TorchedGT

Well first of all I just wanted to say hi - this is a whole new world for me, as I just sold my 97 M3 Coupe and picked up an '05 torch red GT 5spd premium w/ red accent trim and shaker 1000 (just about stole it at 16,900 with 26k mi.)

I just threw pypes axle-back and the black turn signals (the OEM orange works on SOME colors, but not red!) I've got 19x8.5(255s)fr 19x9.5r(275s) ASA AR9s black w/ polished lip sitting at the shop waiting for tires, and a bunch of cervini goodies getting prepped/painted.. most of that is out of my hands, but I'm trying to get these springs put on tomorrow after work and I had a few questions before I dive into things.

First of all, if I have a deadline for these mods (beach trip on Wednesday, first real experience with the car.. 7hr drive) can I throw on these springs without an adjustable panhard bar? I'll buy one, but it won't be here in time at this point. I was going to fit 285s but my tire sponsor ended up being Goodyear/Dunlop and they don't make the correct sizes (Kumho for example has a nice 285/255 staggered setup.. no one else goes past 275 for less than 300/tire it seems.)

Second, what are the generic camber bolts people are running? I've heard about them a few times - I'm running Eibach Sportlines (1.6fr, 2.0r) so camber will most likely suck big time. I'm also running Goodyear F1 GS-D3s which (from experience on the M3) DO NOT wear well with anything less than a perfect alignment.

So basically, can someone break down EXACTLY what I'll need to throw on these springs tomorrow? I remember hearing something about one-time use strut mounts or something? Does anyone have a part # or retail parts cost on these? Same with the camber bolts? Am I right to assume that there's no adjustable alignment specs in the rear?

Oh, and are there any DIYs floating around for spring install (preferably with torque specs?)

Thanks guys! Oh and I have to say I'm not regretting the purchase ONE BIT! It's only got tint and exhaust and people flipping love this thing, especially me Can't get over the shaker 1000 (which I didn't even know about till I picked up the car - everyone said it was a 500.) I HAVE to fix the throttle response issue (since I'm used to snappy rev-match downshifting in the M3) and brakes too, but that's down the road.

Thanks for your help!

Argonaut

Sportlines are a big drop, w/o an adjustable PHB your left rear tire will probably be close to or sticking out of the fender. As long as there is no rubbing you will be able to drive the car but clearly this is not ideal.

Here is an example of the camber bolts: http://www.stangsuspension.com/store...idCategory=135

Ford has redesigned the front strut mounts, the originals in 2005 would wear and have a bad clunking sound. They may have been replaced on your 05, don't know if you can tell. You can order the latest strut mounts thru Ford or you can buy aftermarket heavy duty adjustable camber plates - J&M, Maximum Motorsports and Steeda all make them.

You are correct, there is no suspension adjustments (camber, caster, toe) in the rear.

The TacoBill stickies have DIY spring replacement.

You are an interesting convert, going from an M3 to a Stang. Periodically on this forum we get into discussions along the lines 'what can I do to make my Mustang handle like an M3'. Responses usually fall into one of two categores: 1) they are a different class of car and there is no way a Stang will ever keep up with an M3s; 2) with 4-5K in upgrades you can keep up with M3s.

I have those 4K in upgrades and I've been on a track (Pocono) with couple M3s - I found it to be a drivers race. They were very fast, I was never able to pass them because they'd pull away on the straights. But thru the infield twisties I'd catch them. So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the subject.

TorchedGT

Thanks for the reply - yeah I guess I'll hold off on the springs till I get that panhard - I ended up getting 285s in the rear (mostly because I'm so damn excited to have a car that can actually fit big tires, after having major issues just fitting 255s in the M3.)

I'm shooting the adhesion promotor on the ABS Cervini pieces as we speak, and they should be on the car tonight [8D] so I guess I can be content with that - the car will look a lot lower with the chin splitter anyways.

