.
Turn the key to run, everything comes on like it should. Theft light will light steady for a few seconds then go off. Turn the key to start and nothing. No click, no thunk, no noise at all. Turn the headlights on, they come on bright like normal. Turn the key to start with the headlights on, it does not change the brightness of the headlights. The row of warning lights along the bottom of the instrument panel come on like normal with key turned to run, but when turned to start some of them go out like normal.
So far here is what I have done. I started with the basic simple stuff.
Shifted from park to neutral and through the range of selections several times, and tried to crank the engine in P and N. No change. Jiggled the key and tried again, nothing. Turned the steering wheel side to side, and locked wheel, nothing. Worked the tilt wheel up and down trying to crank, nothing. Didn't figure the last few would have any effect but you never know.
Checked the battery, it is reading 12.54 volts. Turn on headlights with meter on battery, battery drops slightly but stays above 12 volts. Turn the key to start with meter on battery, the voltage drops from 12.54 volts down to about 12.33 volts. Took battery cables off of battery, cleaned with wire brush and a pocket knife, replaced and tightened the cables. Still no change. The wires at the terminals look good, no corrosion in the wires under the insulation or at the connection.
I could not check the grounds to the engine yet, it was raining and very muddy so I couldn't get under the car. I did connect my heavy duty jumper cables from the ground cable to the engine block and tried starting. Still nothing.
I also tested the battery voltage from the battery pos to the engine block, still reading 12.54 volts.
So, I checked the max fuse in the power distribution box out by the battery. I checked all of the large fuses just to be sure, all looked and tested good. I pulled the starter relay out of the box and tested it. it also tested fine. To test this I connected the 85 and 86 terminals on the relay to 12 volt battery power while checking continuity between the other 2 terminals. The test showed that was working properly.
Now for the parts that have me stumped. I poked my volt meter set to 12 volts into the socket where the 86 post on the starter relay plugged into and turned the key to start. No voltage. I then plugged into the socket where the 85 post would plug into and turned the engine to start, no voltage. I tested these 2 sockets with the red meter lead plugged into the socket and the black lead to the engine block, then to the neg battery terminal. Should I get voltage at one of these terminals?
I have it up to the shop now, so tomorrow I can jack it up and get under it to test the connections and voltage to the starter. What else should I check? How do I check the transmission shift position sensor to test the neutral safety switch?
Thanks in advance for any advice or help that can be offered!
Last week my 16 year old daughter bought a 2003 Mustang convertible, v6 with 94,000 miles. Today she came home for lunch, when she left to go back to school I heard the engine crank for about 1 second then nothing. I am not sure where I should check. I am not a typical DIYer, I went to college for auto tech and did a lot of mechanic work but that was back in the late 80's and early 90's. Here is what her car is doing.
Turn the key to run, everything comes on like it should. Theft light will light steady for a few seconds then go off. Turn the key to start and nothing. No click, no thunk, no noise at all. Turn the headlights on, they come on bright like normal. Turn the key to start with the headlights on, it does not change the brightness of the headlights. The row of warning lights along the bottom of the instrument panel come on like normal with key turned to run, but when turned to start some of them go out like normal.
So far here is what I have done. I started with the basic simple stuff.
Shifted from park to neutral and through the range of selections several times, and tried to crank the engine in P and N. No change. Jiggled the key and tried again, nothing. Turned the steering wheel side to side, and locked wheel, nothing. Worked the tilt wheel up and down trying to crank, nothing. Didn't figure the last few would have any effect but you never know.
Checked the battery, it is reading 12.54 volts. Turn on headlights with meter on battery, battery drops slightly but stays above 12 volts. Turn the key to start with meter on battery, the voltage drops from 12.54 volts down to about 12.33 volts. Took battery cables off of battery, cleaned with wire brush and a pocket knife, replaced and tightened the cables. Still no change. The wires at the terminals look good, no corrosion in the wires under the insulation or at the connection.
I could not check the grounds to the engine yet, it was raining and very muddy so I couldn't get under the car. I did connect my heavy duty jumper cables from the ground cable to the engine block and tried starting. Still nothing.
