For those thinking of high HP - read this!
03-23-2006, 12:41 PM
#61
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RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
ORIGINAL: jbailer
chevykiller, thanks for the info. I found them after lots of searching around on Steeda's web site. I certainly don't mean to be argumentative so don't take this wrong, I have a lot of respect for the information and experience you share. I think delete kits mean remove. The rear seat delete kit is to remove the rear seat. The sway bar delete removes the sway bar rather than replace it.
My confusion was since you were talking about stronger CMCPs, I didn't understand why you were talking about delete. I've read others talking about deleting the CMCPs.
Do you know what is involved in the installation? Thanks -Joe
chevykiller, thanks for the info. I found them after lots of searching around on Steeda's web site. I certainly don't mean to be argumentative so don't take this wrong, I have a lot of respect for the information and experience you share. I think delete kits mean remove. The rear seat delete kit is to remove the rear seat. The sway bar delete removes the sway bar rather than replace it.
My confusion was since you were talking about stronger CMCPs, I didn't understand why you were talking about delete. I've read others talking about deleting the CMCPs.
Do you know what is involved in the installation? Thanks -Joe
ORIGINAL: chevykiller
The word 'delete' could be just as easily used as 'replacement' - seems to be a term widely used by the aftermarket guys like swaybar delete kit, etc. etc. It is my understanding that in addition to the better construction, they allow for much more ariflow. And you can get them from steeda.
The word 'delete' could be just as easily used as 'replacement' - seems to be a term widely used by the aftermarket guys like swaybar delete kit, etc. etc. It is my understanding that in addition to the better construction, they allow for much more ariflow. And you can get them from steeda.
03-23-2006, 04:30 PM
#62
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 757
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
I'm certainly no expert either, but my understanding is that the CMCPs have butterflies in them that restrict airflow and are actuated by a lever in the back of the intake manifold. Here's an image:
[IMG]local://upfiles/28883/7AB0F221A75B48BEAF07719B7CBF30D9.jpg[/IMG]
The Steeda plates are legitimate deletes--they remove entirely the butterfly mechanisms--somewhere I saw installation instructions that involved taking the associated levers off of the manifold.
All in all, it doesn't seem too difficult, at least not more so than taking the intake manifold on and off. The CMCPs just sit directly under the runners of the manifold, so when you take the manifold off, you just unbolt the plates, swap them for the delete plates (which are now no more than extensions of the runners), and bolt it all back together.
Hopefully others will chime in with more info.
Best,
-j
[IMG]local://upfiles/28883/7AB0F221A75B48BEAF07719B7CBF30D9.jpg[/IMG]
The Steeda plates are legitimate deletes--they remove entirely the butterfly mechanisms--somewhere I saw installation instructions that involved taking the associated levers off of the manifold.
All in all, it doesn't seem too difficult, at least not more so than taking the intake manifold on and off. The CMCPs just sit directly under the runners of the manifold, so when you take the manifold off, you just unbolt the plates, swap them for the delete plates (which are now no more than extensions of the runners), and bolt it all back together.
Hopefully others will chime in with more info.
Best,
-j
03-23-2006, 06:29 PM
#63
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RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
ORIGINAL: Philostang
I'm certainly no expert either, but my understanding is that the CMCPs have butterflies in them that restrict airflow and are actuated by a lever in the back of the intake manifold. Here's an image:
[IMG]local://upfiles/28883/7AB0F221A75B48BEAF07719B7CBF30D9.jpg[/IMG]
The Steeda plates are legitimate deletes--they remove entirely the butterfly mechanisms--somewhere I saw installation instructions that involved taking the associated levers off of the manifold.
All in all, it doesn't seem too difficult, at least not more so than taking the intake manifold on and off. The CMCPs just sit directly under the runners of the manifold, so when you take the manifold off, you just unbolt the plates, swap them for the delete plates (which are now no more than extensions of the runners), and bolt it all back together.
Hopefully others will chime in with more info.