As far as the handling discussion goes, I got this car for totally different reasons than the ones which the M3 was designed upon - 1) I'm sick of kids in stupid SRT4s and other toy cars KILLING me 24/7, and 2) the new stangs simply look insane with any amount of aftermarket body work / rims.

The M3 (and virtually all BMWs) were designed from the ground up, to be exceptionally communicative and responsive - just about every aspect of the car is perfect. It's not as simple as lowering the COG, changing the struts, etc. The entire suspension and frame geometry on the M3 (and thus most of the base 3 series chassis) is VERY complex and has undergone a stupid amount of research and countless laps on the Nurburgring (they're the only automaker to actually have a facility ON the grounds of the track, everyone else has since built facilities as close as they can.. aka near the outskirts of the town.)

It's really hard to explain, but the car just "felt" perfect; brake, clutch, throttle response (incredibly snappy) steering especially.. I've had that car completely sideways and never felt the slightest bit worried. Even when it's unexpected, like if you hit a sudden turn WITH water and you're steering through your window instead of your windshield... [:-] It just instills a large amount of confidence in you.

HOWEVER, I think the mustang is more "fun" in general, if that makes any sense. The sound of the engine makes just about everything else I just mentioned a moot point, and the looks I'm getting already (almost stock!) is already matching what my modded M3 got years ago (now it looks like a toy, and nothing but high schoolers are driving the E36 chassis now anyways.)

Even if you're keeping up with one, it's simply due to a lower COG than stock, a HUGE grip advantage (with big tires) and some other things like greater torque, etc. I promise you the M3 driver's listening to classical music and sipping tea while you're sweating/biting your lips/keeping the car on the edge.. you know?

But like I said, obviously I'd rather have a mustang, I'm just never going to drive one on a track.. but guess what? I had the M3 for 6 years and it never touched a track... that's basically why I took another look at what I wanted from a car, and the mustang fit the bill perfectly.

Cheers.

Argonaut

I need to get a test drive of an M3 ona track, everybody speaks so highly of them. Thats a great description of what they are like, now I need to drive one to really see the differences. I had an instructor in autocross once, a National Champion in Pro Solo, drives a Lotus Elise. He basically described the Mustang as a pig (although he was mainly referring to the older versions and stated the S197 is much improved). His opinion was if you can drive the F-Stock cars (Stang, Camaro, etc) you can drive anything. The implication was exactly what your saying - the Mustang can be very fast but its a different kind of fast, takes more careful driver input, better throttle control, precise braking,etc. For example, its VERY easy to oversteer these cars and takes good throttle control to keep the rear end under control (just monitor this forum for a few months and notice how many guys complain about the 'rear end stepping out'). I suspect its much easier to keep the M3s rear under control.

Have fun with the Mustang. Post some pics.

tn_gt

check falken's st-01 or toyo proxes st, they make them that cheap

Stkjock

search for posts by crazyAl.... he used to post great stuff here on suspension

timothyrw

TorchedGT, you should put your 2 cents in on this thread:

https://mustangforums.com/m_4831049/tm.htm

Be forewarned, there are some very passionate (and knowledgeable) people in the handling performance section!

Argonaut, you have no doubt read my take onthe M3in the above thread, and i will add that you should test drive any 3-series (and to a lesser extent the 5-series) on any curvy deserted road and you'll see they are just a different class of car when it comes to handling.

having said all that, i also agree with the OP, with the few handling mods i've done to my mustang, i LOVE how it handles now (and the price!) even on stock tiresand with my new boomtubes... oh the sound!

Argonaut

Yep, I remember that thread...that was a good one! I've read enough about the M3s to know you guys are telling the truth - they are VERY good. I'm sure I'll eventually get a chance to experience it first hand. But I also have enough track and autoX experience to know that the #1 Handling mod is the Driver - there is absolutely no question about it. A superior driver in a lesser handling carlike the Mustangwill beat an average driver in an M3 every time.