Hard shift + Hesitation
03-25-2010, 08:06 AM
#31
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
iluv
Maybe I should have edited down the quote still further, something like
which still reads like some degree of reliance is being placed on it. And like I said, if it keeps you from developing a feel for when the available traction is poor, that's not entirely a good thing. If you have trouble accelerating away from a dead stop, that's your clue that conditions are bad, and that the rest of your driving should take that into consideration. It's certainly better to get a little straight line wheelspin first thing than to find out later that you can't stop in time or make the turn.
You, personally, may well have an excellent grasp of how your car will behave under a wide variety of circumstances - I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. But I will suggest that people who you notice have difficulty controlling any of your cars perhaps should not be permitted to drive them. That's something that you have control over and is a wish that you can expect those other drivers to respect. One of my other cars is more potent than I'm willing to turn loose in the hands of most others, too.
I happen to dislike (and generally distrust) anything that inserts itself between the control actions that I physically make and modifies what the car ends up doing. I'll notice most any vehicle behavior that's "out of step" with what I'm trying to make it do, and I know that any TCS intervention while accelerating hard from a roll would annoy me intensely (even AT shift programming does so on the rare occasions that I drive an AT car). So I guess fortunately for me, TCS doesn't appear to interfere with manual tranny cars, or maybe the FRPP tune had something to do with its sensitivity.
If TCS is in fact what's getting in the way on kickdown (perhaps the PCM senses that the engine rpms are rising at an unexpectedly high rate?), then the system hasn't been thought out completely.
I've probably been driving a few years more than you have (my son turns 39 next month), and the value of that length of experience is something I'll take over having any of the electronic active systems. Every single time. Old habits that have consistently provided the desired results die hard, and with respect to TCS, shame on me if I'm too stupid to back out of the gas should I feel a rear tire start to spin.
I guess what I don't understand is why anybody on an automotive enthusiast forum would be unwilling to trust in themselves but be perfectly content to leave it up to the electronics. If it matters any, it's not just once in a while here that I see this.
Norm
Maybe I should have edited down the quote still further, something like
which still reads like some degree of reliance is being placed on it. And like I said, if it keeps you from developing a feel for when the available traction is poor, that's not entirely a good thing. If you have trouble accelerating away from a dead stop, that's your clue that conditions are bad, and that the rest of your driving should take that into consideration. It's certainly better to get a little straight line wheelspin first thing than to find out later that you can't stop in time or make the turn.
You, personally, may well have an excellent grasp of how your car will behave under a wide variety of circumstances - I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. But I will suggest that people who you notice have difficulty controlling any of your cars perhaps should not be permitted to drive them. That's something that you have control over and is a wish that you can expect those other drivers to respect. One of my other cars is more potent than I'm willing to turn loose in the hands of most others, too.
I happen to dislike (and generally distrust) anything that inserts itself between the control actions that I physically make and modifies what the car ends up doing. I'll notice most any vehicle behavior that's "out of step" with what I'm trying to make it do, and I know that any TCS intervention while accelerating hard from a roll would annoy me intensely (even AT shift programming does so on the rare occasions that I drive an AT car). So I guess fortunately for me, TCS doesn't appear to interfere with manual tranny cars, or maybe the FRPP tune had something to do with its sensitivity.
If TCS is in fact what's getting in the way on kickdown (perhaps the PCM senses that the engine rpms are rising at an unexpectedly high rate?), then the system hasn't been thought out completely.
I've probably been driving a few years more than you have (my son turns 39 next month), and the value of that length of experience is something I'll take over having any of the electronic active systems. Every single time. Old habits that have consistently provided the desired results die hard, and with respect to TCS, shame on me if I'm too stupid to back out of the gas should I feel a rear tire start to spin.
I guess what I don't understand is why anybody on an automotive enthusiast forum would be unwilling to trust in themselves but be perfectly content to leave it up to the electronics. If it matters any, it's not just once in a while here that I see this.
Norm
I understand completely what you are saying.
I just did not want you to think they I relied on the TCS for my safety. Like I said my post was just to say that if it is TCS that is causing the hesitation, regardless of whether they should have built it that way, I try to view it in a way that just says "Its part of they TCS safety system", that way there is no big frustration if the hesitation occurs and it is engaged.
