Handling problems after service - opinions please.
01-11-2008, 01:17 PM
#11
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 5,390
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
omeone check to see how the wheels are supposed to be rotated. Is it front to back or do they do front right to back left?
And I've never heard of "preventative alignment". You wait until there is uneven tire wear and THEN do an alignment! Unless you have an extra $100 to waste on unneeded service, which apparently is the cause of the problems.
Is it possible there are different alignment specs for 17" and 18" wheels?
Or maybe they knocked off a wheel weight...
I'd ask for a refund of the service cost and go to a better mechanic
And I've never heard of "preventative alignment". You wait until there is uneven tire wear and THEN do an alignment! Unless you have an extra $100 to waste on unneeded service, which apparently is the cause of the problems.
Is it possible there are different alignment specs for 17" and 18" wheels?
Or maybe they knocked off a wheel weight...
I'd ask for a refund of the service cost and go to a better mechanic
01-11-2008, 02:07 PM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 645
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
i never rotate tires from one side to another. strictly from front to rear. radial tires are broken in turning one direction and when you turn them around they will sometimes have a tendance to start reversing the cord layers and they will possibly start seperating internally. i had this happen once. lesson learned. never again. in the old days with bias nylon type tires it was proper to rotate left front to right rear, right rear to right front, right front to left rear.
01-11-2008, 02:19 PM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The High Country
Posts: 3,547
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
ORIGINAL: ZZLEGEND
i never rotate tires from one side to another. strictly from front to rear. radial tires are broken in turning one direction and when you turn them around they will sometimes have a tendance to start reversing the cord layers and they will possibly start seperating internally. i had this happen once. lesson learned. never again. in the old days with bias nylon type tires it was proper to rotate left front to right rear, right rear to right front, right front to left rear.
i never rotate tires from one side to another. strictly from front to rear. radial tires are broken in turning one direction and when you turn them around they will sometimes have a tendance to start reversing the cord layers and they will possibly start seperating internally. i had this happen once. lesson learned. never again. in the old days with bias nylon type tires it was proper to rotate left front to right rear, right rear to right front, right front to left rear.
RTFM. You must have had Firestone 721's.
01-11-2008, 02:57 PM
#16
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,138
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
ORIGINAL: Orion_240
And I've never heard of "preventative alignment". You wait until there is uneven tire wear and THEN do an alignment!
And I've never heard of "preventative alignment". You wait until there is uneven tire wear and THEN do an alignment!
01-11-2008, 10:19 PM
#17
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 67
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
ORIGINAL: richmod
It aint #2. As a doctor,I am very aware of hyper-analysis of a problem, so I make sureI aint doing it. Also, my wife noticed it without me even mentioning it to her (she drives the car one day a week). #1 could very well be the problem. Only way to know is to un-rotate, which I'll do myself this weekend.
ORIGINAL: smythge
I am guessing 2 things. 1. your tires may have a specific wear pattern and because you rotated themyou're now feeling that. 2. Because you just had the work done, you're looking for problems which causes you to notice everything, kind of a placebo affect.
I am guessing 2 things. 1. your tires may have a specific wear pattern and because you rotated themyou're now feeling that. 2. Because you just had the work done, you're looking for problems which causes you to notice everything, kind of a placebo affect.
01-12-2008, 09:34 AM
#18
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 356
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
ORIGINAL: richmod
I'll provide all details and let you guys decide what is pertinent.
2006 Mustang GT 22,000 miles - almost all highway, so suspension is in great shape - no worn parts. Stock 18" tires, stock suspension - not lowered.
Took the car in for oil/tire rotation/alignment. No problems at all before the visit - alignment was just preventative maintenance.
Afterwards, it didn't want to track straight - constantly fighting to keep it from drifting left and right. Took it back to recheck the alignment - they said everything was good. So, I checked the tire pressure (Accu-gauge dial type gauge) and it read 24 all around! So I filled to 32. thought that would do it.
It actually seemed worse - felt like driving in heavy wind with no wind. Took it back again - again everything in spec (this time I got the printout), BUT, they said tire pressure was at 45! Long story short, my "Accu"gauge was off by about 12 PSI.
However, I'm still having issues. Car tracks straight and steady now, but I'm getting significant tramlining (tendency for the car to pull in the direction of a longitudinal rut or crease in the road). Never did that before. Tire pressure is definitely correct now. No bumpsteer at all.
Here's the alignment results:
Camber: Right -.06 Left -1.0 Total -.03 Factory Range: -.08 to +.08
Caster: Right +6.5 Left+7.0 Total +.05 Factory Range: -.08 to +.08
Toe: Right +.05 Left+.08 Total+.12 Factory Range: -.10 to +.30
So, questions:
- Is it possible for the alignment to be incorrect even if theprint out says all is within spec?
