NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
06-06-2006, 12:06 AM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 198
NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
First of all, thanks for the help.
I've been thinking about a 2006 Mustang convertible, and like most things I should have focused on it earlier. So now I'm on the verge of ordering a 2007 to get exactly the car I want. Here are some things I would appreciate getting feedback on.
1. Ordering A Ford. They are telling me 8 to 12 weeks. The salesman says that it is highly likely that I will have the car by August 15th.
Should I trust them? I've seen on the web that the Shaker 1000 is a problem, and that alone will cause a delay. I just don't want to be bitching and moaning in Sept. The car will be a completely loaded GT premium convertible with a 5 spd. stick (no pony or Cali package); black with black/red interior.
2. GT Appearance Package. Can I get this without the hood scoop? I really just want the exhaust tips and the engine cover.
3. Premier Trim Package. It's new for 2007. Has anyone seen it? Pictures? Basically it sounds like a padded dash. I am inclined to order it but I have not seen it and am interested in others' opinions who may know. I intend to keep the car and want it with essentially all options.
4. Shaker Audio. I've read these boards over the last couple of days and have learned a tremendous amount. I want the car stock in appearance and really have no interest in an aftermarket radio. I am going with the Shaker 1000. Does anyone have it? I read some bad press about the Shaker 500, but what about the 1000?
5. Spoiler. I am going to go spoiler delete. Has anyone done this? Are you happy with the looks of the car?
6. Hurst Shifter. I intend to put one on as soon as I get the car. Have all the bugs been worked out? Seems from what I have read, they have but I thought I would ask.
7. Quality. And finally quality. After reading these boards, some of the problems that you guys have experienced (gas tank filling, electrical, etc.) raised my eyebrows a little. Am I correct in thinking that these problems are the exceptions? No, I am not expecting a Lexus, but if Honda can make a flawless vehicle for this price bracket, Ford should be able to match or come close. Sorry to bring up "rice" as you say, but this is how I think.
So, thanks. I am the proud father of twin 12 yr. old girls. We are looking for the car to be a part of their growing up, and presumably one day they will be driving it to high school. So thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate the time you take to post any thoughts that you may have.
I've been thinking about a 2006 Mustang convertible, and like most things I should have focused on it earlier. So now I'm on the verge of ordering a 2007 to get exactly the car I want. Here are some things I would appreciate getting feedback on.
1. Ordering A Ford. They are telling me 8 to 12 weeks. The salesman says that it is highly likely that I will have the car by August 15th.
Should I trust them? I've seen on the web that the Shaker 1000 is a problem, and that alone will cause a delay. I just don't want to be bitching and moaning in Sept. The car will be a completely loaded GT premium convertible with a 5 spd. stick (no pony or Cali package); black with black/red interior.
2. GT Appearance Package. Can I get this without the hood scoop? I really just want the exhaust tips and the engine cover.
3. Premier Trim Package. It's new for 2007. Has anyone seen it? Pictures? Basically it sounds like a padded dash. I am inclined to order it but I have not seen it and am interested in others' opinions who may know. I intend to keep the car and want it with essentially all options.
4. Shaker Audio. I've read these boards over the last couple of days and have learned a tremendous amount. I want the car stock in appearance and really have no interest in an aftermarket radio. I am going with the Shaker 1000. Does anyone have it? I read some bad press about the Shaker 500, but what about the 1000?
5. Spoiler. I am going to go spoiler delete. Has anyone done this? Are you happy with the looks of the car?
6. Hurst Shifter. I intend to put one on as soon as I get the car. Have all the bugs been worked out? Seems from what I have read, they have but I thought I would ask.
7. Quality. And finally quality. After reading these boards, some of the problems that you guys have experienced (gas tank filling, electrical, etc.) raised my eyebrows a little. Am I correct in thinking that these problems are the exceptions? No, I am not expecting a Lexus, but if Honda can make a flawless vehicle for this price bracket, Ford should be able to match or come close. Sorry to bring up "rice" as you say, but this is how I think.
So, thanks. I am the proud father of twin 12 yr. old girls. We are looking for the car to be a part of their growing up, and presumably one day they will be driving it to high school. So thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate the time you take to post any thoughts that you may have.
