Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
07-10-2007, 11:28 PM
#11
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Now in Sunny SOCAL
Posts: 1,308
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
You are right Rodeo,rotating massor engine drivenweight which includes the entire drive train including the wheels, tires, hubs, disc brakes, axles, driveline, clutch, flywheel and transmissionare the biggest horsepower suckers on a vehicle. Making these items lighter will have a much greater impact on performance than by just removing unsprung gross vehicle weight. There is much info on this subject available on the internet and in print. In fact there is info available that clearly shows great improvement in 1/4 mile and 60' times by using light weight drag tires and wheels.Times can improve by over .5 second in the 1/4 mile and up to .2 seconds for 60'.The dataclearly shows that any weight you can remove from the driveline is always a greater performance mod. I'm pulling some cobwebs out of my head trying to remember but I believe that it's at least atwo to one ratio for performanceby remove rotating mass, versus unsprung weight.
ORIGINAL: RodeoFlyer
I'm 6 Sam Adams to the wind and don't have the time or energy to get into it tonite but if you check back tommorrow nite I will post it all for you.
It's about rotating mass and unsprung weight. I'll post drawings and ****. I highly recomend hitting the bookstore.
I'm 6 Sam Adams to the wind and don't have the time or energy to get into it tonite but if you check back tommorrow nite I will post it all for you.
It's about rotating mass and unsprung weight. I'll post drawings and ****. I highly recomend hitting the bookstore.
07-10-2007, 11:48 PM
#13
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dana Point
Posts: 241
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
Every pound of rotational weight is equal to 8 pounds gross weight or something like that. I maybe wrong on the exact figure but I think I am very close
07-11-2007, 12:53 AM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
Honestly, it just doesnt make sense to me... There doesn't seem to be rotational weight when the thing is pushing against the same weight gears to move the same weight car. Whether a driveshaft is 1lb or 50lbs its still at a deadstop when it sits against the heavy car weight and needs to start pushing it.
I admit you guys are right and Im wrong, but it just doesnt make sense in that aspect.
Now.... Weight mattering when the car is coasting off of the gas, as in the driveshaft is not pushing on the gears, and also in neutral, I can understand why a light driveshaft would spin up much quicker, but thats the only time that makes sense.
I admit you guys are right and Im wrong, but it just doesnt make sense in that aspect.
Now.... Weight mattering when the car is coasting off of the gas, as in the driveshaft is not pushing on the gears, and also in neutral, I can understand why a light driveshaft would spin up much quicker, but thats the only time that makes sense.
07-11-2007, 01:30 AM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 346
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
Im sure someone will explain better but the really really basic idea so you dont need to study the thing to understand is.
Torque is a rotational force. And torque is also what spins your driveshaft. So lowering the weight of the driveshaft means less torque is needed to provide the appropriate force to turn it. This in turn means more torque is getting to the gears thus making that easier to turn which in turn makes the wheels, brakes etc easier to turn. There is no pushing force as such just a rotational force and if you reduce the weight of 1 rotation part it allows more torque to get to the rest as less is needed to spin that 1 part.
At the same time providing more wheel hp and torque.
Thats the simple way of explaining it anyway. Sure someone else can fluff it up and going into lots more details and calculations.
If i messed anything up in my explanation my excuse is its 7:40am and I have not slept yet. And my brain somewhat turned to mush around 4 hours ago.
Torque is a rotational force. And torque is also what spins your driveshaft. So lowering the weight of the driveshaft means less torque is needed to provide the appropriate force to turn it. This in turn means more torque is getting to the gears thus making that easier to turn which in turn makes the wheels, brakes etc easier to turn. There is no pushing force as such just a rotational force and if you reduce the weight of 1 rotation part it allows more torque to get to the rest as less is needed to spin that 1 part.
At the same time providing more wheel hp and torque.
Thats the simple way of explaining it anyway. Sure someone else can fluff it up and going into lots more details and calculations.
If i messed anything up in my explanation my excuse is its 7:40am and I have not slept yet. And my brain somewhat turned to mush around 4 hours ago.
07-11-2007, 07:17 AM
#16
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 880
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
It in no way will shave half a second to a full second off your 1/4 times!It WILL shave on average 2 tenths from your 1/4 times & in some cases a little more.That is a huge differance for $480.00!Talk to SPYDER for exact time saved on those cars.Your friend should stay in "school" if he told you that it shaved a half second or better!
ORIGINAL: lldsandsll
for a second there i thought i was the only one thinking that way. i could have sworn people were claiming half second to full second taken off the 1/4, sounded obscene to me. some guy i used to know got one, thinkin it would make a huge difference. he thought he was too cool for school with that thing.
they just lighten the car right? and make itaone piece as well.as far as the kerthunk, i can totally understand wanting to get rid of that. my car doesnt do that, either that or i dont realize it.
ORIGINAL: ohnoesaz
Thats exactly why the gains are not that greatly, maybe 1/10th of a second? No matter how light something is, it doesn't change the fact that its pushing against a gear and trying to move the same weight as the other driveshaft was trying to move.
