X Charger - Closer Look
05-15-2006, 09:32 PM
#1
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X Charger - Closer Look
X Charger closer look
A couple disclaimers this is IMO and don’t listen to me this is just for general discussion.
Legal see above.
Affixer you car happen to be the test mule so what ever anyone says in the past now or future please take no offense, our comments good or bad are not meant at you but rather directed at the X Charger performance and our opinions vs. other systems. I think some guys did and some went quiet after numbers on discussing this because they were guarded as to comment because they felt you might take it personal.
I use to read the forums a lot but have lost interest after 10 months still visit but now I might only read 5 threads then leave. I will mostly read only turbo/S/C threads or right now interested in the different out hoods for our cars. So with that said I might have missed some info in non-charger threads where sometimes charger info takes place so if I am not up to date you know why.
I have been following this X Charger since last November had talks with Dave also researched the MP 90 found the info about Magnuson Products back then. I had been like you guys waiting for this one to come out. I had a pretty good ideal where the numbers were going to fall along with some of you so it really wasn’t a big surprise when they came out.
I think some of us were hoping inside for a surprise/long shot on this thing for high 275- 300HP for our greedy need for power. But when the numbers hit they were right about in line where they were suppose to be.
We have the numbers plus IMO the hi pro 49 state as well will explain later.
The X Charger of course is a roots type charger ay 6psi-7.5psi on a 3-inch pulley non- inter-cooled producing 250RWHP@262TQ.
Hey guys I am going to change the format from how I was originally going to post this, instead I will just respond to your comments in more detail and on the X Charger and maybe might learn more from each other. I like the X Charger with out a doubt I was hoping 6 months ago for 275RWHP and above to possibly go with it not for all out track use but for street fun then I got side tracked to the turbo and PC. I did a lot of research and what it would take to setup this car for the track. I have since changed plans and just want some kind of boost just for fun factor because I decided to get a 08-09 Stang per new engine options hopefully which the 08 can be ordered next June 07 or wait the following June for the 09. So not going to dump a lot of money for that reason but in the mean time just want some cheap fun.
I would like high 12's to low 13's with a ProCharger since my comments in this thread there are aleast two people posted the X Charger will run mid 13's which to me is somewhere in the 1350's. I didn't feel that is possible with just a LSD and gear so I like hear more. If this is possible without just a gear and LSD the X Charger will be for me over the ProCharger.
Rygn questions for you I do not mean to sound offensive or doubt you just want to debate some of your comments see if I am missing anything.
Just for the record when I ws responding above to Fazm he didn't say anything about gear, shift points, or new aggressive tune. I was just responding as Affixer car is now the only thing I remember affixer wanting to add is a LSD/T-Lok and I stand my my response to Fazm even with a LSD of very high 13's to low 14's.
Then you posted the above.
Ok LSD/t-lok, gear, more aggressive tune ok if the car can do mid 13's with that then X Charger could be for me, but even with that I still can't see it so enlighten me lets debate how these would help get the X charger in the 13.50's with these mods.
1.First off we have to talk about these shift (per you & scrming) points, 3/10's is a LOT of time for a 1/4 for that tweaking. I have always had MT built street cars but some of my friends have had built autos which I drove . Two of them had Chevys with the TH 400 auto trans one had a manual valve body in the tranny, with it installed it would break the tires losse on street tires in its second shift and bark them loud with next shift or two on street tires. I mean it would snap your neck back when WOT. I know this is kinda similar to what your to what lidio shift points from seeing Scrming vids and looks good you could hear how the car shifts nice and see but no where near a manural valve body maybe closer to a shift plate. The VB were good for a tenth or two in the 1/4.
So I have a hard time beliveing 3/10's I could be wrong but I just can't see it. I know you ran the car the second week end and you improved from 13.90 - 13.60 but so many factors any new adjustments to the tune that week? to the car? tire pressure? launch RPM? weather? track cond? combo of these thing? etc? you know what I mean. Ok what would be interesting is when your at the track do two back to back runs then download the shift program you had on the 13.90 run and two back to back runs.
Now if we look at PR's run with a tune, CAI ,LSD auto trans he ran a 14.70 or 14.60 do you think if he loaded that shift tune PR would really run a 14.30 or 14.40 see where I am going.
I just question that 3/10's no offense.
I read Dougs post first thing is he already firmed up Affixers trans program so even with lidios trans program it wont't have as big effect as it would if he (Doug) wouldn't done some already. I have to agree with scrming on the tune is done of if there is any left not much for these reasons, they wanted to produce good numbers and wanted to know why or how to get to 300RWHP according to Dougs so that tells they tuned for the numbers didn't leave much on the table if anything.