06-06-2006, 02:16 AM
#2
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 143
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
I have a black 2005 vert that I bought in March when they were clearing them out, so I had to take what they had left.
It had the Shaker 1000, pemium package, IUP, leather, V6, automatic, traction conrol, spoiler, remote start, and a vinyl rally stripe.
The sticker price was 31700, I bartered them down to 25000 (plus tax), and the thing that sealed the deal was when they offered me 3 years at 0% financing.
Other than the fact that my salesperson knows less about the vehicle he sold me than I do I am very happy with the car.
However there is no way I would have paid $1300 for the Shaker 1000 (especially when the shaker 500 comes as part of the premium package).
If you are going to go with a factory radio the Shaker 500 has had many issues so be aware of its shaky past.
You really can get a much better aftermarket radio for a lot less money, and since you say you plan on keeping this car a while you really should consider going that route.
At least they have added the Aux input to the Shaker radios now so you will be able to hook up an mp3 player or ipod (on the 05 and 06 shakers you have to add an external adapter to make the Aux input work, $90 I will have to be spending soon).
Whichever way you decide to go I hope you enjoy your Stang as much as I have so far !!!
It had the Shaker 1000, pemium package, IUP, leather, V6, automatic, traction conrol, spoiler, remote start, and a vinyl rally stripe.
The sticker price was 31700, I bartered them down to 25000 (plus tax), and the thing that sealed the deal was when they offered me 3 years at 0% financing.
Other than the fact that my salesperson knows less about the vehicle he sold me than I do I am very happy with the car.
However there is no way I would have paid $1300 for the Shaker 1000 (especially when the shaker 500 comes as part of the premium package).
If you are going to go with a factory radio the Shaker 500 has had many issues so be aware of its shaky past.
You really can get a much better aftermarket radio for a lot less money, and since you say you plan on keeping this car a while you really should consider going that route.
At least they have added the Aux input to the Shaker radios now so you will be able to hook up an mp3 player or ipod (on the 05 and 06 shakers you have to add an external adapter to make the Aux input work, $90 I will have to be spending soon).
Whichever way you decide to go I hope you enjoy your Stang as much as I have so far !!!
06-06-2006, 02:21 AM
#3
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,313
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
1. Ordering A Ford. They are telling me 8 to 12 weeks. The salesman says that it is highly likely that I will have the car by August 15th.
Should I trust them? I've seen on the web that the Shaker 1000 is a problem, and that alone will cause a delay. I just don't want to be bitching and moaning in Sept. The car will be a completely loaded GT premium convertible with a 5 spd. stick (no pony or Cali package); black with black/red interior.
***I wouldent trust them. I ended up taking an 06 becasue of availibility problems. I was planning to order mine a month ago and they were telling me late august and that was changing an existing order with a late june estimated build. Assuming that there were no 5 speed trans shortages it would be July. But every dealer I called said to expect a 16 week wait. A local dealer still cant get 5 speed stick cars to save himself. Especially verts. Expect to wait for the car, if it comes in early, great. Whatever you do, make sure you get a VIN and build date asap. You may want to reconsider the shaker 1000. The speakers are still factory wizzer cone jobbies and it adds a ton of heft to the trunk.
2. GT Appearance Package. Can I get this without the hood scoop? I really just want the exhaust tips and the engine cover.
*** I have the tips on mine. Came from the factory with them in the trunk. Engine cover you should be able to order at some point or go aftermarket.
3. Premier Trim Package. It's new for 2007. Has anyone seen it? Pictures? Basically it sounds like a padded dash. I am inclined to order it but I have not seen it and am interested in others' opinions who may know. I intend to keep the car and want it with essentially all options.
***Havent seen it, couldent get details on it. No dealer had pictures of it. No brochures yet. Nicer stitched trim and aluminum pedals sound nice but I believe it also includes two tone seats. So light graphite leather would have dark charcoal centers or bolsters depending on how they do it. And the door panel and carpet color schemes are different I believe.
