Power loss with 20's?
#41
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
If I am not mistaken 22 for the rim and 28 for the tire or the other way around. It is either, can someone be more exact on this? I remember the total was 50lbs.
Att. Andrew
Att. Andrew
#42
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
I'm interested in the stock weight as well. I ordered my 07' and was gonna stick some 20"s on it right after it arrived. In terms of 1/4 mile times, what would you think the time difference would be? .1, .05? Guess I'll just have to put on a supercharger to make up the power loss. Let me go tell the wife...
#43
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
GrabberOrange,
LOL! Your question is legit but it makes me laugh as that is exactly my whole point!
There will be a trade off as assuming you should get better traction with running a tire with larger contact patch but with possibly more weight you will have to over come or absorb the performance loss (OMG I just typed that) when it comes to acceration rate of velocity. (you guys like that one huh)
I don’t think many can answer your question because we have no accurate measurement of IF or HOW MUCH you can launch harder therefore you will be quicker but accelerate slower as the car moves down the track! IMO the 20’s would have a greater impact to provide more of a difference in the 1/8 mile than the ¼ mile as everyone’s argument is truly accelerating rotating mass! One thing is for sure if the race never ended and with enough data we could graph this and these two lines would intersect somewhere! WHEW!
To answer what I thought was a question; Do I think 20” rims are better for drag racing then say 17” or 18”? Nope! I just don’t like generalized statements against something that are unfounded! There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
Sometimes I just have too much fun! 05SDI
LOL! Your question is legit but it makes me laugh as that is exactly my whole point!
There will be a trade off as assuming you should get better traction with running a tire with larger contact patch but with possibly more weight you will have to over come or absorb the performance loss (OMG I just typed that) when it comes to acceration rate of velocity. (you guys like that one huh)
I don’t think many can answer your question because we have no accurate measurement of IF or HOW MUCH you can launch harder therefore you will be quicker but accelerate slower as the car moves down the track! IMO the 20’s would have a greater impact to provide more of a difference in the 1/8 mile than the ¼ mile as everyone’s argument is truly accelerating rotating mass! One thing is for sure if the race never ended and with enough data we could graph this and these two lines would intersect somewhere! WHEW!
To answer what I thought was a question; Do I think 20” rims are better for drag racing then say 17” or 18”? Nope! I just don’t like generalized statements against something that are unfounded! There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
Sometimes I just have too much fun! 05SDI
#44
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
20" for looks the cons are they ride rough, less side wall give under power results in wheel spin on hard take off's
with 17's " I was 2 tenths faster 1/4 mile may have had one rotation
with 17's " I was 2 tenths faster 1/4 mile may have had one rotation
#45
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
I had the stock 18's on my 06GT. I bought the Roush 18's which are 18x10.
Dunno what stock are 18x8 or 8.5?
I also had to get bigger wheels for them.. from stock to 275/40 18.
I couldnt find anywhere that told the weight of the Roush wheels.
I wonder how much power or acceleration I lost....?
Dunno what stock are 18x8 or 8.5?
I also had to get bigger wheels for them.. from stock to 275/40 18.
I couldnt find anywhere that told the weight of the Roush wheels.
I wonder how much power or acceleration I lost....?
#46
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
I stare at fat women, that doesn't mean i like them.
ORIGINAL: slow07
I changed from 18" fanblades to 20" wheels with nearly stock size tires (I don't remember the size, and the car is not with me). Anyway my arm scale nor my buttdyno could tell a noticeable difference. However, my eye-attention meter could tell a big difference. I can't go anywhere without people starring at the car.
I changed from 18" fanblades to 20" wheels with nearly stock size tires (I don't remember the size, and the car is not with me). Anyway my arm scale nor my buttdyno could tell a noticeable difference. However, my eye-attention meter could tell a big difference. I can't go anywhere without people starring at the car.
#47
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
Any chance you could be less general?
ORIGINAL: 05SDI
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
#48
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
A good CAI + Tune is worth 25 or so HP on average. I'd say a 10 HP loss is about right for the average set of 20's. Thus, the modded car with the 20's would still be better off than a stock GT, but by less of a margin than he otherwise would.
Go to the "other forum" (m o d u l a r f o r d s). There are numerous firsthand dyno experiences described there. The proof of the power loss is EMPIRICAL.
By the way, I HAVE weighed the OEM wheels, and they only differ by about half a pound each between 17" and 18". That's not enough to see a significant change in performance. However, I have handled and weighed some 20" wheels that were 18 lbs HEAVIER than the oem wheels. Ouch!!!!
The issue is the WEIGHT of the wheel-tire combo. Of course, there are heavy wheels in all sizes. However, the logic goes like this: The TYPICAL 20" wheel, or "Dub" if you prefer that term, is not made with performance in mind. It is designed for style. As such, weight is a very minor concern, if it is a concern at all. Thus the AVERAGE 20" wheel is significantly heavier than the OEM 17" and 18" wheels. Think about it, the average person cares about what their wheels look like. You might ask your buddies or your fellow forum members "what do you think about these wheels for my car" and then point to a picture. You see guys like Chip Foose design wheels on TV. He gets out a sketch pad and draws what he thinks looks good. That's shopping based on LOOKS. How often do you see someone shop around for wheels by asking for weights? Or even better, moment of inertia? That information is difficult to find becasue the average customer doesn't care about those specs. Consequently they are also less important for the wheel makers.
