Twin Screw supercharger debate
04-19-2006, 11:21 AM
#11
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RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
I am having a Saleen SC installed next week. I like the Saleen because it has long runners for the intake and long runners = lots of torque!
As for price, my Saleen SC with 39 lb injectors is costing me similar to a KB 5psi system with an intercooler.
As for looks, both the KB and Saleen kicks a$$!
I am going to work on a "homemade" cool air induction system by opening up the driver's side bottom grill, install a duct system (similar to how NASCAR builders make their brake coolers) and then route the cold air up to the box of my K&N FIPK. I may get some hot air at idle, however when I am moving, there should be plenty of air coming into that box!
You can see my idea here at: http://www.howeracing.com/Braking/In...s-Assorted.htm the RE206 should fit that side opening very well and give me fresh air up to the air box.
Thx,
Mike
As for price, my Saleen SC with 39 lb injectors is costing me similar to a KB 5psi system with an intercooler.
As for looks, both the KB and Saleen kicks a$$!
I am going to work on a "homemade" cool air induction system by opening up the driver's side bottom grill, install a duct system (similar to how NASCAR builders make their brake coolers) and then route the cold air up to the box of my K&N FIPK. I may get some hot air at idle, however when I am moving, there should be plenty of air coming into that box!
You can see my idea here at: http://www.howeracing.com/Braking/In...s-Assorted.htm the RE206 should fit that side opening very well and give me fresh air up to the air box.
Thx,
Mike
04-19-2006, 01:35 PM
#12
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: MikeVistaBlue06
I am having a Saleen SC installed next week. I like the Saleen because it has long runners for the intake and long runners = lots of torque!
I am having a Saleen SC installed next week. I like the Saleen because it has long runners for the intake and long runners = lots of torque!
Mike, I am familar with how long, narrow, runners are beneficial to naturally aspirated engines. I even remember discussing that back in my I.C. Engines class in College. However, I was under the impression that none of that mattered when the engine has forced induction. Does it actually make a difference with the S/C?
04-19-2006, 02:18 PM
#13
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RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
The saleen series VI blower is the most efficient screw blower out there, not even close. It uses a dual intercooler/heat exchanger system. Because of it's efficient dual H/E system and long intake runners, it can be spun slower to make the same hp the KB will make, which makes it even more efficient, not building as much heat. There is no better positive displacment blower than Saleens right now. And it's not that much more $ than the KB. Get the Saleen unit. Oh, and as far as pullies go, Chicane autosport sells them for the Saleen unit. Or, you could actually take the stock pulley to a machine shop, and have them jig you a smaller one off of the original. It's not rocket science.
04-19-2006, 10:48 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5
RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
You said "The Saleen unit will still be more efficient with it's inverted design, and long intake runners. But the Whipple unit is an excellent unit that I think will be better than KB's."
Why do you feel the Whipple will be better than KB?
Why do you feel the Whipple will be better than KB?
04-20-2006, 01:13 AM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5
RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: kss3valve
The car is falling at 1000ft because the blower is dropping off at the RPM that we are turning. Couple of things that are causing that.
1. The stock heat exchager is not efficient enough to cool the intake charge down.
2. The Blower creates an enormous amount of heat above 6200 rpm.
Sorry about the misprint, I meant to say when we go with a AFTERMARKET power adder. There will be a Whipple on the car very soon.
9's would be great, lets see if the block holds together. I have my doubts.
The car is falling at 1000ft because the blower is dropping off at the RPM that we are turning. Couple of things that are causing that.
1. The stock heat exchager is not efficient enough to cool the intake charge down.
2. The Blower creates an enormous amount of heat above 6200 rpm.
Sorry about the misprint, I meant to say when we go with a AFTERMARKET power adder. There will be a Whipple on the car very soon.
9's would be great, lets see if the block holds together. I have my doubts.
