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V6 X-Charger or Vortech HO? Advantage between gear driven and twin screw?

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Old 02-22-2010, 04:58 PM   #41
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Nutshell explanation: Flywheel is what the engine is producing - rear wheel is the effective amount of horsepower you actually are putting to the ground. You lose some of the flywheel horsepower as it is transmitted throught the drive train - it has to power the transmission, the driveshaft and get the rear wheels turning.

I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
Nutshell explanation: Flywheel is what the engine is producing - rear wheel is the effective amount of horsepower you actually are putting to the ground. You lose some of the flywheel horsepower as it is transmitted throught the drive train - it has to power the transmission, the driveshaft and get the rear wheels turning.

I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
I don't think more technical is really required, your nutshell version is on the mark.

Biceps, to give you an example, a bone stock 4.0L Mustang is rated by Ford at 210HP, if you drive it off the dealer lot and go straight to a dyno, you'll get a horsepower reading somewhere around 170HP, that's because Ford measures their engine power with the engine out of the car and the dyno connented directly to the engines output, at the dyno shop you're spinning up the transmission, driveshaft, rear gears and axle, wheels and tires.

All of these items consume power to get them moving due to their mass, and most add friction losses too, hence when you measure at the wheels, what you get is never what a sales brochure said. Most supercharger companies measure or estimate from the flywheel too, same as car companies (In the case of both of them, advertising the flywheel number gives them a larger figure to brag on)

also, in general a manual transmission will lose a bit less than an automatic between the flywheel and the rear wheels, just due to the way each transmission operates)
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:20 PM   #43
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theres always ways to try and narrow the gap between the flywheel HP and the RWHP. reducing mass, such as a lightweight flywheel, and a lightweight aluminum driveshaft, will help. if your flywheel hp is 200, and you add those two parts, your flywheel hp will not change but you will free up hp that is lost in the drivetrain and you will feel like there is more hp even though there really isnt.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:30 PM   #44
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I dont know if the X-CX is the intercooled blower we have been discussing. a 6K blower is a little out of my price range, im not made of money, lol, and i think since im in cali i might be screwed a little more on the x-charger i can use here. i dont know what to do now, the X sounds nice cause it throws the HP TQ down at the lower RPM's but but i just cant really afford a 6K blower at the moment. especially since the vortech i can get is 4300 for the Hi-Po.

Well is there a way for me to get a vortech Hi-Po to throw down the same HP TQ in the lower RPM's like the X-Charger does?

This is an email i recieved from explorer express earlier today:
"Hi Tom,

We do have a CARB exempted X-CHARGER. It uses a closed airbox with a GT spec lid/MAF housing and 3.0 pulley. It runs well, but HP is soft compared to the Hi-Po Plus.

We are waiting for a back ordered genuine Ford part. Originally scheduled to ship on January 20, then rescheduled for Feb 17th. We usually get an e-mail requesting shipping arrangements, but haven't received one yet for this part.

On our totally stock, except for the X-C, 07 Mustang made 306 RWHP / 292 RWT. The production discharge manifold flows a little better than the prototype, the production X-CX may make a little more. The testing was done with the stock single exhaust. At this power level a dual exhaust system should add some power too.

I don't like to speculate about HP numbers. We are planning to do a SoCal group install and retune by Racer's Edge in Downey CA when the parts are all here.

We hope to have the last part here soon, but we also thought we could start shipping the X-CX Feb 1st.

The X-CX, with tuner is $5945.95.

If you have any other question, please call or e-mail.

Thanks for considering the X-CHARGER,
Dave"
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
Nutshell explanation: Flywheel is what the engine is producing - rear wheel is the effective amount of horsepower you actually are putting to the ground. You lose some of the flywheel horsepower as it is transmitted throught the drive train - it has to power the transmission, the driveshaft and get the rear wheels turning.

I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
Makes 100% perfect sense. Thank you for that explanation
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Torch_Vert View Post
I don't think more technical is really required, your nutshell version is on the mark.

Biceps, to give you an example, a bone stock 4.0L Mustang is rated by Ford at 210HP, if you drive it off the dealer lot and go straight to a dyno, you'll get a horsepower reading somewhere around 170HP, that's because Ford measures their engine power with the engine out of the car and the dyno connented directly to the engines output, at the dyno shop you're spinning up the transmission, driveshaft, rear gears and axle, wheels and tires.

