yeah i asked about core charge on the block Dave the rep i spoke to told me that they quit using used stock blocks, but that they still do core charges on the heads
Posts: 268
Joined: 1/30/2007 From: Blue Ridge Mtns, VA Status: offline
Good post Hammer, I've been away for a week so it took a while to catch up. But I'm with you, I'd like to attempt this myself as well. Good luck and way to stand your ground!
Posts: 849
Joined: 5/19/2006 From: Fort Mcmurray, Ab Status: offline
Yup I have been away for a while also, very interesting read, keep all the info comming. I am thinking about a built motor next year or the year after and definately want to do it myself. And as for finding a decent kit and shop, if it works out well you can recommend it to us and we will try it out and tell our friends. It could end up like the Whipple epidemic. I definately jumped on that bandwagon!
Posts: 268
Joined: 1/30/2007 From: Blue Ridge Mtns, VA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: hammeron
thanks aclass, it's going to be a fun project and definately a learning experience
have you looked at rotating assemblies yet and if so, which one do you like
I've looked Hammer but really only for pricing, I cant say that I've actually did any substantial homework yet. I'd really like to do what you initially suggested but I'm afraid of the pistons not matching the holes, if I could be guarantee'd of that then I would consider exactly what you did. All I want is the security of the rotating assembly and am not planning on maxing out the horses. I screwed up a good Harley engine one time by not matching the cylinders to the pistons so a valuable lesson was learned.
I'd really love to be able to get by for $3K but after reading all of this post I'm not so sure thats possible. I do however want to do as much as possible myself, if not everything. I had ask in a post several weeks ago if it's possible to buy the forge s/b and bolt my "stuff" on. Thats what I want to do.
Hey Hammie! I read your thread all the way through. This is my take. You and I are in the same boat. We both are supercharged and we want our motors to be safe and sound long into the future. I've been researching the same stuff you are. The conclusion I've come to is that the shortblock is probably the best way to go. Unless you want to have extended down time. I figure I can switch out my shortblock over a weekend. If I just buy a rotating kit I will need to send everything out for machine work and balancing. This could take one to two weeks to get done plus re-assembly time. A shortblock can be changed with limited parts and labor. Complete gasket kit, new timing chains etc. A complete rebuild would require at least several machine processes. Most builders recommend crankshaft linebore, cylinder bore, hone and decking the block. Realize this, The forged pistons will require increased cylinder clearance as they will expand much more when hot than a cast piston. So, your stock bore will not accomodate them. There is no way in (hell) you can rebuild your motor with forged internals without machine work. This is the honest truth. If you try stuffing Std. bore forged pistons in a Std bore motor you will stuff your motor as soon as it gets warmed up. So, one must weigh the pro's and con's when installing forged internals. Who would you trust more with your investment? A local machine shop that rebuilds every motor that's thrown at them or a shop that specializes in modular motors. When the time comes, my money will go to a builder that does modular motors as a specialty. I don't even want to rely on a generic machine shop for my motor!
Posts: 1487
Joined: 12/19/2006 From: Northern California Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: jerjan
Hey Hammie! I read your thread all the way through. This is my take. You and I are in the same boat. We both are supercharged and we want our motors to be safe and sound long into the future. I've been researching the same stuff you are. The conclusion I've come to is that the shortblock is probably the best way to go. Unless you want to have extended down time. I figure I can switch out my shortblock over a weekend. If I just buy a rotating kit I will need to send everything out for machine work and balancing. This could take one to two weeks to get done plus re-assembly time. A shortblock can be changed with limited parts and labor. Complete gasket kit, new timing chains etc. A complete rebuild would require at least several machine processes. Most builders recommend crankshaft linebore, cylinder bore, hone and decking the block. Realize this, The forged pistons will require increased cylinder clearance as they will expand much more when hot than a cast piston. So, your stock bore will not accomodate them. There is no way in (hell) you can rebuild your motor with forged internals without machine work. This is the honest truth. If you try stuffing Std. bore forged pistons in a Std bore motor you will stuff your motor as soon as it gets warmed up. So, one must weigh the pro's and con's when installing forged internals. Who would you trust more with your investment? A local machine shop that rebuilds every motor that's thrown at them or a shop that specializes in modular motors. When the time comes, my money will go to a builder that does modular motors as a specialty. I don't even want to rely on a generic machine shop for my motor!
There are some really good point in this post here.
1. Machine work is a must. At the very minimum a block needs to be honed and decked. Then there's the other stuff that gets into more money. Just FYI, for those who want a DIY job, the Cobra blocks are only $430. That is damn cheap. A new aluminum block is 1100 or so.
