KB 2.6 OR 2.8
07-16-2009, 07:19 AM
#2
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,469
If you check out there website you can download the installation manual. Expect to lose about a day in install and you'll need to take it to a tuner. If you plan on running really high boost (20+) I would consider the 2.8. If not than stick with the 2.6. I have not owned or installed either one.
07-16-2009, 08:28 AM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 264
Where can you get a KB install manual on there site? I can't find it.
They give you a street tune which is pretty good. I do suggest dyno diagnostics after the install
I installed a 2.6 and it took me two full days. Not hard but time consuming.
If the 2.8 was out when I bought mine I would have bought it. The intake alone is worth it as it supposedly runs cooler, consumes less engine hp to run and is more appealing to the eye than the 2.6 intake tube
They give you a street tune which is pretty good. I do suggest dyno diagnostics after the install
I installed a 2.6 and it took me two full days. Not hard but time consuming.
If the 2.8 was out when I bought mine I would have bought it. The intake alone is worth it as it supposedly runs cooler, consumes less engine hp to run and is more appealing to the eye than the 2.6 intake tube
07-17-2009, 01:08 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 462
I installed mine about 5 weeks ago. 2.6l stage 1
The install is a little more involved than the other twin screws out there, mostly because there is more relocation of factory components required. Overall, it was not really difficult, just involving. There are about 550 steps total, but most steps are like: Push the clip down. and: Pull the plug from the IAT sensor.
The most difficult part is knowing what part to use. Nothing is labeled, so you have to learn the different types of bolts and such. One guy said that it was like assembling the biggest model car ever, but no parts have the little number tabs on them. That is an accurate way of putting it. A few steps leave you scratching your head, but the main reason is you get so used to following the next step, you forget to think for yourself. Routing the hoses for the intercooler were like that for me.. the descriptions were fairly weak and the pictures were from odd angles and I scratched my head for a while before just looking at it and routing the hoses how they need to be.
The only special tools I needed were a metric hex socket set (preferably ball type for tougher angles of which there are a few), a torque wrench (need one that does inch-pounds, and one for foot-pounds), and some silicone spray for putting hoses on ****** fittings. I already had a basic set of shallow and deep well sockets in metric, and an open and box end wrench set, as well as a few screwdrivers and such. I did have to pick up some penetrant spray and anti-seize for the spark plugs, and I didn't have things like drip pans for coolant that pours out when you disconnect the coolant lines in the engine valley. A floor jack and stands are necessary at 2 points, and in my case I jacked it up before starting, although it was difficult to reach some stuff because of that.. if your car is lowered you want to start with it on 2x6's or whatever it takes to get a jack under it, but keep it on the ground until it calls for jacking, it will be easier. I also needed a deep well 9/16th socket for the spark plugs, mine was missing.
Other than those few tools and some coolant, everything else was included. I did need to use a pin crimping tool at one point but I already owned one (specialty tool, you can solder though if you don't have one), and I have an air saw that I used for cutting the metal for the intake, which was very minor and could probably even be done with aviation snips. A die grinder with a cutting wheel is what they recommend, and one other time you really need one to cut the coolant lines off a bracket.
You will need an extra person for about 3 parts of the install, mostly for helping you to place the manifold and supercharger, but otherwise you could do it alone.
If you decide to go this route, here is my advice: Spend the time to read through all the steps first. There will be some supplements that come in to play in the middle that you need to pay attention to, and also it really helps to know why you are doing what it asks. In the end it all comes clear why you did this or moved that, and just following the instructions will not always work out perfectly.. if you have to move a harness (say the TPS or something) you really need to know where it is supposed to go so you don't end up 1" short. Also, pull the battery completely.. there is one bolt on the back of the engine that they call the "Bolt from Hell", or BFH, and quite frankly with the battery removed it was a piece of cake.
If you have trouble changing your oil, don't take on this project, but if you have some halfway decent mechanical abilities, you will do fine. I particularly enjoyed doing it, and get a lot of play from the fact that I installed it myself, and I also have great satisfaction from having done it. I learned more about this engine and how it all works than I think I ever wanted to know.
Overall it took me about 35 hours, mostly working solo, and I did the plugs (first change, so I took my time so I didn't break one off), and I pulled the valve covers and powder coated them at the same time, which added about 5 or 6 hours total to the install time. An experienced mechanic could probably do it in 20-25 hours, and someone that has done one before could probably shave another 5 hours off because they won't be standing there trying to figure out why you are doing the next step.
I don't think the install book is available in PDF. I have it here but it is very big and I would need to be motivated to scan it and post it.. Like I said, about 550 steps, and most pages have like 3 or 4 steps on them.
