great mgw & shifter artical
10-08-2008, 08:06 PM
#1
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Long Island, moving to arizona soon
Posts: 7,386
great mgw & shifter artical
guy i got this from LEN on listangs.com i thought you might want to read it, i think someone from mgw wrote this...
When I was researching what to buy I came across this post in another forum. It's a pretty good explanation of how our shifters work from George who owns MGW and designed the shifter for the s197. It's a good overview (without bashing the competition) and might be helpful to anyone considering replacing theirs.
Regarding the stock Ford shifter:
"the reason Ford made the throw as long as it is stock is to hide some of the notchy feel and that neutral gate "BUMP" you are referring to. when you shorten the throw you will exaggerate the notchy bump in neutral. that is why the shortest throw is not always the smoothest or the fastest throw. which is the reason i made the shifter adjustable in throw. some do not mind that notchy feel but some hate it. you will NOT get a short throw AND a silky smooth shift. it is not possible unless you make a hydraulic shifter mechanism that basically removes the feel from the tranny altogether."
Regarding the "notchy" feel of shifters
1. as far as the function of a shifter you are 100 percent correct. all a shifter really is is a crude lever mechanism that allows the driver to select gears by pushing and pulling and moving left to right. no real rocket science here. that is why we find it odd that people always complain about how shifters make the tranny notchy. they do not. the tranny is already a VERY notchy setup. you just cannot feel it in the stock shifter for several reasons. one is the rubber parts of the shifter allow it to rise up and down and torque ALOT with the tranny thus taking away some of the notchy feel. the other is the fact that the stock shifter has the fulcrum or pivot point very close to the connection point of the shifter/traany linkage. this makes the shift throw up top much longer but also makes the mechanical leverage very good which also dissipates or spreads the notchy clunk over a longer travel so you do not "FEEL" it as much because it IS still there.
quick little project you guys should try when changing shifters out. once the stock shifter is removed grab the tranny linkage arm and just push and pull the arm front to back to pop it into 3rd and 4th. you will see that there is a VERY distinct notch or stop space in neutral . no matter how fast you pull or how smooth you pull you will NEVER get a 1 smooth pull from 3rd to 4th. so when you say a short shifter like the hurst is too notchy you are in fact only feeling the already exisiting notchiness in the tranny just amplifide because the hurst, to its credit, is one of the shortest throw shifters on the market. hurst offers very tall long handles for the driver to compensate for this and because alot of people prefer that tall look. if their shifter was the same throw as the triax and the pro5.0 which are about 3/4" longer then it would be too long of throw by the time you get the tall handle on there.
so in a nutshell the shifter issue is as follows...
stock - best feel for smoothness and hiding the "notchy" feel. bad feel for rubbery shifts, long throw and sloppiness in the shifter.
medium throw reduction (15-30 % reduction)- best for moderate reduction in throw and only increases notchy feel a minimal amount. good for the daily driver but not really the best for drag racing or power shifting.
ultra short throw ( 35-50 % reduction)- very tight shifts and fast gear changes but also much harder to shift due to decreased mech. leverage. also the notch in the tranny gates is amplifide greatly so the shifter feels notchy. of note is that most tranny forks are bent with VERY short throw shifters because the effort to pull is so great that the driver becomes used to pulling the hell out of the shifter.
beyond 50 percent is just not practical as the amount of force to put in gear will not help daily driving or speed shifting."
Regarding the MGW shifter.
"the MGW shifter will allow the customer to VARY the shift throw from about 15 percent shorter than stock to almost 50 percent reduction. therefore those that want a tighter feeling shifter but are not crazy about having the shortest throw on the market can set the shifter to the longer throw range .. those that do not mind or actually prefer the notchy feel and want the absolute shortest throw can set the shifter to the shorter range. simple as that
also you mentioned the slop in gear. this is due to the fact that the stock shifter no longer has a centering spring in it at all. the older mustangs had a spring mechanism in BOTH the tranny AND the shifter. the new s197 cars only have a spring load in the tranny . so you have nothing to take away the slop in the shifter when the car is in gear since there is some play in the tranny linkage arm. the only companies i know of right now that have centering springs are steeda and pro5.0. the hurst does not and neither does the b&m( to the best of my knowledge). the cons of having these centering springs is that they do not allow the center shaft to rotate freely with the gear linkage arm and are a bit harder to shift..."