4. Shaker Audio. I've read these boards over the last couple of days and have learned a tremendous amount. I want the car stock in appearance and really have no interest in an aftermarket radio. I am going with the Shaker 1000. Does anyone have it? I read some bad press about the Shaker 500, but what about the 1000?
***I would listen to both and go from there. I have heard equal trouble about both. And to me, adding weight to the car was not cool and the 500 sounded pretty nice so I went with that. The mid range of it is a little flat (as is the 1000 I hear). A few guys have upgraded the speakers to nicer infinitys which look perfectly stock under the factory grills and supposidly sound better. To me the 1000 is an expensive upgrade for what you get.
5. Spoiler. I am going to go spoiler delete. Has anyone done this? Are you happy with the looks of the car?
***Just personal preference here. If you are going to add a aftermarket spoiler, leave it off. To me, the car looks too plain without the spoiler since the back is kinda plain to begin with and I happen to like the factory one. So I left it on.
6. Hurst Shifter. I intend to put one on as soon as I get the car. Have all the bugs been worked out? Seems from what I have read, they have but I thought I would ask.
***Factory shifter isnt that bad. I like it so far. I hear some people have problems with the hurst. But there are alot of shifters out there.
7. Quality. And finally quality. After reading these boards, some of the problems that you guys have experienced (gas tank filling, electrical, etc.) raised my eyebrows a little. Am I correct in thinking that these problems are the exceptions? No, I am not expecting a Lexus, but if Honda can make a flawless vehicle for this price bracket, Ford should be able to match or come close. Sorry to bring up "rice" as you say, but this is how I think.
***I consider the quality to be very good. Gas tank filling is a small bug but is widespread. Sometimes the pump will shut off at 3/4 full. It has only happened to me once in the month I have had the car. I dont know what you mean by flawless. Mine had zero defects from the factory. No paint flaws, no panel fit problems, etc, etc. I havent had any issues to date.
Are there little things that could be better, sure. But they are minor really.
Should I trust them? I've seen on the web that the Shaker 1000 is a problem, and that alone will cause a delay. I just don't want to be bitching and moaning in Sept. The car will be a completely loaded GT premium convertible with a 5 spd. stick (no pony or Cali package); black with black/red interior.
***I wouldent trust them. I ended up taking an 06 becasue of availibility problems. I was planning to order mine a month ago and they were telling me late august and that was changing an existing order with a late june estimated build. Assuming that there were no 5 speed trans shortages it would be July. But every dealer I called said to expect a 16 week wait. A local dealer still cant get 5 speed stick cars to save himself. Especially verts. Expect to wait for the car, if it comes in early, great. Whatever you do, make sure you get a VIN and build date asap. You may want to reconsider the shaker 1000. The speakers are still factory wizzer cone jobbies and it adds a ton of heft to the trunk.
2. GT Appearance Package. Can I get this without the hood scoop? I really just want the exhaust tips and the engine cover.
*** I have the tips on mine. Came from the factory with them in the trunk. Engine cover you should be able to order at some point or go aftermarket.
3. Premier Trim Package. It's new for 2007. Has anyone seen it? Pictures? Basically it sounds like a padded dash. I am inclined to order it but I have not seen it and am interested in others' opinions who may know. I intend to keep the car and want it with essentially all options.
***Havent seen it, couldent get details on it. No dealer had pictures of it. No brochures yet. Nicer stitched trim and aluminum pedals sound nice but I believe it also includes two tone seats. So light graphite leather would have dark charcoal centers or bolsters depending on how they do it. And the door panel and carpet color schemes are different I believe.
4. Shaker Audio. I've read these boards over the last couple of days and have learned a tremendous amount. I want the car stock in appearance and really have no interest in an aftermarket radio. I am going with the Shaker 1000. Does anyone have it? I read some bad press about the Shaker 500, but what about the 1000?
***I would listen to both and go from there. I have heard equal trouble about both. And to me, adding weight to the car was not cool and the 500 sounded pretty nice so I went with that. The mid range of it is a little flat (as is the 1000 I hear). A few guys have upgraded the speakers to nicer infinitys which look perfectly stock under the factory grills and supposidly sound better. To me the 1000 is an expensive upgrade for what you get.