What advantage does kss3valve see in the whipple, because it is the same compressor. (the W140ax)
I e-mailed JDM asking about their Saleen, this is what they told me:
With our car we had:
Saleen blower kit
Xcal2 w/ custom tune
90mm MAF
3.8 Blower pulley (~6.5psi)
Kooks headers w/ X pipe
Catback
4.10 gears
And that put us at 436RWHP/440RWTQ and it ran 11.69@116mph.
Hey sidmanic, what would your HP and TRQ #s be at a lower elevation, say 1000ft? I am very impressed with your numbers.
JDMs numbers are in New Jersey, way lower elevation plus they had headers.
04-20-2006, 05:02 AM
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 326
RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: Neo_PS2
Does the Saleen manifolds long intake runners only help at low RPMs? Similar to carburated engines, long runner dual plane is good for street driving(low RPM).
What advantage does kss3valve see in the whipple, because it is the same compressor. (the W140ax)
I e-mailed JDM asking about their Saleen, this is what they told me:
With our car we had:
Saleen blower kit
Xcal2 w/ custom tune
90mm MAF
3.8 Blower pulley (~6.5psi)
Kooks headers w/ X pipe
Catback
4.10 gears
And that put us at 436RWHP/440RWTQ and it ran 11.69@116mph.
Hey sidmanic, what would your HP and TRQ #s be at a lower elevation, say 1000ft? I am very impressed with your numbers.
JDMs numbers are in New Jersey, way lower elevation plus they had headers.
ORIGINAL: kss3valve
The car is falling at 1000ft because the blower is dropping off at the RPM that we are turning. Couple of things that are causing that.
1. The stock heat exchager is not efficient enough to cool the intake charge down.
2. The Blower creates an enormous amount of heat above 6200 rpm.
Sorry about the misprint, I meant to say when we go with a AFTERMARKET power adder. There will be a Whipple on the car very soon.
9's would be great, lets see if the block holds together. I have my doubts.
The car is falling at 1000ft because the blower is dropping off at the RPM that we are turning. Couple of things that are causing that.
1. The stock heat exchager is not efficient enough to cool the intake charge down.
2. The Blower creates an enormous amount of heat above 6200 rpm.
Sorry about the misprint, I meant to say when we go with a AFTERMARKET power adder. There will be a Whipple on the car very soon.
9's would be great, lets see if the block holds together. I have my doubts.
What advantage does kss3valve see in the whipple, because it is the same compressor. (the W140ax)
I e-mailed JDM asking about their Saleen, this is what they told me:
With our car we had:
Saleen blower kit
Xcal2 w/ custom tune
90mm MAF
3.8 Blower pulley (~6.5psi)
Kooks headers w/ X pipe
Catback
4.10 gears
And that put us at 436RWHP/440RWTQ and it ran 11.69@116mph.
Hey sidmanic, what would your HP and TRQ #s be at a lower elevation, say 1000ft? I am very impressed with your numbers.
JDMs numbers are in New Jersey, way lower elevation plus they had headers.
One thing I forgot to put on my signature is that mine is an automatic. I don't think the guy doing the dyno was completely schooled in his profession because of the one upsurge that happened at 5300 rpm (might have been the torque converter??? Don't know). I'm going to be running it again before long to see what the deal was on the last one. Couple of things I wanted to point out; Did the dyno running 20" wheels and a steady 11.5 AF. I know that I can lean it out a little more and get more out of it. This is my around town pony's. I got a 10psi pulley and a race tune for the track, along with a set of slicks. One other thing to mention is that I can swap a pulley at any time and there is no need to change the tune. The tune is the same regardless of the pulley I'm running, just need to ensure that I am running enough octane to cover the increase in pressure. As far as what it should be pulling at 1000', this dyno is supposed to be corrected (SAE) for the altitude difference to sea level. I think it should be pulling more but I will have to wait for the next dyno run. I put the altitude up more for the difference in quarter mile time and speed, its not corrected.
