Dealership drove my car into a pond. FMYLIFE....Dealer Response
03-26-2010, 06:36 PM
#61
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Washington (no, not D.C., the REAL one!)
Posts: 44
Most states have a booby trap law. For example if you suspect robbers might enter your front door when you go on vacation you can't set a trap to go off if it is opened. If you do anyone that is harmed by the trap including a burglar can sue you for damages.
This is the equivalent of what happened here. The owner essentially set a trap that went off when the employee at the dealership used perfectly acceptable way of opening the car door - the unlock button of the remote. He hit the button and the vehicle took off, good thing he or someone else was not standing in front of it.
Has anyone here gone out to their car and found the trunk open? It happens sometimes when the button gets pressed just being in your pocket. What if the owner set off the remote start in this same fashion when a mother was pushing a baby carriage in front of it?
THE SYSTEM SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED THIS WAY. Some people have said he can do what he wants with his car as long as he isn't hurting anyone, well maybe there should be a law that makes it a criminal offense to bypass the safety features of a vehicle because this incident very well could have hurt someone, REGARDLESS OF WHO ACTUALLY HIT THE BUTTON.
This is the equivalent of what happened here. The owner essentially set a trap that went off when the employee at the dealership used perfectly acceptable way of opening the car door - the unlock button of the remote. He hit the button and the vehicle took off, good thing he or someone else was not standing in front of it.
Has anyone here gone out to their car and found the trunk open? It happens sometimes when the button gets pressed just being in your pocket. What if the owner set off the remote start in this same fashion when a mother was pushing a baby carriage in front of it?
THE SYSTEM SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED THIS WAY. Some people have said he can do what he wants with his car as long as he isn't hurting anyone, well maybe there should be a law that makes it a criminal offense to bypass the safety features of a vehicle because this incident very well could have hurt someone, REGARDLESS OF WHO ACTUALLY HIT THE BUTTON.
03-26-2010, 07:05 PM
#62
Site Moderator of Fury!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,104
That booby trap law sounds like crap to me. Not because I don't believe you, but simply because if somebody injures themselves on some trap you have inside of your house, it's INSIDE OF YOUR HOUSE. People who shouldn't be inside would likely avoid hurting themselves if they avoided breaking and entering. I see no problem with this, but maybe that's just me? Anyway, kind of off-topic... I just feel for the guy. Yeah, he made a mistake, but he lost his car in a pond, and I think most people here would be hard pressed to take the objective standpoint were the same to happen to them. The guy just wants his car back. Technically, I don't know a lot about these starters and whatnot, but it sounds to me like if the e-brake really were engaged, the car wouldn't have been able to force itself into that pond. I'm not exactly crying conspiracy or anything, but it just seems kind of... dare I pun... fishy?
alkemist - As Howarmat linked before.. there was an MF thread the owner made asking how to install the remote start and bypass the safety lines, he was met with some objection saying "do not do it" also in that thread was a picture of the remote for the system he used. The button used for the remote start looked identical to a panic button, which dealers, and a lot of other people (including myself) use to locate a car in a parking lot.
So what seems to have happened was, the car was parked, e-brake set, porter comes out to get car, hits panic button to find car, and car jumps enough to roll over a small fence (pictures show fence) and down into a retaining pond.
The car only needed to jump enough to get over the curb which is highly likely. And for those who think the e-brake can hold a manual car back... yes it can if you just put it in gear and slowly let off. But since the car was trying to start in gear, they can and do bounce forward forcefully if it is stuck trying to start... I have done that before in a stick.
Anywho.. this was a fun story.. all over now
03-26-2010, 07:24 PM
#64
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,495
03-26-2010, 07:44 PM
#66
03-26-2010, 07:48 PM
#67
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: S.burbs Chicago
Posts: 4,793
I'll quote myself since so many didn't bother to read the thread and see the pic of the remote.
Adding: Typically remote starts crank for roughly 8 seconds. (That can be changed on most as well.) When it hits a preset RPM it stops. If it doesnt hit that RPM after (8 seconds) it stops, waits a few seconds then makes another attempt.......
Adding: Typically remote starts crank for roughly 8 seconds. (That can be changed on most as well.) When it hits a preset RPM it stops. If it doesnt hit that RPM after (8 seconds) it stops, waits a few seconds then makes another attempt.......
Sucks, but was bound to happen, your own words really.
I would side on the dealer, sorry to be the devils advocate here, but not everyone is going to know what an asterisk is for on a key fob, and it may have even been hit unintentionally.
To me, and most others not familiar with aftermarket systems, it looks more like a panic button. Which a lot of people including shops may use to locate the car in a crowded lot, or one they are not familiar with.