Overall satisfaction with the supercharger is about as high as can be. These engines have some limitations that are kind of a bummer, like only being able to handle about 10 psi boost without building them, and the incredibly poor traction of the car in general, but those are restrictions you deal with in any FI setup. The quality of the KB product is incredible, and being that they direct sell, the price is very reasonable for what you get.
Getting in touch with the people at KB is frustrating because they have one phone line coming in and it is busy a lot. Once you get through, however, they are super nice, very smart, and always ready to help. The website has a TON of good information that they have collected over the years, much of which is quite contradictory to what many people believe. They approach everything from the engineerin standpoint, and everything they claim, they have tested over and over on their dyno to prove their results.
Don't expect 501 rwhp from the stage 1 kit, even though they claim it. That is a dyno pull under the most perfect circumstances with an electric water pump on their "shootout" tune, which is fairly aggressive (about 11.8 af and 25 degrees advance). Most people at sea level end up pulling about 440-460 rwhp, and I have seen numbers as low as 430. Up at the elevation I am at, on a hot day I would be surprised to get over 400 rwhp, but when the weather is 60 and dry, I could easily see my car doing 460 rwhp on a dyno, and that is on 91 octane gas.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.. I have become quite intimate with the inner workings of this supercharger kit and will do my best to answer any questions you might have.
The install is a little more involved than the other twin screws out there, mostly because there is more relocation of factory components required. Overall, it was not really difficult, just involving. There are about 550 steps total, but most steps are like: Push the clip down. and: Pull the plug from the IAT sensor.
The most difficult part is knowing what part to use. Nothing is labeled, so you have to learn the different types of bolts and such. One guy said that it was like assembling the biggest model car ever, but no parts have the little number tabs on them. That is an accurate way of putting it. A few steps leave you scratching your head, but the main reason is you get so used to following the next step, you forget to think for yourself. Routing the hoses for the intercooler were like that for me.. the descriptions were fairly weak and the pictures were from odd angles and I scratched my head for a while before just looking at it and routing the hoses how they need to be.
The only special tools I needed were a metric hex socket set (preferably ball type for tougher angles of which there are a few), a torque wrench (need one that does inch-pounds, and one for foot-pounds), and some silicone spray for putting hoses on ****** fittings. I already had a basic set of shallow and deep well sockets in metric, and an open and box end wrench set, as well as a few screwdrivers and such. I did have to pick up some penetrant spray and anti-seize for the spark plugs, and I didn't have things like drip pans for coolant that pours out when you disconnect the coolant lines in the engine valley. A floor jack and stands are necessary at 2 points, and in my case I jacked it up before starting, although it was difficult to reach some stuff because of that.. if your car is lowered you want to start with it on 2x6's or whatever it takes to get a jack under it, but keep it on the ground until it calls for jacking, it will be easier. I also needed a deep well 9/16th socket for the spark plugs, mine was missing.
Other than those few tools and some coolant, everything else was included. I did need to use a pin crimping tool at one point but I already owned one (specialty tool, you can solder though if you don't have one), and I have an air saw that I used for cutting the metal for the intake, which was very minor and could probably even be done with aviation snips. A die grinder with a cutting wheel is what they recommend, and one other time you really need one to cut the coolant lines off a bracket.
You will need an extra person for about 3 parts of the install, mostly for helping you to place the manifold and supercharger, but otherwise you could do it alone.
If you decide to go this route, here is my advice: Spend the time to read through all the steps first. There will be some supplements that come in to play in the middle that you need to pay attention to, and also it really helps to know why you are doing what it asks. In the end it all comes clear why you did this or moved that, and just following the instructions will not always work out perfectly.. if you have to move a harness (say the TPS or something) you really need to know where it is supposed to go so you don't end up 1" short. Also, pull the battery completely.. there is one bolt on the back of the engine that they call the "Bolt from Hell", or BFH, and quite frankly with the battery removed it was a piece of cake.
If you have trouble changing your oil, don't take on this project, but if you have some halfway decent mechanical abilities, you will do fine. I particularly enjoyed doing it, and get a lot of play from the fact that I installed it myself, and I also have great satisfaction from having done it. I learned more about this engine and how it all works than I think I ever wanted to know.
Overall it took me about 35 hours, mostly working solo, and I did the plugs (first change, so I took my time so I didn't break one off), and I pulled the valve covers and powder coated them at the same time, which added about 5 or 6 hours total to the install time. An experienced mechanic could probably do it in 20-25 hours, and someone that has done one before could probably shave another 5 hours off because they won't be standing there trying to figure out why you are doing the next step.
I don't think the install book is available in PDF. I have it here but it is very big and I would need to be motivated to scan it and post it.. Like I said, about 550 steps, and most pages have like 3 or 4 steps on them.