HP & TQ
The X Charger makes----------------------- 250RWHP & 262RWTQ
The GT per Pauls High Performance dyno---- 261RWHP & 283RWTQ
Dougs GT dyno------------------------------250RWHP & 257RWTQ
I wanted a third party GT dyno and have one if anyone wants to see it of a GT so I have one from Paul’s High Performance (PHP) very respected.
I can’t see this thing running mid 13’s even with the mods you suggested, I mean when I said very high 13’s to low fourteens in a response to Frzm without these mods I think the car might even do 14.10-14.20
A couple disclaimers this is IMO and don’t listen to me this is just for general discussion.
Legal see above.
Affixer you car happen to be the test mule so what ever anyone says in the past now or future please take no offense, our comments good or bad are not meant at you but rather directed at the X Charger performance and our opinions vs. other systems. I think some guys did and some went quiet after numbers on discussing this because they were guarded as to comment because they felt you might take it personal.
I use to read the forums a lot but have lost interest after 10 months still visit but now I might only read 5 threads then leave. I will mostly read only turbo/S/C threads or right now interested in the different out hoods for our cars. So with that said I might have missed some info in non-charger threads where sometimes charger info takes place so if I am not up to date you know why.
I have been following this X Charger since last November had talks with Dave also researched the MP 90 found the info about Magnuson Products back then. I had been like you guys waiting for this one to come out. I had a pretty good ideal where the numbers were going to fall along with some of you so it really wasn’t a big surprise when they came out.
I think some of us were hoping inside for a surprise/long shot on this thing for high 275- 300HP for our greedy need for power. But when the numbers hit they were right about in line where they were suppose to be.
We have the numbers plus IMO the hi pro 49 state as well will explain later.
The X Charger of course is a roots type charger ay 6psi-7.5psi on a 3-inch pulley non- inter-cooled producing 250RWHP@262TQ.
Hey guys I am going to change the format from how I was originally going to post this, instead I will just respond to your comments in more detail and on the X Charger and maybe might learn more from each other. I like the X Charger with out a doubt I was hoping 6 months ago for 275RWHP and above to possibly go with it not for all out track use but for street fun then I got side tracked to the turbo and PC. I did a lot of research and what it would take to setup this car for the track. I have since changed plans and just want some kind of boost just for fun factor because I decided to get a 08-09 Stang per new engine options hopefully which the 08 can be ordered next June 07 or wait the following June for the 09. So not going to dump a lot of money for that reason but in the mean time just want some cheap fun.
I would like high 12's to low 13's with a ProCharger since my comments in this thread there are aleast two people posted the X Charger will run mid 13's which to me is somewhere in the 1350's. I didn't feel that is possible with just a LSD and gear so I like hear more. If this is possible without just a gear and LSD the X Charger will be for me over the ProCharger.
Rygn questions for you I do not mean to sound offensive or doubt you just want to debate some of your comments see if I am missing anything.
ORIGINAL: TJ
I don't see mid to high 13's maybe very high 13's to low 14's.
ORIGINAL: fazm
most of the hype died down becacuse of the numbers it put out. Lots of people were hoping for high numbers from it, not realizing it was a 6psi non intercooled roots blower.... probably the most inneficient style of power adder out there. But for a street car, its lots of fun. This FI option is not for those wantin fast et's at the track, its for those that want a fun daily driver with more oomph. In my book, thats a lot of money to still be stuck running in the mid to high 13s.
most of the hype died down becacuse of the numbers it put out. Lots of people were hoping for high numbers from it, not realizing it was a 6psi non intercooled roots blower.... probably the most inneficient style of power adder out there. But for a street car, its lots of fun. This FI option is not for those wantin fast et's at the track, its for those that want a fun daily driver with more oomph. In my book, thats a lot of money to still be stuck running in the mid to high 13s.
I don't see mid to high 13's maybe very high 13's to low 14's.
ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke
Well with an conservative tune, open diff and stock gearing, Afixer was skating the 13.9/14.0 line. So with better tires, firmed up auto tune, lsd and some 3.73's, I think mid 13's are doable. I went from a 13.9 down to a 13.6 by firming up my shifts on my auto tranny.
ORIGINAL: TJ
I don't see mid to high 13's maybe very high 13's to low 14's.