Best,
-j
I'm certainly no expert either, but my understanding is that the CMCPs have butterflies in them that restrict airflow and are actuated by a lever in the back of the intake manifold. Here's an image:
[IMG]local://upfiles/28883/7AB0F221A75B48BEAF07719B7CBF30D9.jpg[/IMG]
The Steeda plates are legitimate deletes--they remove entirely the butterfly mechanisms--somewhere I saw installation instructions that involved taking the associated levers off of the manifold.
All in all, it doesn't seem too difficult, at least not more so than taking the intake manifold on and off. The CMCPs just sit directly under the runners of the manifold, so when you take the manifold off, you just unbolt the plates, swap them for the delete plates (which are now no more than extensions of the runners), and bolt it all back together.
Hopefully others will chime in with more info.
Best,
-j
03-23-2006, 11:02 PM
#64
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 701
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
A picture is worth 1000 words, thanks! Looking at that picture, I figure the CMCPs are the silver at the bottom of the black runners. In the case of the Steeda CMCPs, I see what Philostang is saying. They really are deletes. When you remove the factory CMCP, this billet aluminum CMCP fills that space but has no moving parts to, as they say "restrict air".
The stock CMCPs are meant to tumble the air at low RPMs to increase flow. Kind of like blowing the same volume of air through a small straw vs a big straw. If you have the same volume of air in both cases, the air moving through the small straw is moving quicker. I guess Steeda's contention is that it is not the same volume of air because the stock CMCPs restricted the flow. My thought is that Normally aspirated there is no pressure to bend these and they are fine. If you have a blower, the plates should be opened earlier or the plates will be fighting the early pressure.
You can control the RPM opening of the CMCPs with the SCT2 or Predator I believe. It would be interesting to know what blower they used and see what the air flow (direction) was like. Maybe it is a design issue of the intake runners with the particular blower. I hate to get rid of them because I'm convinced they serve a good purpose at low RPMs and at high RPMs, they are completely opened and not blocking at all. I'll see if I can discuss it with Justin when they are working on my suspension. -Joe
The stock CMCPs are meant to tumble the air at low RPMs to increase flow. Kind of like blowing the same volume of air through a small straw vs a big straw. If you have the same volume of air in both cases, the air moving through the small straw is moving quicker. I guess Steeda's contention is that it is not the same volume of air because the stock CMCPs restricted the flow. My thought is that Normally aspirated there is no pressure to bend these and they are fine. If you have a blower, the plates should be opened earlier or the plates will be fighting the early pressure.
You can control the RPM opening of the CMCPs with the SCT2 or Predator I believe. It would be interesting to know what blower they used and see what the air flow (direction) was like. Maybe it is a design issue of the intake runners with the particular blower. I hate to get rid of them because I'm convinced they serve a good purpose at low RPMs and at high RPMs, they are completely opened and not blocking at all. I'll see if I can discuss it with Justin when they are working on my suspension. -Joe
03-23-2006, 11:10 PM
#65
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
ORIGINAL: jbailer
A picture is worth 1000 words, thanks! Looking at that picture, I figure the CMCPs are the silver at the bottom of the black runners. In the case of the Steeda CMCPs, I see what Philostang is saying. They really are deletes. When you remove the factory CMCP, this billet aluminum CMCP fills that space but has no moving parts to, as they say "restrict air".
The stock CMCPs are meant to tumble the air at low RPMs to increase flow. Kind of like blowing the same volume of air through a small straw vs a big straw. If you have the same volume of air in both cases, the air moving through the small straw is moving quicker. I guess Steeda's contention is that it is not the same volume of air because the stock CMCPs restricted the flow. My thought is that Normally aspirated there is no pressure to bend these and they are fine. If you have a blower, the plates should be opened earlier or the plates will be fighting the early pressure.
