Oil Change at dealership
05-14-2006, 12:58 AM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TX
Posts: 304
RE: Oil Change at dealership
From your post on shear and hydrocracked oils I have a feeling you know what viscocity is...but I'll play (I have a bit of knowledge here since I worked for a specialty lubricant manufacturer for several years and ate lunch with the chemists often 
Viscocity is basically the ability of an oil to resist shear...since you posted about shear I'll only take the bait that far
Viscocity is basically the ability of an oil to resist shear...since you posted about shear I'll only take the bait that far
05-14-2006, 01:15 AM
#13
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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RE: Oil Change at dealership
Oh sh**, ya got me......... let me think.
Really, the viscosity of the oil is known as the "thickness". A 5 vis is very thin, this allows it to get to the heads, valve train, cam shaft.......... quicker, at "start up"
Multigrades are your 5W30's, 15W40's, 10W30's etc.. Multigrade oils have the "W", which means winter. In other words, a 10W30 has the viscosity of 10 @ O degrees, and the viscosity of 30 @ operating temperature.
Multigrades came about to satisfy all manufacturers, as they have NO control if the product they sell is in San Diego or Green Bay on, let's say, Jan 15. They needed an oil to meet climate extremes, and protect the motor.
For the $, a mutligrade pure mineral stock base (not syn) 5W30, is your best bet, the vendor / manufacturer of choice,....... is yours
JMO
Really, the viscosity of the oil is known as the "thickness". A 5 vis is very thin, this allows it to get to the heads, valve train, cam shaft.......... quicker, at "start up"
Multigrades are your 5W30's, 15W40's, 10W30's etc.. Multigrade oils have the "W", which means winter. In other words, a 10W30 has the viscosity of 10 @ O degrees, and the viscosity of 30 @ operating temperature.
Multigrades came about to satisfy all manufacturers, as they have NO control if the product they sell is in San Diego or Green Bay on, let's say, Jan 15. They needed an oil to meet climate extremes, and protect the motor.
For the $, a mutligrade pure mineral stock base (not syn) 5W30, is your best bet, the vendor / manufacturer of choice,....... is yours
JMO
05-14-2006, 01:55 AM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TX
Posts: 304
RE: Oil Change at dealership
Its so hard to figure out where you are coming from Lejay...one minute you are talking about shear and hydrocracked oil like a chemist and the next you are talking about grades of oil like you are one of us lay-folk....I am glad you were not banned.
"Really" - by which I mean from a technical perspective - viscocity is a measure of flow, and varies inversely (logarithmic) with temperature...the blending of grades of oil does allow for products that are intended to support just what you say...wide market-use by addressing various operating temperatures.
I do disagree about the stock base...synthetic bases CAN (depends on the ingenuity of the R&D folks) allow manufacturers to create blends that are higher performing...not quite the "drain your oil pan and run all day" type of hype, but improved performance none the less. I've seen the insides of NASCAR vehicle engine/brake/transmission components after the car hit the wall hard (but not wreck), continue the race and DRAIN the fluid during the run, and not have a lubricant failure...try that with a mineral base stock...so if by $ you mean price on the shelf..sure the non-syns are cheaper and are all about the same...but SOME of the synthetics do have added value.
Anyway, to Claytone's second question, yes I believe there are likely differences between synthetics.
"Really" - by which I mean from a technical perspective - viscocity is a measure of flow, and varies inversely (logarithmic) with temperature...the blending of grades of oil does allow for products that are intended to support just what you say...wide market-use by addressing various operating temperatures.
I do disagree about the stock base...synthetic bases CAN (depends on the ingenuity of the R&D folks) allow manufacturers to create blends that are higher performing...not quite the "drain your oil pan and run all day" type of hype, but improved performance none the less. I've seen the insides of NASCAR vehicle engine/brake/transmission components after the car hit the wall hard (but not wreck), continue the race and DRAIN the fluid during the run, and not have a lubricant failure...try that with a mineral base stock...so if by $ you mean price on the shelf..sure the non-syns are cheaper and are all about the same...but SOME of the synthetics do have added value.
Anyway, to Claytone's second question, yes I believe there are likely differences between synthetics.
05-14-2006, 02:07 AM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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RE: Oil Change at dealership
Your 2nd paragraph,... lost me, I'm not sure what u r saying. Viscosity means viscosity, thick or thin. (5 thin... 50 thick), and unless its a multigrade, 5 will be 5, and 50 will be 50, regardless of temp.