ORIGINAL: fazm
most of the hype died down becacuse of the numbers it put out. Lots of people were hoping for high numbers from it, not realizing it was a 6psi non intercooled roots blower.... probably the most inneficient style of power adder out there. But for a street car, its lots of fun. This FI option is not for those wantin fast et's at the track, its for those that want a fun daily driver with more oomph. In my book, thats a lot of money to still be stuck running in the mid to high 13s.
most of the hype died down becacuse of the numbers it put out. Lots of people were hoping for high numbers from it, not realizing it was a 6psi non intercooled roots blower.... probably the most inneficient style of power adder out there. But for a street car, its lots of fun. This FI option is not for those wantin fast et's at the track, its for those that want a fun daily driver with more oomph. In my book, thats a lot of money to still be stuck running in the mid to high 13s.
I don't see mid to high 13's maybe very high 13's to low 14's.
Ok LSD/t-lok, gear, more aggressive tune ok if the car can do mid 13's with that then X Charger could be for me, but even with that I still can't see it so enlighten me lets debate how these would help get the X charger in the 13.50's with these mods.
1.First off we have to talk about these shift (per you & scrming) points, 3/10's is a LOT of time for a 1/4 for that tweaking. I have always had MT built street cars but some of my friends have had built autos which I drove . Two of them had Chevys with the TH 400 auto trans one had a manual valve body in the tranny, with it installed it would break the tires losse on street tires in its second shift and bark them loud with next shift or two on street tires. I mean it would snap your neck back when WOT. I know this is kinda similar to what your to what lidio shift points from seeing Scrming vids and looks good you could hear how the car shifts nice and see but no where near a manural valve body maybe closer to a shift plate. The VB were good for a tenth or two in the 1/4.
So I have a hard time beliveing 3/10's I could be wrong but I just can't see it. I know you ran the car the second week end and you improved from 13.90 - 13.60 but so many factors any new adjustments to the tune that week? to the car? tire pressure? launch RPM? weather? track cond? combo of these thing? etc? you know what I mean. Ok what would be interesting is when your at the track do two back to back runs then download the shift program you had on the 13.90 run and two back to back runs.
Now if we look at PR's run with a tune, CAI ,LSD auto trans he ran a 14.70 or 14.60 do you think if he loaded that shift tune PR would really run a 14.30 or 14.40 see where I am going.
I just question that 3/10's no offense.
I read Dougs post first thing is he already firmed up Affixers trans program so even with lidios trans program it wont't have as big effect as it would if he (Doug) wouldn't done some already. I have to agree with scrming on the tune is done of if there is any left not much for these reasons, they wanted to produce good numbers and wanted to know why or how to get to 300RWHP according to Dougs so that tells they tuned for the numbers didn't leave much on the table if anything.
HP & TQ
The X Charger makes----------------------- 250RWHP & 262RWTQ
The GT per Pauls High Performance dyno---- 261RWHP & 283RWTQ
Dougs GT dyno------------------------------250RWHP & 257RWTQ
I wanted a third party GT dyno and have one if anyone wants to see it of a GT so I have one from Paul’s High Performance (PHP) very respected.
I can’t see this thing running mid 13’s even with the mods you suggested, I mean when I said very high 13’s to low fourteens in a response to Frzm without these mods I think the car might even do 14.10-14.20
05-15-2006, 09:48 PM
#2
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
I'll share this with you. I did not buy my original X-Cal2 from Lidio. At the time Lidio was not doing V6's. I bought mine from a very well respected shop. Then I bought Lidio's tune. When I had Lidio set my shifts to "barbaric" it shaved .25 off my 0 to 60 time! Not 1/4, but 0 to 60! I would guess that guys would not set the shift firmness as high as I had Lidio set it! When we went to the 125HP shot I did some data logging. I found that we needed to firm the shifts up EVEN MORE! The shifts were way to slow! Based on the data I can easily see shaving .3 off by firming up the shifts! If I think about it I'll see if I can find the logs... My guess is since Doug was doing a "street" tune there is still room for firming up the shifts...
Afixer... if you ever have some time... can you do some datalogging? All i need is RPMS and MPH at WOT... LOL!
Afixer... if you ever have some time... can you do some datalogging? All i need is RPMS and MPH at WOT... LOL!
05-15-2006, 09:50 PM
#3
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Apr 2005
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
Wow... that was a long one! Decent job summing things up.
I still think the X-charger is going to be a great system... safe, reliable with power when you want it... and certainly a kick around town.
Just based in this dyno comparison, I think it'll make the 4.0L very equal to the stock GT.... high 13's.
http://www.bamachips.com/xspecVSautoGTbaseline.jpg
But, if I'm going to supercharge, I'd like to be able to beat a stock or lightly modded GT. But, that's not everyone's goals. The X-charger looks and sounds awesome and produces very good numbers, right in light with the other non-intercooled, lower boost superchargers out there. I don't think anyone could go wrong with slappin' one on!