5. Spoiler. I am going to go spoiler delete. Has anyone done this? Are you happy with the looks of the car?
***Just personal preference here. If you are going to add a aftermarket spoiler, leave it off. To me, the car looks too plain without the spoiler since the back is kinda plain to begin with and I happen to like the factory one. So I left it on.
6. Hurst Shifter. I intend to put one on as soon as I get the car. Have all the bugs been worked out? Seems from what I have read, they have but I thought I would ask.
***Factory shifter isnt that bad. I like it so far. I hear some people have problems with the hurst. But there are alot of shifters out there.
7. Quality. And finally quality. After reading these boards, some of the problems that you guys have experienced (gas tank filling, electrical, etc.) raised my eyebrows a little. Am I correct in thinking that these problems are the exceptions? No, I am not expecting a Lexus, but if Honda can make a flawless vehicle for this price bracket, Ford should be able to match or come close. Sorry to bring up "rice" as you say, but this is how I think.
***I consider the quality to be very good. Gas tank filling is a small bug but is widespread. Sometimes the pump will shut off at 3/4 full. It has only happened to me once in the month I have had the car. I dont know what you mean by flawless. Mine had zero defects from the factory. No paint flaws, no panel fit problems, etc, etc. I havent had any issues to date.
Are there little things that could be better, sure. But they are minor really.
06-06-2006, 02:58 AM
#4
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 782
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
I would consider 12 weeks delivery for an 07 vert EXCEPTIONAL, 8 weeks is a f***ing joke. Truth is..... from what I've heard, delivery would be more like Oct, maybe Nov, IF you ordered now. (Unless you have a dealer with clout.)
You may be able to delete the scoop, but, probably not. If you order a Premium, you get the Shaker 500, like it or not. The upgrade to 1000 is way overpriced.
AT one time automatics were a delay, now, everyone wants a TR3650, and they are in short supply.
Everything good be better on anything, but, the quality on the MUSTANG, is IMO a mid 8, on a 1-10 scale. My body lines are tight and even, the paint is perfect, and it's everything I expected and more. I've tried to duplicate the fill up problem, and can't do it.(only tried 3 times). Perhaps, it's been fixed, mine was built May 11.
H**da might build a flawless car for the price bracket, but the biggest part of the money in a MUSTANG is in the engine, drive train, body design, and stamping of the body. This is a "muscle car", not a 4dr semi-luxury car. So compare features, not prices.
GOOD LUCK, and order 2,.......................... 1 for each twin. They won't take turns, and will fight over it all the time. So get 2 now !!!
You may be able to delete the scoop, but, probably not. If you order a Premium, you get the Shaker 500, like it or not. The upgrade to 1000 is way overpriced.
AT one time automatics were a delay, now, everyone wants a TR3650, and they are in short supply.
Everything good be better on anything, but, the quality on the MUSTANG, is IMO a mid 8, on a 1-10 scale. My body lines are tight and even, the paint is perfect, and it's everything I expected and more. I've tried to duplicate the fill up problem, and can't do it.(only tried 3 times). Perhaps, it's been fixed, mine was built May 11.
H**da might build a flawless car for the price bracket, but the biggest part of the money in a MUSTANG is in the engine, drive train, body design, and stamping of the body. This is a "muscle car", not a 4dr semi-luxury car. So compare features, not prices.
GOOD LUCK, and order 2,.......................... 1 for each twin. They won't take turns, and will fight over it all the time. So get 2 now !!!
06-06-2006, 01:57 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 311
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
Mine has spoiler delete. 2,000 miles procharged and none of the commonly heard of problems.... crossing my fingers. No fill problem, no electrical problems. Just the normal complaints: the throttle-by-wire.
Here's the spolier delete for ya!
Here's the spolier delete for ya!
06-06-2006, 03:01 PM
#7
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 34
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
I ordered my deluxe loaded (except the Shaker 1000) black 2006 GT ragtop on Sept. 9, 2005 and was told 8 to 12 weeks. I got the car on January 15, 2006. Evidently they had some problems at the factory. So far, the car has been just outstanding in every way, except for an occasional annoying rattle and squeak in the dash that I'm pretty sure is caused by the interior upgrade panels. So, I think you may end up waiting a little longer, but it'll be well worth it. Oh, and if there were a single option I wish I could have gotten on mine, it would have been heated seats. They weren't available on the '06, but they are now, so I would definitely get them.