You can control the RPM opening of the CMCPs with the SCT2 or Predator I believe. It would be interesting to know what blower they used and see what the air flow (direction) was like. Maybe it is a design issue of the intake runners with the particular blower. I hate to get rid of them because I'm convinced they serve a good purpose at low RPMs and at high RPMs, they are completely opened and not blocking at all. I'll see if I can discuss it with Justin when they are working on my suspension. -Joe
A picture is worth 1000 words, thanks! Looking at that picture, I figure the CMCPs are the silver at the bottom of the black runners. In the case of the Steeda CMCPs, I see what Philostang is saying. They really are deletes. When you remove the factory CMCP, this billet aluminum CMCP fills that space but has no moving parts to, as they say "restrict air".
The stock CMCPs are meant to tumble the air at low RPMs to increase flow. Kind of like blowing the same volume of air through a small straw vs a big straw. If you have the same volume of air in both cases, the air moving through the small straw is moving quicker. I guess Steeda's contention is that it is not the same volume of air because the stock CMCPs restricted the flow. My thought is that Normally aspirated there is no pressure to bend these and they are fine. If you have a blower, the plates should be opened earlier or the plates will be fighting the early pressure.
You can control the RPM opening of the CMCPs with the SCT2 or Predator I believe. It would be interesting to know what blower they used and see what the air flow (direction) was like. Maybe it is a design issue of the intake runners with the particular blower. I hate to get rid of them because I'm convinced they serve a good purpose at low RPMs and at high RPMs, they are completely opened and not blocking at all. I'll see if I can discuss it with Justin when they are working on my suspension. -Joe
I also run high boost + nitrous so that is why it is essential for me. From what I've been hearing, it really isn't a neccessity unless you're going to be running some serious boost and definitely NOT a neccessity for n/a cars as, like you said, you can adjust the flow rate with your tuner. What a great learning experience for me today too - Big thanks to all you guys...[sm=icon_rock.gif]
03-25-2006, 01:13 AM
#66
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: bay area
Posts: 1,370
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
Hey CK,
I have to build my engine back also. I was looking at the MMR blocks.. they have 2 of them.. (ones a stroker kit). Both have the 04 cobra block. I was thinking of putting a patch on mine since the damage doesn look too bad (from the outh side). Many tell me to patch it.. some are dead agaist it. Are you under the feeling that the stock alum block cant handle 600-700rwhp? I dont know what will be cheaper.. to patch the block or stich with the cobra block and accept the 80lbs more. Also if I stick with 12 psi I wont need the CMCP? Damn.. I wish this was easier =-/ .. I was thinking of pulling out the engine with a friend or 2.. Is it that hard to take out? Anywone got some instructions? I'm sooo screwed...
03-26-2006, 12:07 AM
#67
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RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
ORIGINAL: lostsoul
Hey CK,
I have to build my engine back also. I was looking at the MMR blocks.. they have 2 of them.. (ones a stroker kit). Both have the 04 cobra block. I was thinking of putting a patch on mine since the damage doesn look too bad (from the outh side). Many tell me to patch it.. some are dead agaist it. Are you under the feeling that the stock alum block cant handle 600-700rwhp? I dont know what will be cheaper.. to patch the block or stich with the cobra block and accept the 80lbs more. Also if I stick with 12 psi I wont need the CMCP? Damn.. I wish this was easier =-/ .. I was thinking of pulling out the engine with a friend or 2.. Is it that hard to take out? Anywone got some instructions? I'm sooo screwed...
Hey CK,
I have to build my engine back also. I was looking at the MMR blocks.. they have 2 of them.. (ones a stroker kit). Both have the 04 cobra block. I was thinking of putting a patch on mine since the damage doesn look too bad (from the outh side). Many tell me to patch it.. some are dead agaist it. Are you under the feeling that the stock alum block cant handle 600-700rwhp? I dont know what will be cheaper.. to patch the block or stich with the cobra block and accept the 80lbs more. Also if I stick with 12 psi I wont need the CMCP? Damn.. I wish this was easier =-/ .. I was thinking of pulling out the engine with a friend or 2.. Is it that hard to take out? Anywone got some instructions? I'm sooo screwed...
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