For those thinking of high HP - read this!
03-19-2006, 01:19 PM
#1
I ♥ Acer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,585
For those thinking of high HP - read this!
So my engine was supposed to go in last week and then the hammer drops. Turns out there is a lot more weaknesses to these new things than everyone first thought. The concensus has been that the weak link in these motors is the rods and pistons so a rebuild with forged internals should do the trick, right? WRONG...
Justin Burcham at JPC recently blew his new rebuilt motor up and after much debate, the consensus seems to be the stock charge motion plates were the culprit. Building up and giving the motor lots of HP makes for other weak links inside the block we are finding out. So I wanted to give you guys a heads up because if you are planning on going with 600+ hp, in addition to your bottom end, it appears you also now need to have these little goodies as well -
Charge motion delete plates, complete valve train and springs kit, upgraded heads or at least some work done on your stock heads.
This is something I have always known but you may not - in addition to your bottom end, if you're wanting HP, you've got to change your fuel system as well cause the HP is no good if you can't get the gas into the darn thing. Fuel rails and injectors are a must and -8 fuel lines preferred. When you start looking at ALL these things, it may turn out to be more expensive than you thought it would be. I get better deals than most (Bear that in mind) and here's what I've had to shell out so far...
302 stroker kit with rods, pistons, crank, and assembly - $2200, Valve train and springs kit - $1700, Comp cams - $650, -8 fuel lines/60 lbs injectors/injectors adapters/fuel rails - $1500, head work - $800, Charge motion delete plates - $300.
This is certainly not all I have done to my motor but these are the things you are going to have to do.(minus cams) Now you also need to take into account charges for balancing and building. Also if you're wondering about these new blocks, 650-700 HP seems to be the limit for the aluminum blocks as well so if you're looking for more than that, add a new block to the cost. Let's also not forgot that once you get all this HP you want, you have to put it to the ground so please don't be naive enough to think a cheap suspension kit from steeda or FRRP is going to do the trick cause it's not. Just to give you an idea, I have $4000 in my suspension already and I'm still spending...
Part of this post is a rant I guess cause I've been waiting a long time for this motor and just when I think it's going in, I have to spend more money and add to it some more and wait for the parts to come in, balanced, machined, prepped, installed, etc, etc. Now I'm looking at another 2-3 weeks and I have been told 2-3 weeks for 3 months. Granted, not my builders fault cause we have been finding out as we go along what we need and I don't feel like being stupid and learning things from blowing up engines...lol I am VERY proud of the fact I have been over 500 rwhp for a year on the stock engine with no problems cause I believe in building things right THE FIRST TIME.
The bottom line is that after all that I know, I would NOT do it again. I would just be happy with my 500 hp street car on the stock engine. I personally don't think the $$$'s add it up to be worth it. I'm too into it now to back out but would if I could and just thought some of you might want to know that...
Justin Burcham at JPC recently blew his new rebuilt motor up and after much debate, the consensus seems to be the stock charge motion plates were the culprit. Building up and giving the motor lots of HP makes for other weak links inside the block we are finding out. So I wanted to give you guys a heads up because if you are planning on going with 600+ hp, in addition to your bottom end, it appears you also now need to have these little goodies as well -
Charge motion delete plates, complete valve train and springs kit, upgraded heads or at least some work done on your stock heads.
This is something I have always known but you may not - in addition to your bottom end, if you're wanting HP, you've got to change your fuel system as well cause the HP is no good if you can't get the gas into the darn thing. Fuel rails and injectors are a must and -8 fuel lines preferred. When you start looking at ALL these things, it may turn out to be more expensive than you thought it would be. I get better deals than most (Bear that in mind) and here's what I've had to shell out so far...
302 stroker kit with rods, pistons, crank, and assembly - $2200, Valve train and springs kit - $1700, Comp cams - $650, -8 fuel lines/60 lbs injectors/injectors adapters/fuel rails - $1500, head work - $800, Charge motion delete plates - $300.
This is certainly not all I have done to my motor but these are the things you are going to have to do.(minus cams) Now you also need to take into account charges for balancing and building. Also if you're wondering about these new blocks, 650-700 HP seems to be the limit for the aluminum blocks as well so if you're looking for more than that, add a new block to the cost. Let's also not forgot that once you get all this HP you want, you have to put it to the ground so please don't be naive enough to think a cheap suspension kit from steeda or FRRP is going to do the trick cause it's not. Just to give you an idea, I have $4000 in my suspension already and I'm still spending...