I also tested the battery voltage from the battery pos to the engine block, still reading 12.54 volts.
So, I checked the max fuse in the power distribution box out by the battery. I checked all of the large fuses just to be sure, all looked and tested good. I pulled the starter relay out of the box and tested it. it also tested fine. To test this I connected the 85 and 86 terminals on the relay to 12 volt battery power while checking continuity between the other 2 terminals. The test showed that was working properly.
Now for the parts that have me stumped. I poked my volt meter set to 12 volts into the socket where the 86 post on the starter relay plugged into and turned the key to start. No voltage. I then plugged into the socket where the 85 post would plug into and turned the engine to start, no voltage. I tested these 2 sockets with the red meter lead plugged into the socket and the black lead to the engine block, then to the neg battery terminal. Should I get voltage at one of these terminals?
I have it up to the shop now, so tomorrow I can jack it up and get under it to test the connections and voltage to the starter. What else should I check? How do I check the transmission shift position sensor to test the neutral safety switch?
Thanks in advance for any advice or help that can be offered!
01-21-2017, 02:59 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 55
I got it up in the air so I can get under it. The ground wire is clean and tight, the plug to the shift position sensor is clean and tight. I am going to go ahead and pull the starter to test it.
I can only see 2 bolts on the starter, and feeling around cant feel a third bolt. I am finding mixed information online about this, does this starter only have 2 bolts or is there a third hiding somewhere? Some websites say 2 some say 3.
I can only see 2 bolts on the starter, and feeling around cant feel a third bolt. I am finding mixed information online about this, does this starter only have 2 bolts or is there a third hiding somewhere? Some websites say 2 some say 3.
01-21-2017, 04:43 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 55
Got the starter out. I connected my jumper cables to the car battery pos and neg. I connected the neg jumper cable to the starter frame, the pos jumper cable to the pos lug on the starter. When I jumped between the big lug and small lug on the starter with a screwdriver, the starter kicked out and spun. In my mind this tells me the starter is good.
What next?
What next?
01-21-2017, 07:33 PM
#6
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: WV
Posts: 49
Any chance that there has been any stereo/radio install done ? Reason for asking is that fuse F2.6 in the central fuse box also controls the starter relay circuit. Didn't see you state that you had checked the central fuse box.
01-21-2017, 10:43 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 55
No new electronic work done that I know of. She bought the car a week ago, and we have done nothing to it. It has been fine so far for her.
I did not check any fuse in the central fuse box. I only checked the fuses under the hood, didn't realize any other fuses controlled the start circuit. By central fuse box you mean the one under the dash right?
I did check to make sure the engine was not stuck. I didn't figure it would be with no click or noise from the starter, but wanted to rule out everything I could think of. Engine is not stuck, it will turn over with a wrench.
I did not check any fuse in the central fuse box. I only checked the fuses under the hood, didn't realize any other fuses controlled the start circuit. By central fuse box you mean the one under the dash right?
I did check to make sure the engine was not stuck. I didn't figure it would be with no click or noise from the starter, but wanted to rule out everything I could think of. Engine is not stuck, it will turn over with a wrench.
01-21-2017, 11:38 PM
#9
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: TN
Posts: 1,626
Thinking about it...light and such are fine but nothing at all happens on key turn I would almost swear its a fuse. Most likely one under the hood in one of the two boxes there.
But I see you tried a few things but Ill post my checklist anyways to go over it all...
fuses
grounds
battery
battery cables
neutral switch
solenoid
Might just attempt a boost though its most likely not that with the battery being full. But Id use a fuse tester and not depend on visual only.
But I see you tried a few things but Ill post my checklist anyways to go over it all...
fuses
grounds
battery
battery cables
neutral switch
solenoid
Might just attempt a boost though its most likely not that with the battery being full. But Id use a fuse tester and not depend on visual only.
01-22-2017, 01:46 AM
#10
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 55
Tried a jump start, same results.