04-21-2006, 12:43 AM
#17
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Location: Goodyear, AZ
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RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
I don't think that the plastic manifold on the Saleen is a dis-advantage. It may even be an advantage! Plastic is lighter than aluminum. Also, it doesn't conduct heat very well, which helps to prevent heat from the engine from warming up the intake air. Someone probably got it in their head that plastic is "weak"....but think about what the manifold is actually doing: even at maximum boost the pressure is what, 10-12 psi? Shake up a 2-liter of coke and you've got more pressure than that--and the coke bottle doesn't rupture despite being extremely thin. I wouldn't worry about the strength of the plastic manifold.
ORIGINAL: Neo_PS2
Disadvantages to each:
KB Have heard bad things about customer service, Have to cut car to make install their CAI
Whipple Expensive, hard to find
Saleen Expensive, have heard the intercooler is small, plastic intake manifold, pulies only available from JDM for now
Disadvantages to each:
KB Have heard bad things about customer service, Have to cut car to make install their CAI
Whipple Expensive, hard to find
Saleen Expensive, have heard the intercooler is small, plastic intake manifold, pulies only available from JDM for now
I don't think that the plastic manifold on the Saleen is a dis-advantage. It may even be an advantage! Plastic is lighter than aluminum. Also, it doesn't conduct heat very well, which helps to prevent heat from the engine from warming up the intake air. Someone probably got it in their head that plastic is "weak"....but think about what the manifold is actually doing: even at maximum boost the pressure is what, 10-12 psi? Shake up a 2-liter of coke and you've got more pressure than that--and the coke bottle doesn't rupture despite being extremely thin. I wouldn't worry about the strength of the plastic manifold.
The Saleen twin screw supercharger does not have a plastic manifold. The supercharger is one complete unit.... screw rotors, intake manifold and intercooler are all in one aluminum unit. They are an effecient unit with easy install and Great looks.
04-21-2006, 01:31 AM
#18
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,225
RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: sidmanic
I should have some specs concerning the Volumetric Effeciency of the Whipple and the KB in a couple of days. Can't find anything on the Saleen. Hmmmmm. I will post them when I get um.
I should have some specs concerning the Volumetric Effeciency of the Whipple and the KB in a couple of days. Can't find anything on the Saleen. Hmmmmm. I will post them when I get um.
04-21-2006, 01:38 AM
#19
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RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: hawgman
I have asked this to someone from Saleen in a thread on another board ( that unfortunately I STILL cant post a link to on here because the mods seem to feel that the words modular and ford when typed together voilate their language filter rules ) and his reply was the Volumetric Efficiency of the Saleen Series VI was 94%.
ORIGINAL: sidmanic
I should have some specs concerning the Volumetric Effeciency of the Whipple and the KB in a couple of days. Can't find anything on the Saleen. Hmmmmm. I will post them when I get um.
I should have some specs concerning the Volumetric Effeciency of the Whipple and the KB in a couple of days. Can't find anything on the Saleen. Hmmmmm. I will post them when I get um.
m o d u l a r f o r d s . c o m would you? Little internet secret - space the letters of any link to bypass filters...[sm=oopssign.gif]
04-21-2006, 01:43 AM
#20
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RE: Twin Screw supercharger debate
ORIGINAL: chevykiller
Hey hawg, you wouldn't be talking about...
m o d u l a r f o r d s . c o m would you? Little internet secret - space the letters of any link to bypass filters...[sm=oopssign.gif]
Hey hawg, you wouldn't be talking about...
m o d u l a r f o r d s . c o m would you? Little internet secret - space the letters of any link to bypass filters...[sm=oopssign.gif]
Yea, I know how to get around it. That is just my way of once again pointing out how ( rediculous it is in my opinion ) they have filtered links to that site but say they didn't filter it, it just is magically picked up by the language filter for some unknown mysterious reason.