V6 X-Charger or Vortech HO? Advantage between gear driven and twin screw?
02-22-2010, 04:58 PM
#41
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Nutshell explanation: Flywheel is what the engine is producing - rear wheel is the effective amount of horsepower you actually are putting to the ground. You lose some of the flywheel horsepower as it is transmitted throught the drive train - it has to power the transmission, the driveshaft and get the rear wheels turning.
I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
02-22-2010, 05:35 PM
#42
Nutshell explanation: Flywheel is what the engine is producing - rear wheel is the effective amount of horsepower you actually are putting to the ground. You lose some of the flywheel horsepower as it is transmitted throught the drive train - it has to power the transmission, the driveshaft and get the rear wheels turning.
I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
Biceps, to give you an example, a bone stock 4.0L Mustang is rated by Ford at 210HP, if you drive it off the dealer lot and go straight to a dyno, you'll get a horsepower reading somewhere around 170HP, that's because Ford measures their engine power with the engine out of the car and the dyno connented directly to the engines output, at the dyno shop you're spinning up the transmission, driveshaft, rear gears and axle, wheels and tires.
All of these items consume power to get them moving due to their mass, and most add friction losses too, hence when you measure at the wheels, what you get is never what a sales brochure said. Most supercharger companies measure or estimate from the flywheel too, same as car companies (In the case of both of them, advertising the flywheel number gives them a larger figure to brag on)
also, in general a manual transmission will lose a bit less than an automatic between the flywheel and the rear wheels, just due to the way each transmission operates)
Last edited by Torch_Vert; 02-22-2010 at 05:39 PM.
02-22-2010, 10:20 PM
#43
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 1,454
theres always ways to try and narrow the gap between the flywheel HP and the RWHP. reducing mass, such as a lightweight flywheel, and a lightweight aluminum driveshaft, will help. if your flywheel hp is 200, and you add those two parts, your flywheel hp will not change but you will free up hp that is lost in the drivetrain and you will feel like there is more hp even though there really isnt.
02-22-2010, 10:30 PM
#44
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Location: Orange, California
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I dont know if the X-CX is the intercooled blower we have been discussing. a 6K blower is a little out of my price range, im not made of money, lol, and i think since im in cali i might be screwed a little more on the x-charger i can use here. i dont know what to do now, the X sounds nice cause it throws the HP TQ down at the lower RPM's but but i just cant really afford a 6K blower at the moment. especially since the vortech i can get is 4300 for the Hi-Po.
Well is there a way for me to get a vortech Hi-Po to throw down the same HP TQ in the lower RPM's like the X-Charger does?
This is an email i recieved from explorer express earlier today:
"Hi Tom,
We do have a CARB exempted X-CHARGER. It uses a closed airbox with a GT spec lid/MAF housing and 3.0 pulley. It runs well, but HP is soft compared to the Hi-Po Plus.
We are waiting for a back ordered genuine Ford part. Originally scheduled to ship on January 20, then rescheduled for Feb 17th. We usually get an e-mail requesting shipping arrangements, but haven't received one yet for this part.
On our totally stock, except for the X-C, 07 Mustang made 306 RWHP / 292 RWT. The production discharge manifold flows a little better than the prototype, the production X-CX may make a little more. The testing was done with the stock single exhaust. At this power level a dual exhaust system should add some power too.
I don't like to speculate about HP numbers. We are planning to do a SoCal group install and retune by Racer's Edge in Downey CA when the parts are all here.
We hope to have the last part here soon, but we also thought we could start shipping the X-CX Feb 1st.
The X-CX, with tuner is $5945.95.
If you have any other question, please call or e-mail.
Thanks for considering the X-CHARGER,
Dave"
Well is there a way for me to get a vortech Hi-Po to throw down the same HP TQ in the lower RPM's like the X-Charger does?
This is an email i recieved from explorer express earlier today:
"Hi Tom,
We do have a CARB exempted X-CHARGER. It uses a closed airbox with a GT spec lid/MAF housing and 3.0 pulley. It runs well, but HP is soft compared to the Hi-Po Plus.