So far I have
checked the fuses in the box under the hood near the battery. I checked the 1 large fuse that the book says is for the starter and checked the starter relay in that same box. I did check all of the large max fuses in that box with my tester, all are good. I did not look at the smaller fuses in the same box, I didn't see anything in the owners manual that appeared to be starter related. I did not check any other fuse boxes either, the only ones I know of are the 1 by the battery and the one under the dash. I will look more tomorrow when I get back to the shop.
I tested for voltage at the battery cable that connects to the starter large lug, and I have the same voltage there as I do the battery, 12.54 volts. I tested at the power lug on the outside of the fuse box under the hood, 12.54 volts.
I checked the wires at the transmission shift position sensor, wires look good. I am not sure how to test the neutral safety switch, but I did try starting with it in neutral and park. I also held the key to the start position while working the shifter lever through the full range several times.
I did not check voltage to the max fuse marked starter under the hood. I am planning on doing that tomorrow. I am really suspecting that I am not getting current to the starter circuit.
All battery connections and grounds are tight and clean, and I did connect jumper cables between the battery - and the engine block, no change.
The starter will kick out and turn while bench testing with jumper cables.
I think my next steps are to put the starter back in. I think I am going to install a long pigtail jumper on the small exciter wire lug on the starter solenoid so I can measure for voltage there, and even jump the solenoid. I do not have enough room to get my meter leads onto this lug when the starter is installed, and not enough room to install my remote start button to test while it is on the vehicle and connected. When I am done I will just tie the jumper wire off to the side and cap it off for safety.
Once I get the starter back on I will see if jumping the solenoid will turn it. I suspect it will. Then I will have to start at the fuse box and start tracing back to find where the circuit is open. At this point I would guess neutral safety switch or the ignition switch itself.
This will be after I find the other fuse and check it. The way it cranked for a second then quit I think a fuse is more likely than a switch. If it is then I think I need to explore to find out why the fuse blew out. And if it turns out to be a fuse, we wont tell anyone. Especially my wife and daughter! Don't need to make a big deal out of the fact that I spent an afternoon testing a car and pulling a starter over a fuse!
So far I have
checked the fuses in the box under the hood near the battery. I checked the 1 large fuse that the book says is for the starter and checked the starter relay in that same box. I did check all of the large max fuses in that box with my tester, all are good. I did not look at the smaller fuses in the same box, I didn't see anything in the owners manual that appeared to be starter related. I did not check any other fuse boxes either, the only ones I know of are the 1 by the battery and the one under the dash. I will look more tomorrow when I get back to the shop.
I tested for voltage at the battery cable that connects to the starter large lug, and I have the same voltage there as I do the battery, 12.54 volts. I tested at the power lug on the outside of the fuse box under the hood, 12.54 volts.
I checked the wires at the transmission shift position sensor, wires look good. I am not sure how to test the neutral safety switch, but I did try starting with it in neutral and park. I also held the key to the start position while working the shifter lever through the full range several times.
I did not check voltage to the max fuse marked starter under the hood. I am planning on doing that tomorrow. I am really suspecting that I am not getting current to the starter circuit.
All battery connections and grounds are tight and clean, and I did connect jumper cables between the battery - and the engine block, no change.
The starter will kick out and turn while bench testing with jumper cables.
I think my next steps are to put the starter back in. I think I am going to install a long pigtail jumper on the small exciter wire lug on the starter solenoid so I can measure for voltage there, and even jump the solenoid. I do not have enough room to get my meter leads onto this lug when the starter is installed, and not enough room to install my remote start button to test while it is on the vehicle and connected. When I am done I will just tie the jumper wire off to the side and cap it off for safety.
Once I get the starter back on I will see if jumping the solenoid will turn it. I suspect it will. Then I will have to start at the fuse box and start tracing back to find where the circuit is open. At this point I would guess neutral safety switch or the ignition switch itself.
This will be after I find the other fuse and check it. The way it cranked for a second then quit I think a fuse is more likely than a switch. If it is then I think I need to explore to find out why the fuse blew out. And if it turns out to be a fuse, we wont tell anyone. Especially my wife and daughter! Don't need to make a big deal out of the fact that I spent an afternoon testing a car and pulling a starter over a fuse!