Who knows....
I do know itd be nice having a one piece driveshaft to get rid of the KERTHUNK of the stock shaft's front half hitting the back half to get it moving....
But you're right about the other stuff.
ORIGINAL: lldsandsll
i'm curious, i understand that the driveshaft can spin up a lot more when it's lighter but two things:
1) won't a heavier one allow it more momentum?
2) what differenc does the weight of the shaft truly make when it still has to spin the gears and move all the weight of the car, in other words even if it does spin up quicker in neutral, what difference can this possible make once the gears are engaged?
i'm curious, i understand that the driveshaft can spin up a lot more when it's lighter but two things:
1) won't a heavier one allow it more momentum?
2) what differenc does the weight of the shaft truly make when it still has to spin the gears and move all the weight of the car, in other words even if it does spin up quicker in neutral, what difference can this possible make once the gears are engaged?
Who knows....
I do know itd be nice having a one piece driveshaft to get rid of the KERTHUNK of the stock shaft's front half hitting the back half to get it moving....
But you're right about the other stuff.
they just lighten the car right? and make itaone piece as well.as far as the kerthunk, i can totally understand wanting to get rid of that. my car doesnt do that, either that or i dont realize it.
07-11-2007, 09:12 AM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: S.Florida
Posts: 1,612
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
ORIGINAL: Norse1974
It in no way will shave half a second to a full second off your 1/4 times!It WILL shave on average 2 tenths from your 1/4 times & in some cases a little more.That is a huge differance for $480.00!Talk to SPYDER for exact time saved on those cars.Your friend should stay in "school" if he told you that it shaved a half second or better!
It in no way will shave half a second to a full second off your 1/4 times!It WILL shave on average 2 tenths from your 1/4 times & in some cases a little more.That is a huge differance for $480.00!Talk to SPYDER for exact time saved on those cars.Your friend should stay in "school" if he told you that it shaved a half second or better!
ORIGINAL: lldsandsll
for a second there i thought i was the only one thinking that way. i could have sworn people were claiming half second to full second taken off the 1/4, sounded obscene to me. some guy i used to know got one, thinkin it would make a huge difference. he thought he was too cool for school with that thing.
they just lighten the car right? and make itaone piece as well.as far as the kerthunk, i can totally understand wanting to get rid of that. my car doesnt do that, either that or i dont realize it.
ORIGINAL: ohnoesaz
Thats exactly why the gains are not that greatly, maybe 1/10th of a second? No matter how light something is, it doesn't change the fact that its pushing against a gear and trying to move the same weight as the other driveshaft was trying to move.
Who knows....
I do know itd be nice having a one piece driveshaft to get rid of the KERTHUNK of the stock shaft's front half hitting the back half to get it moving....
But you're right about the other stuff.
ORIGINAL: lldsandsll
i'm curious, i understand that the driveshaft can spin up a lot more when it's lighter but two things:
1) won't a heavier one allow it more momentum?
2) what differenc does the weight of the shaft truly make when it still has to spin the gears and move all the weight of the car, in other words even if it does spin up quicker in neutral, what difference can this possible make once the gears are engaged?
i'm curious, i understand that the driveshaft can spin up a lot more when it's lighter but two things:
1) won't a heavier one allow it more momentum?
2) what differenc does the weight of the shaft truly make when it still has to spin the gears and move all the weight of the car, in other words even if it does spin up quicker in neutral, what difference can this possible make once the gears are engaged?
Who knows....
I do know itd be nice having a one piece driveshaft to get rid of the KERTHUNK of the stock shaft's front half hitting the back half to get it moving....
But you're right about the other stuff.
they just lighten the car right? and make itaone piece as well.as far as the kerthunk, i can totally understand wanting to get rid of that. my car doesnt do that, either that or i dont realize it.
i was just thinking, i guess it certainly makes the engines job easier once engaged, but the rear end, well no difference there except more engine getting to it.
07-11-2007, 12:16 PM
#18
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 577
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
Have you guys heard anything about these seats? They seem to look like a good quality, and are only $250 a pair. :O
EDIT: Guess it'd be good if I gave you guys a link. http://www.andysautosport.com/ford/2..._seats/yonaka/
EDIT: Guess it'd be good if I gave you guys a link.
http://www.andysautosport.com/ford/2..._seats/yonaka/
07-11-2007, 10:44 PM
#19
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Now in Sunny SOCAL
Posts: 1,308
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
They will probably give you bunions on your bisquits! Ouch! Just Kidding, they sound too cheap to be of real quality, Probably ricer made ricer crap!
07-12-2007, 10:34 AM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 474
RE: Aftermarket seats vs aluminum driveshaft in speed gains?
driveshaft can gain you up to 2 tenths in the quarter whereas the 120 lbs of weight reduction in the seats will gain you about 1.2 tenths. I say do them both. lol. I have thought about seats in the near future for mine if I find some that I like
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