- Could the tire rotation have brought on the tramlining (i.e the tread wear on the front wheels is different than the ones that were there before the rotation)?
- Is tramlining usually due to tires or suspension/alignment?
-Ifit is in alignment, could they have messed with something else that could cause tramlining?
- What do you suggest I do next?
Thanks in advance.
I'll provide all details and let you guys decide what is pertinent.
2006 Mustang GT 22,000 miles - almost all highway, so suspension is in great shape - no worn parts. Stock 18" tires, stock suspension - not lowered.
Took the car in for oil/tire rotation/alignment. No problems at all before the visit - alignment was just preventative maintenance.
Afterwards, it didn't want to track straight - constantly fighting to keep it from drifting left and right. Took it back to recheck the alignment - they said everything was good. So, I checked the tire pressure (Accu-gauge dial type gauge) and it read 24 all around! So I filled to 32. thought that would do it.
It actually seemed worse - felt like driving in heavy wind with no wind. Took it back again - again everything in spec (this time I got the printout), BUT, they said tire pressure was at 45! Long story short, my "Accu"gauge was off by about 12 PSI.
However, I'm still having issues. Car tracks straight and steady now, but I'm getting significant tramlining (tendency for the car to pull in the direction of a longitudinal rut or crease in the road). Never did that before. Tire pressure is definitely correct now. No bumpsteer at all.
Here's the alignment results:
Camber: Right -.06 Left -1.0 Total -.03 Factory Range: -.08 to +.08
Caster: Right +6.5 Left+7.0 Total +.05 Factory Range: -.08 to +.08
Toe: Right +.05 Left+.08 Total+.12 Factory Range: -.10 to +.30
So, questions:
- Is it possible for the alignment to be incorrect even if theprint out says all is within spec?
- Could the tire rotation have brought on the tramlining (i.e the tread wear on the front wheels is different than the ones that were there before the rotation)?
- Is tramlining usually due to tires or suspension/alignment?
-Ifit is in alignment, could they have messed with something else that could cause tramlining?
- What do you suggest I do next?
Thanks in advance.
Camber: -0.75, +-0.75, total 0 +-.75
Caster: 7.1, +-.75, total 0 +-.75
Toe total: .10, +- .20
Also on the troubleshooting chart -
Drift/Pull: Unequal tire pressures, excessive side to side difference in camber or caster, tire forces, unevenly loaded vehicle, steering components, or brake drag.
Wandering: Unevenly loaded vehicle, ball joints, front wheel bearings, loose damamaged or worn suspension components, loose fasteners, steering components, or wheel alignment.
I don't know if that helps, but like others said, I'd have it checked somewhere else.. and the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post was caster.. and how it says "excessive side to side difference in camber or caster" - it looks like there is a healthy difference in where the left and right sides ended up with the alignment.
01-12-2008, 01:18 PM
#19
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,138
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
Camber and caster are not adjustable on our cars stock, only toe. Since I had no handling issues right before taking it in, I don't think they could have altered camber or caster in any way to cause such a sudden change in handling. Interesting info though - thanks. What is Helms - some sort of manual? If so, is it any better than Haynes or Chilton? Where do you get it?
01-12-2008, 04:23 PM
#20
Cut & Paste Expert
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 13,322
RE: Handling problems after service - opinions please.
ORIGINAL: ZZLEGEND
i never rotate tires from one side to another. strictly from front to rear. radial tires are broken in turning one direction and when you turn them around they will sometimes have a tendance to start reversing the cord layers and they will possibly start seperating internally. i had this happen once. lesson learned. never again. in the old days with bias nylon type tires it was proper to rotate left front to right rear, right rear to right front, right front to left rear.
i never rotate tires from one side to another. strictly from front to rear. radial tires are broken in turning one direction and when you turn them around they will sometimes have a tendance to start reversing the cord layers and they will possibly start seperating internally. i had this happen once. lesson learned. never again. in the old days with bias nylon type tires it was proper to rotate left front to right rear, right rear to right front, right front to left rear.
Nowdays with any quality tire side to side rotation
is completely safe and nNO cord seperation will occure.
ORIGINAL: tr6nut
If the shop's equipment is screwed up or the tech doesn't know what he's doing, taking back to the same shop may not tell you anything. Perhaps you should take it to another shop and ask them to check the alignment. If they say its off, have them correct it. Then go back to the original shop and ask for your money back, since they didn't do the job correctly in the first place.
If the shop's equipment is screwed up or the tech doesn't know what he's doing, taking back to the same shop may not tell you anything. Perhaps you should take it to another shop and ask them to check the alignment. If they say its off, have them correct it. Then go back to the original shop and ask for your money back, since they didn't do the job correctly in the first place.