Hard shift + Hesitation
03-24-2010, 01:11 PM
#21
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 120
The traction control doesn't help with my car. Not sure about anybody else.Tried that a few months ago. But like I said before you have to learn how to drive with it, know your car and its tendencies. Alkemist, if you drive enough with the hesitation you will know when it will happen. Because obviously the hesitation is not going anywhere, lol
03-24-2010, 02:15 PM
#22
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
Sorry, but it seems that you're well on the way to being brainwashed into believing that the responsibility for your safety is something that can be done for you. Everyday driving safety rests with you, not some electronic bits and a few thousand lines of software code.
TCS can help you under some conditions, but the flip side is that it won't get you around corners any better or stop you any quicker once you've got it going. And relying on it in your daily driving will ultimately let you get a bit sloppy as it covers for small driving errors on your part and gets in the way of you ever developing much "feel" for how much (or how little) traction exists.
I'm not picking on you personally, so don't take this as flame. It's just that I honestly feel that every driver needs to know how to drive their car(s) without intervention based on what somebody else thinks the car should be permitted or directed to do. TCS ALWAYS gets switched off in my Mustang, and as I drive my wife's brand-new car from time to time, its stability control will get shut off, too.
Norm
TCS can help you under some conditions, but the flip side is that it won't get you around corners any better or stop you any quicker once you've got it going. And relying on it in your daily driving will ultimately let you get a bit sloppy as it covers for small driving errors on your part and gets in the way of you ever developing much "feel" for how much (or how little) traction exists.
I'm not picking on you personally, so don't take this as flame. It's just that I honestly feel that every driver needs to know how to drive their car(s) without intervention based on what somebody else thinks the car should be permitted or directed to do. TCS ALWAYS gets switched off in my Mustang, and as I drive my wife's brand-new car from time to time, its stability control will get shut off, too.
Norm
Well, it seems that you are well on your way to totally misunderstanding what a person is trying to say.
I know damn well what responsibility for safety is and I practice it.
I am over 30 years old and I am a safe and courteous driver. You may have not been trying to flame but you sure as heck sounded like you were preaching. Not only that, but to someone who you have no clue as to how they drive.
Not really mad but that is a bit presumptuous.
The few times I have let loose with my car (and by that I mean speed )... have been alone on an empty road.
And I am perfectly aware of how this car handles and operates and how to operate the car in a safe and responsible manner. I do NOT rely on the TCS for my driving, and your assumption is a bit of an insult.
I never even spoke of relying on the TCS or how good or bad I thought it was. You would have to be a fool to rely on TCS for your everyday driving. But still, it does not hurt you at all to keep it on, and is probably smart to leave it on for everyday driving for many people, given how easy these cars can get away from people. I have let a few people drive my car, and without TCS they have had difficulty in controlling the car at the low speeds. Driving with it on or off I believe... for the owner... is in the end up to how he can control the car better, with it on.. or with it off.
What I was saying is that I have felt the traction control cause a hesitation... I know that it is because of this safety feature, even if some cars experience it while TCS is on and some do not. I do not view the hesitation as something bad.
If you have the hesitation due to TCS and you view it the way I do... it does not bother you. My entire post about it was simply saying that if the hesitation is due to the TCS... to view it as something that comes along with the TCS safety feature and not something that was wrong with the car.
Simple as that.
I know that TCS was built for a reason and that the hesitation can be a part of it, but that and relying on it to take my responsibility of driving safe are two completely different things.
I guess you just failed to understand that.
Last edited by Blacksmoke; 03-24-2010 at 02:31 PM.
03-24-2010, 03:35 PM
#23
I tried driving on the way home with TCS off. They were small local roads, so I couldn't really do any testing. Though I was able to briefly light up my Nittos while doing a turn from a stop lol. So far I kinda like it...
03-24-2010, 05:00 PM
#24
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 977
It's definitely not TCS....I'm pretty OCD about having that turned off...but it feels very similar
03-24-2010, 05:32 PM
#25
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
iluv
Maybe I should have edited down the quote still further, something like
which still reads like some degree of reliance is being placed on it. And like I said, if it keeps you from developing a feel for when the available traction is poor, that's not entirely a good thing. If you have trouble accelerating away from a dead stop, that's your clue that conditions are bad, and that the rest of your driving should take that into consideration. It's certainly better to get a little straight line wheelspin first thing than to find out later that you can't stop in time or make the turn.
You, personally, may well have an excellent grasp of how your car will behave under a wide variety of circumstances - I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. But I will suggest that people who you notice have difficulty controlling any of your cars perhaps should not be permitted to drive them. That's something that you have control over and is a wish that you can expect those other drivers to respect. One of my other cars is more potent than I'm willing to turn loose in the hands of most others, too.
I happen to dislike (and generally distrust) anything that inserts itself between the control actions that I physically make and modifies what the car ends up doing. I'll notice most any vehicle behavior that's "out of step" with what I'm trying to make it do, and I know that any TCS intervention while accelerating hard from a roll would annoy me intensely (even AT shift programming does so on the rare occasions that I drive an AT car). So I guess fortunately for me, TCS doesn't appear to interfere with manual tranny cars, or maybe the FRPP tune had something to do with its sensitivity.
If TCS is in fact what's getting in the way on kickdown (perhaps the PCM senses that the engine rpms are rising at an unexpectedly high rate?), then the system hasn't been thought out completely.