06-06-2006, 03:27 PM
#8
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: maryland
Posts: 47
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
Congrats on ordering a vert. You will love it. Two things I would think about. the shaker 1000 I understand has a trunk mounted sub-woofer, I don't know how much room this would leave you. The well for the roof to retract in takes up quite a bit of room already throw the woofer in there and there may be nothing left. Second, don't waste your money on the top cover. Check out old thread very few ever use it ,mine is still in the bag it came in. I've had no issues with mine (8000 miles) except a few rattles here and there.Turn up the radio put the top down load the twins in and enjoy the ride.Good Luck.
06-06-2006, 06:00 PM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 209
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
Lessee.
- I was considering waiting to order a 2007 as there was a couple things I wanted in that car (heated seats for instance) but I figured I'd just add on what I missed after the fact and I wanted to enjoy the car for the summer. Most dealerships here were telling me if I ordered ASAP it would be early Oct. as a most likely delivery day. I'd say that's pretty accurate based on my friends convertible order last year.
- The dealer should be able to tell you about the hood scoop. If they don't know, press them to find out for sure. I wouldn't want it installed either.
- For the trim package, do a search for 2007 Mustang order guide. One of the Mustang sites (can't remember which) has the order guide in a .PDF file that instructs the dealers on what each feature is basically and provides other info. May be useful to help you decide.
- I wouldn't bother with the Shaker 1000. It's quite easy to improve the quality of the 500 if needed. I was going to add an amp and sub to the 500 system, Scosche makes a neatly fitting sub box. But after having the car this past few days I don't know that I will do much outside of swapping the door and rear deck speakers to some better quality ones.
- Spoiler? Yeah I'd go without. That is the only thing with my car I wanted different but I took one off of a lot so I got what I got. That being said I got the EXACT car I wanted down to the colour and options which was a miracle (only one of two left in Canada with these options and colour combo). I can take the wing off, fill the holes and go or replace it so I'm not too worried. If you even think you may end up with a different one later just do the spoiler delete and it makes it much easier to pick a new wing later.
- Hurst shifter? Don't know, have an Auto.
- Build quality? No car is flawless, I can guarantee you that. I know Honda's and Toys and other Japanese cars make a mighty fine built vehicle but they are rarely ever 100% perfect. The only car I had that had nothing fail was a Protege 5. I drove it for 2 3/4 years and did nothing but change oil and rotate the tires. That being said the platform it was on was a well sorted out one dating back some 10 years. My follow up car a Mazda 3 was left only 3 months old dead on the side of the road when the fuel pump died. A month and a half wait for the parts to arrive from Japan was a fine kick in the junk.
- I was considering waiting to order a 2007 as there was a couple things I wanted in that car (heated seats for instance) but I figured I'd just add on what I missed after the fact and I wanted to enjoy the car for the summer. Most dealerships here were telling me if I ordered ASAP it would be early Oct. as a most likely delivery day. I'd say that's pretty accurate based on my friends convertible order last year.
- The dealer should be able to tell you about the hood scoop. If they don't know, press them to find out for sure. I wouldn't want it installed either.
- For the trim package, do a search for 2007 Mustang order guide. One of the Mustang sites (can't remember which) has the order guide in a .PDF file that instructs the dealers on what each feature is basically and provides other info. May be useful to help you decide.
- I wouldn't bother with the Shaker 1000. It's quite easy to improve the quality of the 500 if needed. I was going to add an amp and sub to the 500 system, Scosche makes a neatly fitting sub box. But after having the car this past few days I don't know that I will do much outside of swapping the door and rear deck speakers to some better quality ones.
- Spoiler? Yeah I'd go without. That is the only thing with my car I wanted different but I took one off of a lot so I got what I got. That being said I got the EXACT car I wanted down to the colour and options which was a miracle (only one of two left in Canada with these options and colour combo). I can take the wing off, fill the holes and go or replace it so I'm not too worried. If you even think you may end up with a different one later just do the spoiler delete and it makes it much easier to pick a new wing later.