Part of this post is a rant I guess cause I've been waiting a long time for this motor and just when I think it's going in, I have to spend more money and add to it some more and wait for the parts to come in, balanced, machined, prepped, installed, etc, etc. Now I'm looking at another 2-3 weeks and I have been told 2-3 weeks for 3 months. Granted, not my builders fault cause we have been finding out as we go along what we need and I don't feel like being stupid and learning things from blowing up engines...lol I am VERY proud of the fact I have been over 500 rwhp for a year on the stock engine with no problems cause I believe in building things right THE FIRST TIME.
The bottom line is that after all that I know, I would NOT do it again. I would just be happy with my 500 hp street car on the stock engine. I personally don't think the $$$'s add it up to be worth it. I'm too into it now to back out but would if I could and just thought some of you might want to know that...
03-19-2006, 02:10 PM
#3
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 510
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
Good post CK but there are a few more things to add to the list. You will also need some sort of fuel pump upgrade, a new drive shaft, a new clutch, a new flywheel(stock crank is 6 bolt forged crank is an 8 bolt), and at those power levels you will also need a new transmission. The only transmission upgrade I've found that will work for the 05+ is a Viper spec T-56 from D&D Performance. They have all the parts to make the T-56 work with the 05+ and it comes with an aluminum drive shaft but it cost around $5000. Now you will also want to upgrade your brakes as well if you want to be able to stop before you hit something. Two more optional things to change would be the radiator and the water pump, these cars are very prone to heat soak especially at the higher power levels.
03-19-2006, 02:35 PM
#7
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 757
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
Ditto to the staying under 450rwhp for my plans/budget...but wait? Boo-hoo to us? Well hey, if over 500 hp at the crank on my street driven car doesn't sound like a blast, I'm afraid to ask what it would take to constitute an awesome ride. I liked CK's parting comment--"just be happy with my 500 hp street car on the stock engine." I don't think that'll be a problem. 
Best,
-j
ps. -and another major ditto on the thanks to CK for sharing his experience/knowledge with us.
Best,
-j
ps. -and another major ditto on the thanks to CK for sharing his experience/knowledge with us.
03-19-2006, 02:35 PM
#8
I ♥ Acer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,585
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
ORIGINAL: GJP05
Good post CK but there are a few more things to add to the list. You will also need some sort of fuel pump upgrade, a new drive shaft, a new clutch, a new flywheel(stock crank is 6 bolt forged crank is an 8 bolt), and at those power levels you will also need a new transmission. The only transmission upgrade I've found that will work for the 05+ is a Viper spec T-56 from D&D Performance. They have all the parts to make the T-56 work with the 05+ and it comes with an aluminum drive shaft but it cost around $5000. Now you will also want to upgrade your brakes as well if you want to be able to stop before you hit something. Two more optional things to change would be the radiator and the water pump, these cars are very prone to heat soak especially at the higher power levels.
Good post CK but there are a few more things to add to the list. You will also need some sort of fuel pump upgrade, a new drive shaft, a new clutch, a new flywheel(stock crank is 6 bolt forged crank is an 8 bolt), and at those power levels you will also need a new transmission. The only transmission upgrade I've found that will work for the 05+ is a Viper spec T-56 from D&D Performance. They have all the parts to make the T-56 work with the 05+ and it comes with an aluminum drive shaft but it cost around $5000. Now you will also want to upgrade your brakes as well if you want to be able to stop before you hit something. Two more optional things to change would be the radiator and the water pump, these cars are very prone to heat soak especially at the higher power levels.
03-19-2006, 02:56 PM
#10
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 608
RE: For those thinking of high HP - read this!
Hi CK,
Thanks for the info. I read allot of posts from you before I started putting stuff on my car. Unfortunately I read your posts but did the opposite.
Well, my engine blew up on Friday......
I'm purchased a Vortech a few weeks ago and boosted it to 14PSI. There are no good tuners around Montreal so the standard tune from Vortech was <<tweaked>> by my installer without the dyno.
The engine died when I was stopped a light. I can't imagine what would have happened if I was WOT on the 1/4.
I will probably just go with forged internals and drop the boost back down to 8. I'll install a ZEX kit (75).
I will probably send my car south of the border and get it done right.
I'll know the extent of the damage on Monday.
The handhled gave me the following ( can't be good)
- Missfire #3
- Missfire #4
- Mixture too lean
Cylinder 4 looks like it's seized in there good....
[IMG]local://upfiles/24844/0D6F610876394B2898950453B293B6FA.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/24844/C65B820937F44BF6B647C72C2DD8FAFF.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/24844/926F5D509A1344028ED174943958B375.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/24844/8521C334E5BC4754B27927264CE873E6.jpg[/IMG]