Fault really falls on your hand, and if the dealership wants to wash his hands of this situation, I think it could easily be done after just taking a look at the owners book for your remote start/alarm
From Pythons owners manual
warning! safety first
The following safety warnings must be observed at all times:
➤ Due to the complexity of this system, installation of this
product must only be performed by an authorized Directed
dealer.
➤ When properly installed, this system can start the vehicle via
a command signal from the remote control transmitter.
Therefore, never operate the system in an enclosed area or
partially enclosed area without ventilation (such as a garage).
When parking in an enclosed or partially enclosed area or
when having the vehicle serviced, the remote start system
must be disabled using the installed toggle switch. It is the
user's sole responsibility to properly handle and keep out of
reach from children all remote control transmitters to assure
that the system does not unintentionally remote start the
vehicle.
➤ Use of this product in a manner contrary to its intended
mode of operation may result in property damage, personal
injury, or death. (1) Never remotely start the vehicle with the
vehicle in gear, and (2) Never remotely start the vehicle with
the keys in the ignition. The user must also have the neutral
safety feature of the vehicle periodically checked, wherein the
vehicle must not remotely start while the car is in gear. This
testing should be performed by an authorized Directed dealer
in accordance with the Safety Check outlined in the product
installation guide. If the vehicle starts in gear, cease remote
start operation immediately and consult with the authorized
Directed dealer to fix the problem.
After the remote start module has been installed, contact
your authorized dealer to have him or her test the remote
start module by performing the Safety Check outlined in the
product installation guide. If the vehicle starts when
performing the Neutral Safety Shutdown Circuit test, the
remote start unit has not been properly installed. The remote
start module must be removed or the installer must properly
reinstall the remote start system so that the vehicle does not
start in gear. All installations must be performed by an authorized
Directed dealer. OPERATION OF THE REMOTE
START MODULE IF THE VEHICLE STARTS IN GEAR
IS CONTRARY TO ITS INTENDED MODE OF OPERATION.
OPERATING THE REMOTE START SYSTEM
UNDER THESE CONDITIONS MAY RESULT IN
PROPERTY DAMAGE OR PERSONAL INJURY. YOU
MUST IMMEDIATELY CEASE THE USE OF THE
UNIT AND SEEK THE ASSISTANCE OF AN AUTHORIZED
DIRECTED DEALER TO REPAIR OR
DISCONNECT THE INSTALLED REMOTE START
MODULE. DIRECTED WILL NOT BE HELD
RESPONSIBLE OR PAY FOR INSTALLATION OR
REINSTALLATION COSTS.
Good luck, hate to see the car in that shape.
Edit: I dont think my e-brake would hold the car from moving if started in that situation, unless it was really really pulled up hard. These e brakes blow, lol.
Edit x2: Hell, it rolls with just the ebrake pulled up casually on my inclined driveway that's not that steep. You really need to pull up on them HARD to get it to hold for anything, and why would you bother if it was on flat ground.
I would side on the dealer, sorry to be the devils advocate here, but not everyone is going to know what an asterisk is for on a key fob, and it may have even been hit unintentionally.
To me, and most others not familiar with aftermarket systems, it looks more like a panic button. Which a lot of people including shops may use to locate the car in a crowded lot, or one they are not familiar with.
Fault really falls on your hand, and if the dealership wants to wash his hands of this situation, I think it could easily be done after just taking a look at the owners book for your remote start/alarm
From Pythons owners manual
warning! safety first
The following safety warnings must be observed at all times:
➤ Due to the complexity of this system, installation of this
product must only be performed by an authorized Directed
dealer.
➤ When properly installed, this system can start the vehicle via
a command signal from the remote control transmitter.
Therefore, never operate the system in an enclosed area or
partially enclosed area without ventilation (such as a garage).
When parking in an enclosed or partially enclosed area or
when having the vehicle serviced, the remote start system
must be disabled using the installed toggle switch. It is the
user's sole responsibility to properly handle and keep out of
reach from children all remote control transmitters to assure
that the system does not unintentionally remote start the
vehicle.
➤ Use of this product in a manner contrary to its intended
mode of operation may result in property damage, personal
injury, or death. (1) Never remotely start the vehicle with the
vehicle in gear, and (2) Never remotely start the vehicle with
the keys in the ignition. The user must also have the neutral
safety feature of the vehicle periodically checked, wherein the
vehicle must not remotely start while the car is in gear. This
testing should be performed by an authorized Directed dealer
in accordance with the Safety Check outlined in the product
installation guide. If the vehicle starts in gear, cease remote
start operation immediately and consult with the authorized
Directed dealer to fix the problem.