Overall satisfaction with the supercharger is about as high as can be. These engines have some limitations that are kind of a bummer, like only being able to handle about 10 psi boost without building them, and the incredibly poor traction of the car in general, but those are restrictions you deal with in any FI setup. The quality of the KB product is incredible, and being that they direct sell, the price is very reasonable for what you get.
Getting in touch with the people at KB is frustrating because they have one phone line coming in and it is busy a lot. Once you get through, however, they are super nice, very smart, and always ready to help. The website has a TON of good information that they have collected over the years, much of which is quite contradictory to what many people believe. They approach everything from the engineerin standpoint, and everything they claim, they have tested over and over on their dyno to prove their results.
Don't expect 501 rwhp from the stage 1 kit, even though they claim it. That is a dyno pull under the most perfect circumstances with an electric water pump on their "shootout" tune, which is fairly aggressive (about 11.8 af and 25 degrees advance). Most people at sea level end up pulling about 440-460 rwhp, and I have seen numbers as low as 430. Up at the elevation I am at, on a hot day I would be surprised to get over 400 rwhp, but when the weather is 60 and dry, I could easily see my car doing 460 rwhp on a dyno, and that is on 91 octane gas.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.. I have become quite intimate with the inner workings of this supercharger kit and will do my best to answer any questions you might have.
07-17-2009, 01:20 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 462
No, but it is recommended. If you run the biggest pulley on the 2.8 you have to modify the hood to clear. It is incredibly inefficient at low boost compared to the 2.6 though, so unless you are planning over 16-18 psi boost, it is not worth it. I also don't think they have a "kit" for the 4.6, just the tuner package.
The stage 1 and 2 kits are plug and play.. they heavily discourage dyno tunes as they claim (rightly so) that MOST dyno tuners don't know what they are doing and just end up jacking up the AF to squeeze another 20 hp and then you go out and drive on a hot humid day and detonate and bend a rod. Their tune is safe, but they have not lost an engine since the kit first came out in 2005 as long as you stick to the KB tune. Their shootout tune does require adding octane, at least to get to 94 at the minimum, as it runs both a leaner mixture and 25 degrees of advance. Some tuners will add AF but then pull timing to keep from detonating, which kills any gains and makes it unsafe. The way they put it is they have spent over 250,000 dollars on their dyno and dyno'd thousands of these cars with all sorts of different configurations, and if there was a better tune, they would know. They have a really good point about people who claim to get more power by dyno tuning.. without quoting them directly, it goes something like: There are only 2 things in the tune that add power, timing and af ratio. Anyone who claims there is a magic, hidden 3rd factor that they can tweak to give more power is lying and just trying to get you to spend money with them.
If you are going to run anything but the KB setup on stage 1 or 2, you will need a tune (you can go to 10 psi safely without a tune but you need to step up the octane). If you plan to build a motor, plan on getting a dyno tune from a respectable shop, but if you just want to bolt on and go, you will not need to change anything. I have spent quite a lot of time working with their tuner now (Ken Christley), and he does know what he is talking about.
The stage 1 and 2 kits are plug and play.. they heavily discourage dyno tunes as they claim (rightly so) that MOST dyno tuners don't know what they are doing and just end up jacking up the AF to squeeze another 20 hp and then you go out and drive on a hot humid day and detonate and bend a rod. Their tune is safe, but they have not lost an engine since the kit first came out in 2005 as long as you stick to the KB tune. Their shootout tune does require adding octane, at least to get to 94 at the minimum, as it runs both a leaner mixture and 25 degrees of advance. Some tuners will add AF but then pull timing to keep from detonating, which kills any gains and makes it unsafe. The way they put it is they have spent over 250,000 dollars on their dyno and dyno'd thousands of these cars with all sorts of different configurations, and if there was a better tune, they would know. They have a really good point about people who claim to get more power by dyno tuning.. without quoting them directly, it goes something like: There are only 2 things in the tune that add power, timing and af ratio. Anyone who claims there is a magic, hidden 3rd factor that they can tweak to give more power is lying and just trying to get you to spend money with them.
If you are going to run anything but the KB setup on stage 1 or 2, you will need a tune (you can go to 10 psi safely without a tune but you need to step up the octane). If you plan to build a motor, plan on getting a dyno tune from a respectable shop, but if you just want to bolt on and go, you will not need to change anything. I have spent quite a lot of time working with their tuner now (Ken Christley), and he does know what he is talking about.
07-17-2009, 01:22 PM
#8
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,190
it took me two days to install the KB on my buddy's 04 GT. we were working in a driveway and taking our time and it was the first time I worked on a Mustang ever so I was erring on the side of caution. they have great instructions, so good that they pay you $50 if you find an error. everything went great with his car and it was running 425whp on 9psi on his 2V motor.