- Hurst shifter? Don't know, have an Auto.
- Build quality? No car is flawless, I can guarantee you that. I know Honda's and Toys and other Japanese cars make a mighty fine built vehicle but they are rarely ever 100% perfect. The only car I had that had nothing fail was a Protege 5. I drove it for 2 3/4 years and did nothing but change oil and rotate the tires. That being said the platform it was on was a well sorted out one dating back some 10 years. My follow up car a Mazda 3 was left only 3 months old dead on the side of the road when the fuel pump died. A month and a half wait for the parts to arrive from Japan was a fine kick in the junk.
06-06-2006, 07:47 PM
#10
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 198
RE: NEED HELP - About to order a 2007 Convertible
Original Poster here. Thanks for all the great input.
Went back to the dealer today. I'm about ready to pull the trigger, and here's how its shaping up.
GT Convertible
Clearcoat Black
Red Interior (see below)
5 spd. manual
Interior Upgrade Package
Premium Trim Package (new)
Comfort Group (6-way passenger seat, heated seats & compass)
Anti-Theft System
Front Seat Airbags
Boot
18" Polished Aluminum Wheels
Shaker 1000
Sattelite Radio Feature
3:55 Rear End
Wheel Locks
Spoiler Delete
Charcoal Dash Panel
Salesman is a nice guy (young man). It would be better if he knew more about the vehicle particularly the 2007 changes. Here are my questions.
1. I grilled him today on delivery. It's a high volume dealer, and he's confident that I'll have the car in August. He also tells me that he can not modify a dealer convertible order already in the factory to make it my car.
2. He tells me that the red interior with the Premium Trim Package (padded dash & armrests) means that the car will have red seat inserts, and not an entire red seat. Does this sound right? The new chamois color would be the same, and it's cool but I think red will make it more of a sports car / muscle car.
3. I can come pretty close to this car in an 2006 off the lot with the exception of heated seats which are new for 2007. I'm going to keep the car for a long time. Am I correct in thinking that it will be worth forgoing a summer's fun for heated seats later. Sure welcome any feedback on this from owners in a similiar climate. I'm in the Midwest.
I'll have Mobil 1 and a Hurst shifter in it within a couple of days of delivery, and it's done. Am I missing anything?
Sure appreciate all the fine input, and while a couple of my choices may be counter to a couple of the replies made I certainly respect everyone's opinion. Thank You.
Went back to the dealer today. I'm about ready to pull the trigger, and here's how its shaping up.
GT Convertible
Clearcoat Black
Red Interior (see below)
5 spd. manual
Interior Upgrade Package
Premium Trim Package (new)
Comfort Group (6-way passenger seat, heated seats & compass)
Anti-Theft System
Front Seat Airbags
Boot
18" Polished Aluminum Wheels
Shaker 1000
Sattelite Radio Feature
3:55 Rear End
Wheel Locks
Spoiler Delete
Charcoal Dash Panel
Salesman is a nice guy (young man). It would be better if he knew more about the vehicle particularly the 2007 changes. Here are my questions.
1. I grilled him today on delivery. It's a high volume dealer, and he's confident that I'll have the car in August. He also tells me that he can not modify a dealer convertible order already in the factory to make it my car.
2. He tells me that the red interior with the Premium Trim Package (padded dash & armrests) means that the car will have red seat inserts, and not an entire red seat. Does this sound right? The new chamois color would be the same, and it's cool but I think red will make it more of a sports car / muscle car.
3. I can come pretty close to this car in an 2006 off the lot with the exception of heated seats which are new for 2007. I'm going to keep the car for a long time. Am I correct in thinking that it will be worth forgoing a summer's fun for heated seats later. Sure welcome any feedback on this from owners in a similiar climate. I'm in the Midwest.
I'll have Mobil 1 and a Hurst shifter in it within a couple of days of delivery, and it's done. Am I missing anything?
Sure appreciate all the fine input, and while a couple of my choices may be counter to a couple of the replies made I certainly respect everyone's opinion. Thank You.