After the remote start module has been installed, contact
your authorized dealer to have him or her test the remote
start module by performing the Safety Check outlined in the
product installation guide. If the vehicle starts when
performing the Neutral Safety Shutdown Circuit test, the
remote start unit has not been properly installed. The remote
start module must be removed or the installer must properly
reinstall the remote start system so that the vehicle does not
start in gear. All installations must be performed by an authorized
Directed dealer. OPERATION OF THE REMOTE
START MODULE IF THE VEHICLE STARTS IN GEAR
IS CONTRARY TO ITS INTENDED MODE OF OPERATION.
OPERATING THE REMOTE START SYSTEM
UNDER THESE CONDITIONS MAY RESULT IN
PROPERTY DAMAGE OR PERSONAL INJURY. YOU
MUST IMMEDIATELY CEASE THE USE OF THE
UNIT AND SEEK THE ASSISTANCE OF AN AUTHORIZED
DIRECTED DEALER TO REPAIR OR
DISCONNECT THE INSTALLED REMOTE START
MODULE. DIRECTED WILL NOT BE HELD
RESPONSIBLE OR PAY FOR INSTALLATION OR
REINSTALLATION COSTS.
Good luck, hate to see the car in that shape.
Edit: I dont think my e-brake would hold the car from moving if started in that situation, unless it was really really pulled up hard. These e brakes blow, lol.
Edit x2: Hell, it rolls with just the ebrake pulled up casually on my inclined driveway that's not that steep. You really need to pull up on them HARD to get it to hold for anything, and why would you bother if it was on flat ground.
03-26-2010, 07:48 PM
#68
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Newark, Delaware
Posts: 1,259
You can set all the booby traps in your house that you like...so long as you post clear and visible notification that said house is, in fact, booby trapped.
Ever wonder why you see all those "Beware Of Dog" signs?
In order for the car owner to waive all responsibility for this incident, he would have had to walk the dealer techs through the aftermarket mod on his vehicle, producing in writing that the techs had been informed of the remote starter. If the techs proceed to set the car on its way into the pond after being informed, then the dealer is 100% at fault.
The dealer cannot be responsible for the "unknown unknowns" about a customer's vehicle...especially if the owner BYPASSED SAFETY MEASURES to prevent the car from moving on its own once started.
When it comes to remote starters and manual cars, a certain level common sense needs to be applied. An expensive and tragic lesson, for sure...but as cold and unfriendly as this dealer comes across as, you cannot reasonably hold them liable for the car ending up in the pond.
/A day late, and a penny short...just throwing in my one cent.
Ever wonder why you see all those "Beware Of Dog" signs?
In order for the car owner to waive all responsibility for this incident, he would have had to walk the dealer techs through the aftermarket mod on his vehicle, producing in writing that the techs had been informed of the remote starter. If the techs proceed to set the car on its way into the pond after being informed, then the dealer is 100% at fault.
The dealer cannot be responsible for the "unknown unknowns" about a customer's vehicle...especially if the owner BYPASSED SAFETY MEASURES to prevent the car from moving on its own once started.
When it comes to remote starters and manual cars, a certain level common sense needs to be applied. An expensive and tragic lesson, for sure...but as cold and unfriendly as this dealer comes across as, you cannot reasonably hold them liable for the car ending up in the pond.
/A day late, and a penny short...just throwing in my one cent.
03-26-2010, 07:54 PM
#69
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 500
I don't see why the dealer should do anything to help out the owner of the Mustang at all. They aren't at fault, the guy was an idiot and did something to his car that was retarded. It's an unfortunate incident and yes it sucks the guy lost his car BUT we all know when you mod your it's all on you. Maybe if the guy didn't have a mud throwing contest, he could have some leverage to get good pricing on a new car but after defacing a dealership on a Mustang board he lost every right to it.
Would it be nice of the dealership to offer an incentive, yes it is but they're in the business of making money and by offering the guy the D-plan, as was mentioned earlier, they're not getting off the guys mistake.
Suck it up, grow a pair, and move on. Don't do stupid mods to your car that intentionally bypass safety measures, those things are there for a reason.
Would it be nice of the dealership to offer an incentive, yes it is but they're in the business of making money and by offering the guy the D-plan, as was mentioned earlier, they're not getting off the guys mistake.
Suck it up, grow a pair, and move on. Don't do stupid mods to your car that intentionally bypass safety measures, those things are there for a reason.
03-26-2010, 07:59 PM
#70
so, is there a different thread than the one from 2007? could someone get me a link?
as far as i can tell from this thread, its totally the owner's fault, and they're pretty lucky no one got hurt
as far as i can tell from this thread, its totally the owner's fault, and they're pretty lucky no one got hurt