I've probably been driving a few years more than you have (my son turns 39 next month), and the value of that length of experience is something I'll take over having any of the electronic active systems. Every single time. Old habits that have consistently provided the desired results die hard, and with respect to TCS, shame on me if I'm too stupid to back out of the gas should I feel a rear tire start to spin.
I guess what I don't understand is why anybody on an automotive enthusiast forum would be unwilling to trust in themselves but be perfectly content to leave it up to the electronics. If it matters any, it's not just once in a while here that I see this.
Norm
Maybe I should have edited down the quote still further, something like
. . . that the TCS is keeping everything safe for the everyday driving . . .
You, personally, may well have an excellent grasp of how your car will behave under a wide variety of circumstances - I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. But I will suggest that people who you notice have difficulty controlling any of your cars perhaps should not be permitted to drive them. That's something that you have control over and is a wish that you can expect those other drivers to respect. One of my other cars is more potent than I'm willing to turn loose in the hands of most others, too.
I happen to dislike (and generally distrust) anything that inserts itself between the control actions that I physically make and modifies what the car ends up doing. I'll notice most any vehicle behavior that's "out of step" with what I'm trying to make it do, and I know that any TCS intervention while accelerating hard from a roll would annoy me intensely (even AT shift programming does so on the rare occasions that I drive an AT car). So I guess fortunately for me, TCS doesn't appear to interfere with manual tranny cars, or maybe the FRPP tune had something to do with its sensitivity.
If TCS is in fact what's getting in the way on kickdown (perhaps the PCM senses that the engine rpms are rising at an unexpectedly high rate?), then the system hasn't been thought out completely.
I've probably been driving a few years more than you have (my son turns 39 next month), and the value of that length of experience is something I'll take over having any of the electronic active systems. Every single time. Old habits that have consistently provided the desired results die hard, and with respect to TCS, shame on me if I'm too stupid to back out of the gas should I feel a rear tire start to spin.
I guess what I don't understand is why anybody on an automotive enthusiast forum would be unwilling to trust in themselves but be perfectly content to leave it up to the electronics. If it matters any, it's not just once in a while here that I see this.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 03-24-2010 at 07:30 PM.
03-24-2010, 05:48 PM
#26
2010 Section Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lithia, FL
Posts: 3,328
Touchy touchy... I read what both said and didn't feel that Norm was insulting anyone... just stating the obvious when it comes to TCS. In fact he even stated he was not picking on you personally and yet that is exactly how you responded.
03-24-2010, 07:12 PM
#27
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 361
Mine used to do that when I had a Brenspeed tune too, never did figure out what it was. Only happened on the 2-3 shift as I remember. Since then I switched to a Dynotune and it does not happen any longer. In fact I made a post about several years back on another forum but I'm not sure it's OK to link it here.
The other thing my car has always done (no matter whose tune Brent, Doug or Dyno) is a problem with the converter (I think) on the 1/2 shift. If I start off easy in first and the car shifts into second, and say the guy next to me jumps on it or if I realize that car's coming faster then I thought and I put the pedal down hard the engine goes like crazy but the car just lopes along until I hit 40mph and the converter locks and she takes off. It's like I catch it mid-shift while the converter is unlocked and it just can't recover. Any of you guys ever experience that?
I'd think I messed it up or something but it's been happening since I first got the car and its never gotten worse, in fact I made a post about that too on this forum. https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...ngine-bog.html
Tim
The other thing my car has always done (no matter whose tune Brent, Doug or Dyno) is a problem with the converter (I think) on the 1/2 shift. If I start off easy in first and the car shifts into second, and say the guy next to me jumps on it or if I realize that car's coming faster then I thought and I put the pedal down hard the engine goes like crazy but the car just lopes along until I hit 40mph and the converter locks and she takes off. It's like I catch it mid-shift while the converter is unlocked and it just can't recover. Any of you guys ever experience that?
I'd think I messed it up or something but it's been happening since I first got the car and its never gotten worse, in fact I made a post about that too on this forum. https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...ngine-bog.html
Tim
03-24-2010, 07:43 PM
#28
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
I was saying this before Norm (kinda)...
The TCS is bad news in most cases, especially for a n00b driver being his/her first car.
Not directed at you ILUV, don't jump at my throat yet, lol.
Anyway, the thing you hear a lot with these cars when their owners loose control is "I had the TCS on, but it didn't help". Big LOL, it's like: Put that device on and floor it, it'll turn on its own... Yeah right, the laws of physics are somehow eradicated!
The TCS is bad news in most cases, especially for a n00b driver being his/her first car.
Not directed at you ILUV, don't jump at my throat yet, lol.
Anyway, the thing you hear a lot with these cars when their owners loose control is "I had the TCS on, but it didn't help". Big LOL, it's like: Put that device on and floor it, it'll turn on its own... Yeah right, the laws of physics are somehow eradicated!
03-24-2010, 08:48 PM
#29
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ia
Posts: 55
figured there was no real way to get rid of it. I learned to drive with it tho. Sometimes just driving a little slower helps. I notice that if you are driving fast, come to a complete stop, then try to jump lanes or make a turn, the hesitation happens. Also coming off the highway it happens. Guess its one of the joys of being a mustang owner.
03-25-2010, 08:05 AM
#30
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 120
