Horsepower naturally aspirated?
12-17-2006, 09:36 PM
#21
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
ORIGINAL: Daniel60
All Motor Guru's' why can't Ford make a mustang stock with these cams? Is money really the reason? What does these cams do that the stock ones' don't?
All Motor Guru's' why can't Ford make a mustang stock with these cams? Is money really the reason? What does these cams do that the stock ones' don't?
However, you need to look at the bigger picture. First off, the cams NEED other supporting mods. Yes, Brenspeed (and others) have gotten 35-40 RWHP out of the cams, but that's on a car that already has longtube headers, no CMCPs, a significantly larger then OEM intake, a new TB, and a different tune. If you were to change JUST the cams, you'd see a very small upgrade in power. There's a guy on m odularfords who changed the cams without headers and if I remember right, he barely got 20 HP. Also look again at Brenspeed's article. They saw a 20-ish HP gain at first. It wasn't until they added a larger TB and a really big intake that they saw the full gain.
That being said, if Ford wanted to make the cams work from the factory, they'd have to pay attention to all these other areas: exhaust, intake ducting, TB, and so on. This would definatley be a financial concern. Also keep in mind that Ford is also concerned about fuel economy--both for the Mustang and for their Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers, AND they are concerned about emissions. The cams and their supporting mods (design changes) affect this too.
Finally, more agressive cams do put more wear and tear on the valvetrain. They usually have higher lifts and they have steeper opening and closing rates. This puts more force on the rockers, springs, and the cams themselves...another issue that Ford has to be concerned with.
12-17-2006, 10:49 PM
#22
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
ORIGINAL: Sleeper05
Quick S--Full bolt ons costs significantly more than you are estimating. Trust me, I have everything and then some.
Quick S--Full bolt ons costs significantly more than you are estimating. Trust me, I have everything and then some.
Steeda drag pak S1 $579.
Exhaust work including Pypes X-Pipe $488.
SCT tuner $370.
GMS CAI $350.
Steeda pullies $209.
Gears + install $500.
tires and rims $2000.
----------------------------------------------------
MY Total $4496.
And so far, I have about half this stuff now, Which gets me back to my first statement, in my orginal posting, it all depends on what goals you have for the car. if your goal is to have 400+ HP, then SC is the way to go, because achieving that N/A is going to be costly, unless like someone mention earlier you are hell bent on doing it N/A. My goal is quarter mile times, So I mod as I go, take runs down the track to see where I am, and what Mod I need to do next, just like someone who is trying to hit a certain WHP number, they Mod, go to a Dyno, and see what they need to do next. [sm=smiley20.gif]
12-18-2006, 07:44 AM
#24
I ♥ Acer
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
go forced if you are really looking for hp. This modular engines dont really make hp on motor like the old 5.0's used to. I have done quiet a few mods on my car but the only one I will have to remove is the cai for the turbo. The rest has been rear end stuff, pullies, shorties, ccmv's.
Att. Andrew
Att. Andrew
12-18-2006, 06:49 PM
#26
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
Excellent response and very well presented. Thank you. I'm thinking 4;10 is my next mod because I'm poor.
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
Money, at least for the cams themselves, is definatley not the issue. Ford could make cams with a different grind with no change in manufacturing cost whatsoever.
However, you need to look at the bigger picture. First off, the cams NEED other supporting mods. Yes, Brenspeed (and others) have gotten 35-40 RWHP out of the cams, but that's on a car that already has longtube headers, no CMCPs, a significantly larger then OEM intake, a new TB, and a different tune. If you were to change JUST the cams, you'd see a very small upgrade in power. There's a guy on m odularfords who changed the cams without headers and if I remember right, he barely got 20 HP. Also look again at Brenspeed's article. They saw a 20-ish HP gain at first. It wasn't until they added a larger TB and a really big intake that they saw the full gain.
That being said, if Ford wanted to make the cams work from the factory, they'd have to pay attention to all these other areas: exhaust, intake ducting, TB, and so on. This would definatley be a financial concern. Also keep in mind that Ford is also concerned about fuel economy--both for the Mustang and for their Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers, AND they are concerned about emissions. The cams and their supporting mods (design changes) affect this too.
Finally, more agressive cams do put more wear and tear on the valvetrain. They usually have higher lifts and they have steeper opening and closing rates. This puts more force on the rockers, springs, and the cams themselves...another issue that Ford has to be concerned with.