03-25-2010, 09:13 AM
#32
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
I guess we're as close to agreement as we're ever going to get on this point, as I don't think I'll ever be able to grant TCS "safety system" status and all that is implied by the use of the word "safety". But if it helps you cope . . . it'll have to do. Long way of saying it's probably best if we just agree to disagree and let it go.
Norm
Norm
03-25-2010, 09:49 AM
#33
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
Hahaha. Np with me.
Again.... with the words "safety system", I mean something the implemented AS a safety system by Ford. To each his own on how they view the actual function of the system or if they even view it as safe.
I myself, like you believe it is the driver that implements the safety as far as the operation of the vehicle. I think that perhaps the way I worded it, like you said perhaps the way you did, lead to some different interpretations.
I completely trust myself with the TCS off. But I am aware that people who are so called "guest drivers" in my vehicle, (the few that I do let drive every so often), find the TCS makes it easier to manage and helps it feel more like their own car.That being said, some owners themselves just find that the car "feels" better to them with the TCS on rather than off.
Again... the reason for my post had nothing to do with the
quality of the TCS or relying on it. The ONLY thing it had to do with was that if TCS was causing a hesitation, that viewing it as part of the way TCS was built instead of viewing the hesitation as something wrong with your car, will lead to much less frustration about the hesitation itself.
I.E. Turn the TCS off if you do not like TCS, or leave it on but do not worry about the hesitation.
Again.... with the words "safety system", I mean something the implemented AS a safety system by Ford. To each his own on how they view the actual function of the system or if they even view it as safe.
I myself, like you believe it is the driver that implements the safety as far as the operation of the vehicle. I think that perhaps the way I worded it, like you said perhaps the way you did, lead to some different interpretations.
I completely trust myself with the TCS off. But I am aware that people who are so called "guest drivers" in my vehicle, (the few that I do let drive every so often), find the TCS makes it easier to manage and helps it feel more like their own car.That being said, some owners themselves just find that the car "feels" better to them with the TCS on rather than off.
Again... the reason for my post had nothing to do with the
quality of the TCS or relying on it. The ONLY thing it had to do with was that if TCS was causing a hesitation, that viewing it as part of the way TCS was built instead of viewing the hesitation as something wrong with your car, will lead to much less frustration about the hesitation itself.
I.E. Turn the TCS off if you do not like TCS, or leave it on but do not worry about the hesitation.
Last edited by Blacksmoke; 03-25-2010 at 09:53 AM.
03-25-2010, 09:53 AM
#34
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 3,666
I experienced the same issue with my 87 Brenspeed tune when I first loaded on my Stang. I was shifting into 4th gear and it studdered and made my car jump once it caught in gear. It only happended once and I assumed maybe it was taking time for the computer to learn my driving style. I loaded my 89 tune this past weekend and haven't had an issues. =-)
03-25-2010, 03:25 PM
#36
So, after some light testing, on the street lol with TCS off, there is a difference.
When starting from a stop, felt like there was a drag on the wheels but that feeling is now gone with TCS off. I can almost drive like I used to when I had stock tires on. I apply less pressure on the throttle.
There is still hesitation, but so far it feels to be further away from the shift point. So far I like the driving much better with it off. Definitely looses a restrictive feeling.
When starting from a stop, felt like there was a drag on the wheels but that feeling is now gone with TCS off. I can almost drive like I used to when I had stock tires on. I apply less pressure on the throttle.
There is still hesitation, but so far it feels to be further away from the shift point. So far I like the driving much better with it off. Definitely looses a restrictive feeling.
03-26-2010, 08:22 AM
#37
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
So, after some light testing, on the street lol with TCS off, there is a difference.
When starting from a stop, felt like there was a drag on the wheels but that feeling is now gone with TCS off. I can almost drive like I used to when I had stock tires on. I apply less pressure on the throttle.
There is still hesitation, but so far it feels to be further away from the shift point. So far I like the driving much better with it off. Definitely looses a restrictive feeling.
When starting from a stop, felt like there was a drag on the wheels but that feeling is now gone with TCS off. I can almost drive like I used to when I had stock tires on. I apply less pressure on the throttle.
There is still hesitation, but so far it feels to be further away from the shift point. So far I like the driving much better with it off. Definitely looses a restrictive feeling.
Great. Given the way you described it that was what I thought it was. Like I said.. you either drive with it on and accept it without worrying... or you take it off.
Good news man.
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