My new motor will be 282 ci, not stroked, but bored ever so slightly to make room for the forged pistons.
2. Machining the heads. For not alot of money(considering other things), about 1k with machine work and parts, you can get your heads machined for larger valves with upgraded springs for higher revving runs. It gives your heads the ability to inhale and exhale better along with giving you better flow for more ponies and reducing built up heat in the head.
3. Machining the assembly for balancing. It's a must.
When you work with a shop, choose one that has done modulars in the past.
i've found some really good vids on youtube and even though it's not a ford engine, it shows basically the same processes we will use in putting the short block together
All I want is the security of the rotating assembly and am not planning on maxing out the horses. I do however want to do as much as possible myself, if not everything. I had ask in a post several weeks ago if it's possible to buy the forge s/b and bolt my "stuff" on. Thats what I want to do.
My SHM motor spun a rod motor a couple weeks ago and I am currently in the process of rebuilding it. Although I am going with a big bore stroker kit it looks like it is going to be fun. Dont forget you have to take your rods and pistons to a machine shop to get the wrist pin pressed through.
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Forged Short block from Sean Hyland Hellion Turbo Kit tuned for 9-17psi Currently at 9psi making 565 RWHP 535 RWTQ
Posts: 1487
Joined: 12/19/2006 From: Northern California Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: hammeron
hey simon1, when you say ever so slightly, do you mean .020
quote:
ORIGINAL: Simon1
My new motor will be 282 ci, not stroked, but bored ever so slightly to make room for the forged pistons.
I really don't know how much they take out. The honing process probably makes the difference.
My new motor will have a displacement of 282 ci. I don't know where the extra inch comes from (I'll always take an extra inch. . . hahaha). I'm assuming a slightly lower comp ratio and some maching.
What about buying a new block like mention above?
If you get the Cobra block you will have to get a new flywheel and have the crank machined, adding heavy metal for balancing. It adds 65 lbs, made of iron and only costs $430 from Ford Racing.
Hey hammeron I wish you all the luck re-building and forging your block. I wanna do this to but Im tapped right now so I am researching too. We dont have as many good shops as the cali guys. Found this dvd on flea bay and I ve ordered it . I hope this thing helps me and will let you know if its any good. Sean Hyland, Author of the best selling book "How To Build Max-Performance 4.6 Liter Engines" shows how to rebuild Ford 4.6 / 5.4 Modular Engines in this hands-on DVD I also have seen a few books on rebuilding the 4.6
Mustangford289 stated ford sells a new longblock or shortblock 4 valve cobra motor. Hey guys Is the 4v forged motor better /capable of more hp than a forged 3v. And I wonder if the whipple would fit from a 3v setup to a 4V setup. I guess you would have Tuning issues and would the transmission bolt up?
right now, i'm in the research phase as are you. thanks to all the good folks here who contributed to the thread, i see now that this is a very serious undertaking and for it to have any chance of success, we better know what the heck we are doing, before we start.
for me, i'm basically writing my own manual and as soon as it's done, i'll get started...
good luck with your project and keep me posted along the way
quote:
ORIGINAL: ybnormal
Hey hammeron I wish you all the luck re-building and forging your block.
My SHM motor spun a rod motor a couple weeks ago and I am currently in the process of rebuilding it. Although I am going with a big bore stroker kit it looks like it is going to be fun. Dont forget you have to take your rods and pistons to a machine shop to get the wrist pin pressed through.
On horsepower tv they heated up the rod with a torch and it just slid in. I thought that was nutz at the time, but the guy is some new guru engine builder so WTF do I know.
I still think Hammeron should just buy a build block from livernois or mmr and save himself the trouble. The slight savings isn't worth it for me and i don't really care for the experience of taking tedious measurements.
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whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
Posts: 1487
Joined: 12/19/2006 From: Northern California Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: moosestang
quote:
ORIGINAL: jdback19
My SHM motor spun a rod motor a couple weeks ago and I am currently in the process of rebuilding it. Although I am going with a big bore stroker kit it looks like it is going to be fun. Dont forget you have to take your rods and pistons to a machine shop to get the wrist pin pressed through.
On horsepower tv they heated up the rod with a torch and it just slid in. I thought that was nutz at the time, but the guy is some new guru engine builder so WTF do I know.
I still think Hammeron should just buy a build block from livernois or mmr and save himself the trouble. The slight savings isn't worth it for me and i don't really care for the experience of taking tedious measurements.
I agree.
But I think we should push him forward as the guinea pig so others can learn.
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RE: Forged Rotating Kit - DIY? - 