ORIGINAL: Daniel60
All Motor Guru's' why can't Ford make a mustang stock with these cams? Is money really the reason? What does these cams do that the stock ones' don't?
All Motor Guru's' why can't Ford make a mustang stock with these cams? Is money really the reason? What does these cams do that the stock ones' don't?
However, you need to look at the bigger picture. First off, the cams NEED other supporting mods. Yes, Brenspeed (and others) have gotten 35-40 RWHP out of the cams, but that's on a car that already has longtube headers, no CMCPs, a significantly larger then OEM intake, a new TB, and a different tune. If you were to change JUST the cams, you'd see a very small upgrade in power. There's a guy on m odularfords who changed the cams without headers and if I remember right, he barely got 20 HP. Also look again at Brenspeed's article. They saw a 20-ish HP gain at first. It wasn't until they added a larger TB and a really big intake that they saw the full gain.
That being said, if Ford wanted to make the cams work from the factory, they'd have to pay attention to all these other areas: exhaust, intake ducting, TB, and so on. This would definatley be a financial concern. Also keep in mind that Ford is also concerned about fuel economy--both for the Mustang and for their Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers, AND they are concerned about emissions. The cams and their supporting mods (design changes) affect this too.
Finally, more agressive cams do put more wear and tear on the valvetrain. They usually have higher lifts and they have steeper opening and closing rates. This puts more force on the rockers, springs, and the cams themselves...another issue that Ford has to be concerned with.
12-19-2006, 02:43 AM
#27
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
ORIGINAL: vsop
Tell that to Al at Boss330 racing who is running a 9.2 with a N/A 5.4l carbed motor...
They can make lots of HP N/A its just cheaper for most and simpler to go the FI route
Tell that to Al at Boss330 racing who is running a 9.2 with a N/A 5.4l carbed motor...
They can make lots of HP N/A its just cheaper for most and simpler to go the FI route
Andrew
12-19-2006, 02:55 AM
#28
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
ORIGINAL: androdz
5.4L is not out motor like I said our engines there isn't tha tmuch you can do going n/a.
Andrew
ORIGINAL: vsop
Tell that to Al at Boss330 racing who is running a 9.2 with a N/A 5.4l carbed motor...
They can make lots of HP N/A its just cheaper for most and simpler to go the FI route
Tell that to Al at Boss330 racing who is running a 9.2 with a N/A 5.4l carbed motor...
They can make lots of HP N/A its just cheaper for most and simpler to go the FI route
Andrew
You said these modular motors.. The 5.4L is a mod motor.
The simple truth is that no one has really tried to push the 3v very far N/A. There are plenty of 4v motors that have been pushed N/A and most that build a race mod motor go carbed.
I have not seen anyone do this with the 4.6L. But I bet if you stroked the 4.6L bumped up the compression, went with race heads with a matching cam you could make some good power. If it was for just race throw on a sheetmetal intake with a big carb and stick on a cam driven distributor and I would be they could get 550-600hp out of the engine N/A.
But why do it with a 3v when the 4v heads wold be a better launching point and the 5.4l block will give you more cubes and can be stroked to 6.1L
I'll be shooting for as close to 400rwhp as I can get N/A once I finish up the suspension in January. Next up in performance mods is the stage 2 heads with new valves, springs & retainers (going to see if I can source +1mm Titanium intake valves) and new cams.
Then when fast releases the intake, I will look into that with a new TB (either have the stock one machined to a single butterfly and have a custom plate cut for it or see what the aftermarket will have by then. The GT500/V-10 TB is also an option)
12-19-2006, 03:08 AM
#29
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
I'm getting my dyno tune on Wednesday. I have everything bolt-on...and I mean everything that does not involve opening the motor (unless you count CMCP's opening the motor). I have 20in wheels, so whatever I am at, putting on 15in weld racing wheels would gain me ~20rwhp over Wednesday's number. I'll update in this thread, or start a new one. I have put way too much money in this car haha.
12-19-2006, 03:20 AM
#30
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RE: Horsepower naturally aspirated?
So then you have the same as me, but you probably also have an After Market Throttle Body and maybe the Electric Water Pump.
The only other mod I can think of to add HP is an Aluminum Drive shaft. But I'm holding off on one till I can get pricing on a TR-6060 swap
The only other mod I can think of to add HP is an Aluminum Drive shaft. But I'm holding off on one till I can get pricing on a TR-6060 swap