I'm planning on getting the KB stage 2 kit with the 2.6 blower, I've read over a ton if stuff on their site and really the difference between the two blowers comes down to the power level you want to run. basically the stage 1 and 2 kits are limited to the flow rating of the intake manifold before the blower. the stage 1 kit with the stock throttle body and 2.6 blower limits you to 620whp. the stage 2 with their throttle body opens up the 2.6 blower to 675whp at the same amount of boost, pretty cool. the power is limited by the 1000cfm intake manifold more than the blower itself. they say it's just like the effect of the restricter plate on a Nascar and how those motors make 800-900hp normally but are closer to 600hp with the plate.
the Mammoth kit jumps up to a 1700cfm intake manifold and a 2000cfm intake filter and pipe to make sure it's breathing as easily as possible. this opens up the blower to be able to hit the 775whp mark on a 100% stock motor and exhaust. they say that the rear mufflers are good for about another 25whp but that no other part of the exhaust gains power with their kit. moral of the story if you want a blower save the money that would be spent on exhaust and put it towards their kit.
you'd think that since the mammoth is so much better why sell all the kits. the reason I think they don't just have one kit is that the mammoth kit won't fit under a stock hood unless you're running 15psi or more. 15 psi on that kit is 626whp, 100whp more than they recommend on a stock motor. so if they only offered the big kit only guys with built motors would even be able to consider the kit. or you would have to add a hood to the cost of the kit itself to fit the bigger pulley and keep the boost down on the stock motor.
like I said I'm gonna get the stage 2 kit. I'll be at 525whp on 9psi with the room to go up to 675whp if I build the motor and a few other things. if the motor was already built or if I had a taller hood already I'd go with the mammoth kit just to have more room to grow down the road.
power level of each kit on a stock motor...
I'm planning on getting the KB stage 2 kit with the 2.6 blower, I've read over a ton if stuff on their site and really the difference between the two blowers comes down to the power level you want to run. basically the stage 1 and 2 kits are limited to the flow rating of the intake manifold before the blower. the stage 1 kit with the stock throttle body and 2.6 blower limits you to 620whp. the stage 2 with their throttle body opens up the 2.6 blower to 675whp at the same amount of boost, pretty cool. the power is limited by the 1000cfm intake manifold more than the blower itself. they say it's just like the effect of the restricter plate on a Nascar and how those motors make 800-900hp normally but are closer to 600hp with the plate.
the Mammoth kit jumps up to a 1700cfm intake manifold and a 2000cfm intake filter and pipe to make sure it's breathing as easily as possible. this opens up the blower to be able to hit the 775whp mark on a 100% stock motor and exhaust. they say that the rear mufflers are good for about another 25whp but that no other part of the exhaust gains power with their kit. moral of the story if you want a blower save the money that would be spent on exhaust and put it towards their kit.
you'd think that since the mammoth is so much better why sell all the kits. the reason I think they don't just have one kit is that the mammoth kit won't fit under a stock hood unless you're running 15psi or more. 15 psi on that kit is 626whp, 100whp more than they recommend on a stock motor. so if they only offered the big kit only guys with built motors would even be able to consider the kit. or you would have to add a hood to the cost of the kit itself to fit the bigger pulley and keep the boost down on the stock motor.
like I said I'm gonna get the stage 2 kit. I'll be at 525whp on 9psi with the room to go up to 675whp if I build the motor and a few other things. if the motor was already built or if I had a taller hood already I'd go with the mammoth kit just to have more room to grow down the road.
power level of each kit on a stock motor...
07-18-2009, 12:00 AM
#9
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 4,897
With my suspension/tires I can't see 500whp being an issue. dkersten, do you have an adjustable UCA which allows for a neg3 driveline angle along with LCA relocation brackets? My car hooks so f-in hard just from a normal stop it snaps the neck. I NEED about 5-600whp now to keep up with my suspension. Brakes are now my issue... feels like trying to stop a mac-truck with the suspension mods.
This is a great informative post. I plan to install a centri (probably procharge) this fall when the heat here in centex subsides...
This is a great informative post. I plan to install a centri (probably procharge) this fall when the heat here in centex subsides...
07-19-2009, 12:31 AM
#10
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 462
With my suspension/tires I can't see 500whp being an issue. dkersten, do you have an adjustable UCA which allows for a neg3 driveline angle along with LCA relocation brackets? My car hooks so f-in hard just from a normal stop it snaps the neck. I NEED about 5-600whp now to keep up with my suspension. Brakes are now my issue... feels like trying to stop a mac-truck with the suspension mods.
This is a great informative post. I plan to install a centri (probably procharge) this fall when the heat here in centex subsides...
This is a great informative post. I plan to install a centri (probably procharge) this fall when the heat here in centex subsides...
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