And, Scrming... you're so right... there's so much in the tune!
I still think the X-charger is going to be a great system... safe, reliable with power when you want it... and certainly a kick around town.
Just based in this dyno comparison, I think it'll make the 4.0L very equal to the stock GT.... high 13's.
http://www.bamachips.com/xspecVSautoGTbaseline.jpg
But, if I'm going to supercharge, I'd like to be able to beat a stock or lightly modded GT. But, that's not everyone's goals. The X-charger looks and sounds awesome and produces very good numbers, right in light with the other non-intercooled, lower boost superchargers out there. I don't think anyone could go wrong with slappin' one on!
And, Scrming... you're so right... there's so much in the tune!
05-15-2006, 10:21 PM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
ORIGINAL: scrming
I'll share this with you. I did not buy my original X-Cal2 from Lidio. At the time Lidio was not doing V6's. I bought mine from a very well respected shop. Then I bought Lidio's tune. When I had Lidio set my shifts to "barbaric" it shaved .25 off my 0 to 60 time! Not 1/4, but 0 to 60! I would guess that guys would not set the shift firmness as high as I had Lidio set it! When we went to the 125HP shot I did some data logging. I found that we needed to firm the shifts up EVEN MORE! The shifts were way to slow! Based on the data I can easily see shaving .3 off by firming up the shifts! If I think about it I'll see if I can find the logs... My guess is since Doug was doing a "street" tune there is still room for firming up the shifts...
Afixer... if you ever have some time... can you do some datalogging? All i need is RPMS and MPH at WOT... LOL!
I'll share this with you. I did not buy my original X-Cal2 from Lidio. At the time Lidio was not doing V6's. I bought mine from a very well respected shop. Then I bought Lidio's tune. When I had Lidio set my shifts to "barbaric" it shaved .25 off my 0 to 60 time! Not 1/4, but 0 to 60! I would guess that guys would not set the shift firmness as high as I had Lidio set it! When we went to the 125HP shot I did some data logging. I found that we needed to firm the shifts up EVEN MORE! The shifts were way to slow! Based on the data I can easily see shaving .3 off by firming up the shifts! If I think about it I'll see if I can find the logs... My guess is since Doug was doing a "street" tune there is still room for firming up the shifts...
Afixer... if you ever have some time... can you do some datalogging? All i need is RPMS and MPH at WOT... LOL!
Scrming I hear you but I would just like to see 1/4 runs with and without per ET slip, I mean 3/10s just sounds like a lot for that. let me ask you this how come we haven't seen any auto's run a 14.30 or 14.40? I mean do you think PR who ran 14.60 or 14.70 would run a 14.30 or 14.40 with his shift points firmed upN.A?
Hey you guys running these auto should really get this tune and tweak from lidio beause if you can shave off 3/10's is consider that a no brainer, I mean that will be the cheapest shaving off of 3/10's you will probaly ever get.
Hey I have an ideal we should man we pitch in and get hamdlmt this tune with the shift point tweaked he would it would be a great test! hamdlmt what you think?
05-15-2006, 10:26 PM
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
ORIGINAL: hamidlmt
Wow... that was a long one! Decent job summing things up.
I still think the X-charger is going to be a great system... safe, reliable with power when you want it... and certainly a kick around town.
Just based in this dyno comparison, I think it'll make the 4.0L very equal to the stock GT.... high 13's.
http://www.bamachips.com/xspecVSautoGTbaseline.jpg
But, if I'm going to supercharge, I'd like to be able to beat a stock or lightly modded GT. But, that's not everyone's goals. The X-charger looks and sounds awesome and produces very good numbers, right in light with the other non-intercooled, lower boost superchargers out there. I don't think anyone could go wrong with slappin' one on!
And, Scrming... you're so right... there's so much in the tune!
Wow... that was a long one! Decent job summing things up.
I still think the X-charger is going to be a great system... safe, reliable with power when you want it... and certainly a kick around town.
Just based in this dyno comparison, I think it'll make the 4.0L very equal to the stock GT.... high 13's.
http://www.bamachips.com/xspecVSautoGTbaseline.jpg
But, if I'm going to supercharge, I'd like to be able to beat a stock or lightly modded GT. But, that's not everyone's goals. The X-charger looks and sounds awesome and produces very good numbers, right in light with the other non-intercooled, lower boost superchargers out there. I don't think anyone could go wrong with slappin' one on!
And, Scrming... you're so right... there's so much in the tune!
Thanks hamidlmt
Hey hamidlmt you interested in knocking off 3/10's or close to it give or take a few hundreds so we could find out per time slip?