We are waiting for a back ordered genuine Ford part. Originally scheduled to ship on January 20, then rescheduled for Feb 17th. We usually get an e-mail requesting shipping arrangements, but haven't received one yet for this part.
On our totally stock, except for the X-C, 07 Mustang made 306 RWHP / 292 RWT. The production discharge manifold flows a little better than the prototype, the production X-CX may make a little more. The testing was done with the stock single exhaust. At this power level a dual exhaust system should add some power too.
I don't like to speculate about HP numbers. We are planning to do a SoCal group install and retune by Racer's Edge in Downey CA when the parts are all here.
We hope to have the last part here soon, but we also thought we could start shipping the X-CX Feb 1st.
The X-CX, with tuner is $5945.95.
If you have any other question, please call or e-mail.
Thanks for considering the X-CHARGER,
Dave"
02-22-2010, 11:14 PM
#45
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WA
Posts: 537
Nutshell explanation: Flywheel is what the engine is producing - rear wheel is the effective amount of horsepower you actually are putting to the ground. You lose some of the flywheel horsepower as it is transmitted throught the drive train - it has to power the transmission, the driveshaft and get the rear wheels turning.
I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
I'm sure someone will have a more technical answer.
02-22-2010, 11:15 PM
#46
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WA
Posts: 537
I don't think more technical is really required, your nutshell version is on the mark.
Biceps, to give you an example, a bone stock 4.0L Mustang is rated by Ford at 210HP, if you drive it off the dealer lot and go straight to a dyno, you'll get a horsepower reading somewhere around 170HP, that's because Ford measures their engine power with the engine out of the car and the dyno connented directly to the engines output, at the dyno shop you're spinning up the transmission, driveshaft, rear gears and axle, wheels and tires.
All of these items consume power to get them moving due to their mass, and most add friction losses too, hence when you measure at the wheels, what you get is never what a sales brochure said. Most supercharger companies measure or estimate from the flywheel too, same as car companies (In the case of both of them, advertising the flywheel number gives them a larger figure to brag on)
also, in general a manual transmission will lose a bit less than an automatic between the flywheel and the rear wheels, just due to the way each transmission operates)
Biceps, to give you an example, a bone stock 4.0L Mustang is rated by Ford at 210HP, if you drive it off the dealer lot and go straight to a dyno, you'll get a horsepower reading somewhere around 170HP, that's because Ford measures their engine power with the engine out of the car and the dyno connented directly to the engines output, at the dyno shop you're spinning up the transmission, driveshaft, rear gears and axle, wheels and tires.
All of these items consume power to get them moving due to their mass, and most add friction losses too, hence when you measure at the wheels, what you get is never what a sales brochure said. Most supercharger companies measure or estimate from the flywheel too, same as car companies (In the case of both of them, advertising the flywheel number gives them a larger figure to brag on)
also, in general a manual transmission will lose a bit less than an automatic between the flywheel and the rear wheels, just due to the way each transmission operates)
02-23-2010, 12:16 AM
#48
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 1,454
already asked but didnt think it would hurt to ask again but is there a way to help boost the vortechs hp/tq in the lower rpms?
02-23-2010, 12:35 AM
#49
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: mass
Posts: 412
nope thats basically the choice between positive displacement and centri, pd has a nice broad flat torque curve, centris build torque linearly so all their power comes in the top end
when your driving around watch your rpms, x youll be getting boost and alotta torque at 2500rpms centri makes all its power in the 4-5k range
when your driving around watch your rpms, x youll be getting boost and alotta torque at 2500rpms centri makes all its power in the 4-5k range
02-23-2010, 12:48 AM
#50
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Location: Orange, California
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well i would still feel the vortech blower in lower rpms though to right? i know ur saying thats when its maximum power kicks in is that high but will it still be pretty good in the lowers? dammit i wish there was a vid with 1/4 times and such on an X-Charger VS Vortech. i just want to see how the two compare.