No, I'm not a chemist, but, I think, I do have a great understanding of motor / engine oils.
But, I'm willing to learn more. Please carry on.
No, I'm not a chemist, but, I think, I do have a great understanding of motor / engine oils.
But, I'm willing to learn more. Please carry on.
05-14-2006, 01:38 PM
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Posts: 276
RE: Oil Change at dealership
This forum is soooooo educational. Tell me more Mr Wizard. Geeeeesh the guy just wanted to know about oil changes at the dealers.
Some people should not venture from the "Off Topic" section. Actually it's all off topic.
Some people should not venture from the "Off Topic" section. Actually it's all off topic.
05-15-2006, 09:58 AM
#18
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 254
RE: Oil Change at dealership
Someone told me that I should take my Stang in the local Ford Dealership for my first oil change (just hit 3,000 this week since I bought it JUne 2005). This way they have it in their computer that it was changed in case I need warranty work done. This way they cant blame you for not changing the oil when something breaks on your Stang. I am taking it to a really good guy that builds Mustangs and owns his own garage/body shop. He's a friend of the family and neighborhood. I can trust him since his love for these cars. The people at Ford Dealership dont care about scratching your paint or screwing up your rims when they rotate your tires. I'm not taking any chances with these people.
I think it would be pretty hard for them to prove that you didn't have it done or done it yourself......
I think it would be pretty hard for them to prove that you didn't have it done or done it yourself......
05-15-2006, 11:57 AM
#19
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Posts: 200
RE: Oil Change at dealership
Just for FYI, oil that you use in your car does change viscosity. That is y they use the label 5W30. This means that when the car is cold the viscosity will be at a 5 weight oil and when the car reaches temp near 210 deg. F the weight will have changed to 30 weight. Check out this explination below:
The viscosity of an oil could be reported at any temperature, but to standardize things, most laboratories report either a low temp (100F or 40C) or a high temp (210F or 100C) and stick with either Fahrenheit or Celsius. The standardized temperature reading allows us to compare apples to apples for judging the thickness of the oil.
An apple is an apple, no matter what language you use to describe it. In the same respect, there are many ways to describe viscosity: SAE Engine, SUS (Seybolt Universal Seconds), cSt (Centistokes), ISO grade, etc. We use SUS. No matter what you call it, the number given simply defines the thickness of the oil at the standard high temperature.
Straight Weight vs. Multi-Grade
Engine oils can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oils were straight weights. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi -viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.
The difference between multi-grades and straight-weight oils is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined to the SAE 5 weight viscosity range containing the usual cleaning and anti-wear additives, then blended with a VI additive that should leave it reading in the SAE 30 weight range when at the higher (210F) temperature. The advantage to the multi-weight is, when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil has the thickness of an SAE 5 weight, which allows the engine to spin over more easily.
Changes in Viscosity
Adding anything foreign to your oil can change its viscosity. Some types of after-market oil additives cause a quite high viscosity at operating temperature. While an additive might improve bearing wear, it can often cause poorer upper-end wear.
Other changes to viscosity can result from contamination of the oil. Moisture and fuel can both cause the viscosity to increase or decrease, depending on the contaminant and how long it has been present in the oil. Antifreeze often increases an oil's viscosity. Exposure to excessive heat (leaving the oil in use too long, engine overheating) can also increase viscosity. When your oil's viscosity comes back as either lower or higher than the "Should Be" range, something is causing it. The key is to find out what it is and repair your engine or adjust your driving habits accordingly, to correct the viscosity and optimize your engine's efficiency.
If you decide to use a different viscosity oil than what the manufacturer recommends, you might want to use oil analysis while you are experimenting. Your wear data doesn't lie. People selling oils and additives may be sincere, but they don't have to live with the results. They simply smile a lot on the way to the bank.
Synthetic oils differ because they are blended specifically to resist the thermal break down you would normally have with mineral oil. They also have better additves for cleaning and corrosion proctection for your enigine.
IMO I would change the oil myself and use Castrol fully synthetic, since this is what ford uses in most of their race engines. I know this because Castrol is owned by BP. BP and Ford are partners for development in many racing applications.