When I was researching what to buy I came across this post in another forum. It's a pretty good explanation of how our shifters work from George who owns MGW and designed the shifter for the s197. It's a good overview (without bashing the competition) and might be helpful to anyone considering replacing theirs.
Regarding the stock Ford shifter:
"the reason Ford made the throw as long as it is stock is to hide some of the notchy feel and that neutral gate "BUMP" you are referring to. when you shorten the throw you will exaggerate the notchy bump in neutral. that is why the shortest throw is not always the smoothest or the fastest throw. which is the reason i made the shifter adjustable in throw. some do not mind that notchy feel but some hate it. you will NOT get a short throw AND a silky smooth shift. it is not possible unless you make a hydraulic shifter mechanism that basically removes the feel from the tranny altogether."
Regarding the "notchy" feel of shifters
1. as far as the function of a shifter you are 100 percent correct. all a shifter really is is a crude lever mechanism that allows the driver to select gears by pushing and pulling and moving left to right. no real rocket science here. that is why we find it odd that people always complain about how shifters make the tranny notchy. they do not. the tranny is already a VERY notchy setup. you just cannot feel it in the stock shifter for several reasons. one is the rubber parts of the shifter allow it to rise up and down and torque ALOT with the tranny thus taking away some of the notchy feel. the other is the fact that the stock shifter has the fulcrum or pivot point very close to the connection point of the shifter/traany linkage. this makes the shift throw up top much longer but also makes the mechanical leverage very good which also dissipates or spreads the notchy clunk over a longer travel so you do not "FEEL" it as much because it IS still there.
quick little project you guys should try when changing shifters out. once the stock shifter is removed grab the tranny linkage arm and just push and pull the arm front to back to pop it into 3rd and 4th. you will see that there is a VERY distinct notch or stop space in neutral . no matter how fast you pull or how smooth you pull you will NEVER get a 1 smooth pull from 3rd to 4th. so when you say a short shifter like the hurst is too notchy you are in fact only feeling the already exisiting notchiness in the tranny just amplifide because the hurst, to its credit, is one of the shortest throw shifters on the market. hurst offers very tall long handles for the driver to compensate for this and because alot of people prefer that tall look. if their shifter was the same throw as the triax and the pro5.0 which are about 3/4" longer then it would be too long of throw by the time you get the tall handle on there.
so in a nutshell the shifter issue is as follows...
stock - best feel for smoothness and hiding the "notchy" feel. bad feel for rubbery shifts, long throw and sloppiness in the shifter.
medium throw reduction (15-30 % reduction)- best for moderate reduction in throw and only increases notchy feel a minimal amount. good for the daily driver but not really the best for drag racing or power shifting.
ultra short throw ( 35-50 % reduction)- very tight shifts and fast gear changes but also much harder to shift due to decreased mech. leverage. also the notch in the tranny gates is amplifide greatly so the shifter feels notchy. of note is that most tranny forks are bent with VERY short throw shifters because the effort to pull is so great that the driver becomes used to pulling the hell out of the shifter.
beyond 50 percent is just not practical as the amount of force to put in gear will not help daily driving or speed shifting."
Regarding the MGW shifter.
"the MGW shifter will allow the customer to VARY the shift throw from about 15 percent shorter than stock to almost 50 percent reduction. therefore those that want a tighter feeling shifter but are not crazy about having the shortest throw on the market can set the shifter to the longer throw range .. those that do not mind or actually prefer the notchy feel and want the absolute shortest throw can set the shifter to the shorter range. simple as that
also you mentioned the slop in gear. this is due to the fact that the stock shifter no longer has a centering spring in it at all. the older mustangs had a spring mechanism in BOTH the tranny AND the shifter. the new s197 cars only have a spring load in the tranny . so you have nothing to take away the slop in the shifter when the car is in gear since there is some play in the tranny linkage arm. the only companies i know of right now that have centering springs are steeda and pro5.0. the hurst does not and neither does the b&m( to the best of my knowledge). the cons of having these centering springs is that they do not allow the center shaft to rotate freely with the gear linkage arm and are a bit harder to shift..."
10-08-2008, 09:03 PM
#4
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Anaheim, California
Posts: 4,205