All of these items consume power to get them moving due to their mass, and most add friction losses too, hence when you measure at the wheels, what you get is never what a sales brochure said. Most supercharger companies measure or estimate from the flywheel too, same as car companies (In the case of both of them, advertising the flywheel number gives them a larger figure to brag on)

also, in general a manual transmission will lose a bit less than an automatic between the flywheel and the rear wheels, just due to the way each transmission operates)
Torch_Vert, thank you so much for breaking this down further. I'm picking up what you're putting down
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:59 PM   #47
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non intercooled vortech here, it has been my best modification, very happy with it. i have never ridden or heard an x in person but i think the vortech looks better.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:16 AM   #48
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non intercooled vortech here, it has been my best modification, very happy with it. i have never ridden or heard an x in person but i think the vortech looks better.
how is the vortech in the lower RPM's? have you been dyno'd?

already asked but didnt think it would hurt to ask again but is there a way to help boost the vortechs hp/tq in the lower rpms?
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:35 AM   #49
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nope thats basically the choice between positive displacement and centri, pd has a nice broad flat torque curve, centris build torque linearly so all their power comes in the top end
when your driving around watch your rpms, x youll be getting boost and alotta torque at 2500rpms centri makes all its power in the 4-5k range
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:48 AM   #50
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well i would still feel the vortech blower in lower rpms though to right? i know ur saying thats when its maximum power kicks in is that high but will it still be pretty good in the lowers? dammit i wish there was a vid with 1/4 times and such on an X-Charger VS Vortech. i just want to see how the two compare.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:02 AM   #51
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i dont have a vortec but from when i looked into them i believe you start getting some boost at 3500 or so rpm and then most of your power later
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:06 AM   #52
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I am near positive that I will go with the X-charger later this year. More torque in the lower RPM range is a huge benefit to me. It's not often that I am really cranking past 2500, making the Vortech model less beneficial to my daily driving. Plus, the near 100hp with the X at the rear wheel is pretty frickin sweet
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:30 AM   #53
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did dave specify what day he would be in Downey?
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:22 AM   #54
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I am near positive that I will go with the X-charger later this year. More torque in the lower RPM range is a huge benefit to me. It's not often that I am really cranking past 2500, making the Vortech model less beneficial to my daily driving. Plus, the near 100hp with the X at the rear wheel is pretty frickin sweet
same here! mine is my DD so hp/tq comin in around 2500 would be great for city driving
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:23 AM   #55
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no he didnt say, you could probably email him for it. after reading daves email and talking to steeda aparentley tho HI-Po blower isnt Ca legal, or is the standard one, the only one that is Ca compliant is a special one that is soft on the numbers as he said. im not sure if i should get a blower that is alot lower in power over the vortech just because its boosts sooner.

wht do you guys think would be better, low numbers but more efficient in low RPM's or higher numbers with alot more power in the higher RPM's? ...this C.A.R.B. crap loves to screw with us Californians.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:14 PM   #56
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wht do you guys think would be better, low numbers but more efficient in low RPM's or higher numbers with alot more power in the higher RPM's? ...this C.A.R.B. crap loves to screw with us Californians.
It depends on your driving style. Do you normally go past 2500 rpm's? Do you crank it high into the 3000-4000 rpm range? If your driving style is more in the lower RPM range, the X charger will give you the greatest, and most consistent benefit (based on what others have said in this thread). If you are always slamming the gas pedal down and peaking out at 4000 rpms, then the Vortech will be the better fit for you.

It is something that is worth putting a phone call into both companies and discussing.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:41 PM   #57
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no he didnt say, you could probably email him for it. after reading daves email and talking to steeda aparentley tho HI-Po blower isnt Ca legal, or is the standard one, the only one that is Ca compliant is a special one that is soft on the numbers as he said. im not sure if i should get a blower that is alot lower in power over the vortech just because its boosts sooner.

wht do you guys think would be better, low numbers but more efficient in low RPM's or higher numbers with alot more power in the higher RPM's? ...this C.A.R.B. crap loves to screw with us Californians.
Move out of California, then go with the Hi Po.
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:02 PM   #58
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why not purchase the hi-po and ask dave to sell you the CA spec parts whenever the day comes that you need a smog. heck, you might even have time before your first smog. that should be the only time the CA spec will "really" matter
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:07 PM   #59
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yep, i believe all you need is your stock airbox, a different pulley and retune to go from hipo to ca-legal
might want to double check make sure the vorfec hipo is ca-legal
sounds like your leanin towards the vortec, if its what ya want go w/ it, i like my xcharger, but the vortec owners seem to like theirs too.
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:29 PM   #60
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do u guys not have shady inspection places in cali where u can just slip the dude some cash and hell give u the sticker? i know they do in tx lol
and something i was thinking about is that if you dd in the low rpms then one benefit of the vortech is u wont be making full boost therefore saving u gas. is my logic right on this?
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:29 PM
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