A 20" wheel is not a performance wheel, at least not on these cars. The 20 will leave you with a very thin sidewall, which in addition to making your ride uncomfortable, also greatly reduces the torsional sidewall give in the tires--and that is key to getting a good hookup on the drag strip. Take a look at what the serious drag racers are doing: They ditch the OEM wheels and they go through a lot of effort to modify the rear end so they can put on 16" or 15" wheels in the back. That lets them put some serious wrinkle-wall tires on there.
Sure, you could get your 20's with some nice, wide, grippy tires. And that might be better than stock for traction (Due to the tires and the extra width). But getting the same type of tire on 18" or 17" rims would be even better. Then you'd have the added contact area and the sticky rubber but less of the weight. The serious racers known this. That's why they run 15" Bogarts that weight half what the OEM wheels do, and give them a nice fat wrinkewall sidewall.
BUT, a lot of people don't do that becasue 20" wheels are the hot style these days. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just about everything on these cars is a compromise of one sort or another. If you like your 20's, great! More power to you. But understand that if your wheels are particularly heavy (which most 20s are) then you will loose some power becasue of it.
ORIGINAL: 05SDI
Were in the heck did you pull those numbers from?
SO your saying someone with a good CAI & tune wearing 20" will be even in RWHP as a 100% stock GT?
I THINK NOT!
All you guys saying larger rims hurt performance; Here is your perfect example:
Do you have any proof that the GT’s with 18" rims are slower then the GT’s with 17" rims......
I THINK NOT!
Were in the heck did you pull those numbers from?
SO your saying someone with a good CAI & tune wearing 20" will be even in RWHP as a 100% stock GT?
I THINK NOT!
All you guys saying larger rims hurt performance; Here is your perfect example:
Do you have any proof that the GT’s with 18" rims are slower then the GT’s with 17" rims......
I THINK NOT!
Go to the "other forum" (m o d u l a r f o r d s). There are numerous firsthand dyno experiences described there. The proof of the power loss is EMPIRICAL.
By the way, I HAVE weighed the OEM wheels, and they only differ by about half a pound each between 17" and 18". That's not enough to see a significant change in performance. However, I have handled and weighed some 20" wheels that were 18 lbs HEAVIER than the oem wheels. Ouch!!!!
The issue is the WEIGHT of the wheel-tire combo. Of course, there are heavy wheels in all sizes. However, the logic goes like this: The TYPICAL 20" wheel, or "Dub" if you prefer that term, is not made with performance in mind. It is designed for style. As such, weight is a very minor concern, if it is a concern at all. Thus the AVERAGE 20" wheel is significantly heavier than the OEM 17" and 18" wheels. Think about it, the average person cares about what their wheels look like. You might ask your buddies or your fellow forum members "what do you think about these wheels for my car" and then point to a picture. You see guys like Chip Foose design wheels on TV. He gets out a sketch pad and draws what he thinks looks good. That's shopping based on LOOKS. How often do you see someone shop around for wheels by asking for weights? Or even better, moment of inertia? That information is difficult to find becasue the average customer doesn't care about those specs. Consequently they are also less important for the wheel makers.
A 20" wheel is not a performance wheel, at least not on these cars. The 20 will leave you with a very thin sidewall, which in addition to making your ride uncomfortable, also greatly reduces the torsional sidewall give in the tires--and that is key to getting a good hookup on the drag strip. Take a look at what the serious drag racers are doing: They ditch the OEM wheels and they go through a lot of effort to modify the rear end so they can put on 16" or 15" wheels in the back. That lets them put some serious wrinkle-wall tires on there.
Sure, you could get your 20's with some nice, wide, grippy tires. And that might be better than stock for traction (Due to the tires and the extra width). But getting the same type of tire on 18" or 17" rims would be even better. Then you'd have the added contact area and the sticky rubber but less of the weight. The serious racers known this. That's why they run 15" Bogarts that weight half what the OEM wheels do, and give them a nice fat wrinkewall sidewall.
BUT, a lot of people don't do that becasue 20" wheels are the hot style these days. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just about everything on these cars is a compromise of one sort or another. If you like your 20's, great! More power to you. But understand that if your wheels are particularly heavy (which most 20s are) then you will loose some power becasue of it.
#49
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
ORIGINAL: moosestang
Any chance you could be less general?
Any chance you could be less general?
ORIGINAL: 05SDI
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
http://www.americanmuscle.com/black-...el-20x8-5.html
with 245/35 will allow more rwhp than 17x9.5 chrome spinners with 295/50
#50
RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again!
I guess I could always throw on my stock 17" wheels when I go to the track and burn them off there. I emailed American Racing to see if they will provide me with the weight of the wheel I want (AR Rogue Black, 20 x 8.5). Does anyone know if there is a weight savings with the tire having a smaller sidewall and how the total wheel/tire weight compares?