The viscosity of an oil could be reported at any temperature, but to standardize things, most laboratories report either a low temp (100F or 40C) or a high temp (210F or 100C) and stick with either Fahrenheit or Celsius. The standardized temperature reading allows us to compare apples to apples for judging the thickness of the oil.
An apple is an apple, no matter what language you use to describe it. In the same respect, there are many ways to describe viscosity: SAE Engine, SUS (Seybolt Universal Seconds), cSt (Centistokes), ISO grade, etc. We use SUS. No matter what you call it, the number given simply defines the thickness of the oil at the standard high temperature.
Straight Weight vs. Multi-Grade
Engine oils can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oils were straight weights. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi -viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.
The difference between multi-grades and straight-weight oils is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined to the SAE 5 weight viscosity range containing the usual cleaning and anti-wear additives, then blended with a VI additive that should leave it reading in the SAE 30 weight range when at the higher (210F) temperature. The advantage to the multi-weight is, when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil has the thickness of an SAE 5 weight, which allows the engine to spin over more easily.
Changes in Viscosity
Adding anything foreign to your oil can change its viscosity. Some types of after-market oil additives cause a quite high viscosity at operating temperature. While an additive might improve bearing wear, it can often cause poorer upper-end wear.
Other changes to viscosity can result from contamination of the oil. Moisture and fuel can both cause the viscosity to increase or decrease, depending on the contaminant and how long it has been present in the oil. Antifreeze often increases an oil's viscosity. Exposure to excessive heat (leaving the oil in use too long, engine overheating) can also increase viscosity. When your oil's viscosity comes back as either lower or higher than the "Should Be" range, something is causing it. The key is to find out what it is and repair your engine or adjust your driving habits accordingly, to correct the viscosity and optimize your engine's efficiency.
If you decide to use a different viscosity oil than what the manufacturer recommends, you might want to use oil analysis while you are experimenting. Your wear data doesn't lie. People selling oils and additives may be sincere, but they don't have to live with the results. They simply smile a lot on the way to the bank.
Synthetic oils differ because they are blended specifically to resist the thermal break down you would normally have with mineral oil. They also have better additves for cleaning and corrosion proctection for your enigine.
IMO I would change the oil myself and use Castrol fully synthetic, since this is what ford uses in most of their race engines. I know this because Castrol is owned by BP. BP and Ford are partners for development in many racing applications.
05-30-2006, 12:03 AM
#20
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 19
RE: Oil Change at dealership
as a ford tech. i dont care what dealership you take it to, they all go by the same warranty. most dealerships dont care about mods untill it comes in with a problem, and somthing aftermarket, or tampered with is an issue of why it was brought in. example: you put a super charger on it, and the engine fails, then you have a problem. as far as exaust goes, cat back systems will not void warranty. body kits, voids absolutly nothing, lowering your car, voids nothing, cold air intake, voids nothing as long as it is not force induction, and the engine is sucking through a clean air filter. as far as oil changes go, the customer can request/bring thier own oil and/or filter,
ask for an oil sample. most dealerships wont go through the hassle of paper trails and phone tag if you bring in a modded car for an oil change. but like i said, if you have after market mods, and bring it in for a drivabilty issue, theres a problem. i know of many people that have modded cars, most do them themselves, but keep the factory parts, and if somthing goes wrong, then they take it all off, slap the factory parts back on, then have it towwed in. classic example is the 6.0L diesel powestrokes. people put banks 6 shooters on them, part of the install on those are to drill a hole in the drivers side exaust manifold, and install a pryometer (exaust temp sensor) in it. ford does not have a pyrometer located there, and would give ford a probable cause of having an aftermarket device installed, therefore they void the warranty.-just thought the info might help.
ask for an oil sample. most dealerships wont go through the hassle of paper trails and phone tag if you bring in a modded car for an oil change. but like i said, if you have after market mods, and bring it in for a drivabilty issue, theres a problem. i know of many people that have modded cars, most do them themselves, but keep the factory parts, and if somthing goes wrong, then they take it all off, slap the factory parts back on, then have it towwed in. classic example is the 6.0L diesel powestrokes. people put banks 6 shooters on them, part of the install on those are to drill a hole in the drivers side exaust manifold, and install a pryometer (exaust temp sensor) in it. ford does not have a pyrometer located there, and would give ford a probable cause of having an aftermarket device installed, therefore they void the warranty.-just thought the info might help.