Take your car to the track same day make a run or two without then with that would put uou at about 14.49
05-15-2006, 10:32 PM
#6
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
TJ... I've got my X-cal boxed up and ready to ship to Doug for some tune tweaks. You bet I'll get back to the track with the new tune.
btw... I believe Puerto Rico 4.6 ran a 14.708
Rygen's auto shaved 3/10 off his quarter mile by firming up his shift points... I don't know if he was spraying or not... either way, I sure believe 'im and it can be done.
btw... I believe Puerto Rico 4.6 ran a 14.708
Rygen's auto shaved 3/10 off his quarter mile by firming up his shift points... I don't know if he was spraying or not... either way, I sure believe 'im and it can be done.
05-15-2006, 10:44 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 300
RE: X Charger - Closer Look
even if we produce same power to the wheels as a GT we can still beat it because of 200lb advantage. Might be slightly lower since supercharger weight might be around 20-30lb. Considering 14/15 lb per hp ratio we are 10-15 hp ahead on the track.
05-15-2006, 10:46 PM
#8
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
good reading, I think that as others have mentioned, its in the tune as for as what we will finally see as actual numbers, I think a good way to make a decision is to ask:
do I want the most power available? decide what cost to wallet, motor etc. keep the info coming, I hope to have some personal input on s/c's in the near future, I just saw a v6 vortech setup, very interesting, am waiting for even more info.
do I want the most power available? decide what cost to wallet, motor etc. keep the info coming, I hope to have some personal input on s/c's in the near future, I just saw a v6 vortech setup, very interesting, am waiting for even more info.
05-15-2006, 10:55 PM
#9
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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RE: X Charger - Closer Look
ORIGINAL: TJ
Scrming I hear you but I would just like to see 1/4 runs with and without per ET slip, I mean 3/10s just sounds like a lot for that. let me ask you this how come we haven't seen any auto's run a 14.30 or 14.40? I mean do you think PR who ran 14.60 or 14.70 would run a 14.30 or 14.40 with his shift points firmed upN.A?
Hey you guys running these auto should really get this tune and tweak from lidio beause if you can shave off 3/10's is consider that a no brainer, I mean that will be the cheapest shaving off of 3/10's you will probaly ever get.
Hey I have an ideal we should man we pitch in and get hamdlmt this tune with the shift point tweaked he would it would be a great test! hamdlmt what you think?
ORIGINAL: scrming
I'll share this with you. I did not buy my original X-Cal2 from Lidio. At the time Lidio was not doing V6's. I bought mine from a very well respected shop. Then I bought Lidio's tune. When I had Lidio set my shifts to "barbaric" it shaved .25 off my 0 to 60 time! Not 1/4, but 0 to 60! I would guess that guys would not set the shift firmness as high as I had Lidio set it! When we went to the 125HP shot I did some data logging. I found that we needed to firm the shifts up EVEN MORE! The shifts were way to slow! Based on the data I can easily see shaving .3 off by firming up the shifts! If I think about it I'll see if I can find the logs... My guess is since Doug was doing a "street" tune there is still room for firming up the shifts...
Afixer... if you ever have some time... can you do some datalogging? All i need is RPMS and MPH at WOT... LOL!
I'll share this with you. I did not buy my original X-Cal2 from Lidio. At the time Lidio was not doing V6's. I bought mine from a very well respected shop. Then I bought Lidio's tune. When I had Lidio set my shifts to "barbaric" it shaved .25 off my 0 to 60 time! Not 1/4, but 0 to 60! I would guess that guys would not set the shift firmness as high as I had Lidio set it! When we went to the 125HP shot I did some data logging. I found that we needed to firm the shifts up EVEN MORE! The shifts were way to slow! Based on the data I can easily see shaving .3 off by firming up the shifts! If I think about it I'll see if I can find the logs... My guess is since Doug was doing a "street" tune there is still room for firming up the shifts...
Afixer... if you ever have some time... can you do some datalogging? All i need is RPMS and MPH at WOT... LOL!
Scrming I hear you but I would just like to see 1/4 runs with and without per ET slip, I mean 3/10s just sounds like a lot for that. let me ask you this how come we haven't seen any auto's run a 14.30 or 14.40? I mean do you think PR who ran 14.60 or 14.70 would run a 14.30 or 14.40 with his shift points firmed upN.A?
Hey you guys running these auto should really get this tune and tweak from lidio beause if you can shave off 3/10's is consider that a no brainer, I mean that will be the cheapest shaving off of 3/10's you will probaly ever get.
Hey I have an ideal we should man we pitch in and get hamdlmt this tune with the shift point tweaked he would it would be a great test! hamdlmt what you think?
