For all of you who said the new 5.0 CAN do F.I. , take a look.
04-27-2010, 08:57 PM
#21
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That's what's great about an engine that 1) flows extremely well and 2) has high compression. You don't need crazy amounts of boost (which heat up the more you go) to make a lot of power.
Many seem to forget (that magazine sure has) that this new 5.0 can vary the valve overlap in the tuning (through TiVCT) which can allow you to have a lower DYNAMIC compression ratio if needed which is one of the several keys in making this thing accept FI.
Last edited by SirKnightTG; 04-27-2010 at 09:09 PM.
04-27-2010, 09:06 PM
#22
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true...that's why I said 4-5 psi might be safe.
but look how the 4.6 3v has progressed. 6 psi was the standard...and now people are regularly pushing 9-10 psi daily.
people are going to do the same with the 5.0 motor. except their bottom end won't be able to take it like the 4.6 3v can.
but look how the 4.6 3v has progressed. 6 psi was the standard...and now people are regularly pushing 9-10 psi daily.
people are going to do the same with the 5.0 motor. except their bottom end won't be able to take it like the 4.6 3v can.
04-27-2010, 09:13 PM
#23
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The magazine guys are speculating yes, but those who are truly in the know, KNOW. Period. The fact is, whipple has been working with Ford on their supercharger for the 5.0 for years. This isn't something they just started to think about. There's a reason why the GT350 will have a whipple stock.
Nope. They may not be truly forged like a 03/04 Cobra, but they are NOT weaker than the 4.6.
Nope. They may not be truly forged like a 03/04 Cobra, but they are NOT weaker than the 4.6.
Last edited by SirKnightTG; 04-27-2010 at 09:16 PM.
04-27-2010, 09:39 PM
#24
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I'd be willing to bet money that the Shelby 350's price tag is including forged internals to handle the boost. Why do you think they want so much for it? It's sure not the cost of the blower or the body kit which on the outside "mite" cost 12K for both installed. All the rest of the that price tag is going into forged internals and labor.....
04-27-2010, 09:45 PM
#25
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I'd be willing to bet money that the Shelby 350's price tag is including forged internals to handle the boost. Why do you think they want so much for it? It's sure not the cost of the blower or the body kit which on the outside "mite" cost 12K for both installed. All the rest of the that price tag is going into forged internals and labor.....
You forgot the cost of the Shelby name tag too.
No telling how much that went in to it HAHA... but seriously too.
04-28-2010, 02:24 AM
#26
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all kidding aside...that GT350 motor is not going to be the same motor that all other 2011 models get.
http://www.shelbyautos.com/vehicles/2011GT350.asp
it is getting a serialized plate for the motor alone like my Bullitt has for the entire car...Shelby won't just be throwing those around without a reason. There is a reason the Cobra's have unique identified motor build plaques...because they are built by hand by SVT. The same reasoning goes for the Shelby 5.0
http://www.shelbyautos.com/vehicles/2011GT350.asp
it is getting a serialized plate for the motor alone like my Bullitt has for the entire car...Shelby won't just be throwing those around without a reason. There is a reason the Cobra's have unique identified motor build plaques...because they are built by hand by SVT. The same reasoning goes for the Shelby 5.0
04-28-2010, 07:53 AM
#27
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I guess it's safe to say you can't trust those fuktards in that magazine now.
Un-fukking-believable.
Read this: http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31728
Un-fukking-believable.
Read this: http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31728
Until they hit the streets and these tuners get their hands on them we aren't going to know a damn thing about what the new 5.0 is really capable of.
04-28-2010, 07:54 AM
#28
Here is an article in 5.0 magazine.
According to this... the new 5.0 CANNOT stand forced induction...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...es_engine.html
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"Like current Mustang GT rods, Coyote connecting rods are forged from powdered metal. Optimized for reduced weight and redesigned for uniform bearing loads around the big end, the Coyote rod eliminates the 4.6 rod's balance pad. These rods are plenty strong for stock rpm and power but will not survive forced induction."
------------------------------------------------------------
But then later it says this in on that same page.
(by the way I am getting these from the little picture captions at the bottom)
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The coyote damper is a traditional two-piece, single-elastomer design. Most telling are the dual sheaves on an engine with nothing more than a water pump, alternator, and air conditioning compressor. Currently the inner sheave is used for the AC and the outer sheave for everything else. But it's obvious to us that the inner sheave is for a belt-driven supercharger at some future date. There is no provision for power steering as Ford has switched to electric power-assisted steering.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why the hell would they say this if they said the engine could not take F.I.?
THEN they go on to say this...
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"Most ominously, supercharging will require a stronger forged rod, so we expect to see those, and, no doubt, a short-block in the FRPP catalog before long. This adds a whole new layer of commitment to bolting a blower on a Coyote. We'll have to let the brave among us prove the standard Coyote rods' boost tolerance. For those planning on a rod-exchanging teardown right away, Ford says the Cobra's Manley forged rod will just fit, but you must be careful. No word on how to package a forged piston and rod combination."
--------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like they are trying to say it can't take it... but wait... lets wait for some people to try it and see if it can take it....
WHAT THE HELL are they trying to say?
First they say the standard rods on it CAN NOT take F.I., then they say we will have to wait to see how much boost they can take? WHAT THE HELL?
Well people?
Let's hear it...
According to this... the new 5.0 CANNOT stand forced induction...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...es_engine.html
------------------------------------------------------------
"Like current Mustang GT rods, Coyote connecting rods are forged from powdered metal. Optimized for reduced weight and redesigned for uniform bearing loads around the big end, the Coyote rod eliminates the 4.6 rod's balance pad. These rods are plenty strong for stock rpm and power but will not survive forced induction."
------------------------------------------------------------
But then later it says this in on that same page.
(by the way I am getting these from the little picture captions at the bottom)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The coyote damper is a traditional two-piece, single-elastomer design. Most telling are the dual sheaves on an engine with nothing more than a water pump, alternator, and air conditioning compressor. Currently the inner sheave is used for the AC and the outer sheave for everything else. But it's obvious to us that the inner sheave is for a belt-driven supercharger at some future date. There is no provision for power steering as Ford has switched to electric power-assisted steering.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why the hell would they say this if they said the engine could not take F.I.?
THEN they go on to say this...
----------------------------------------------------------
"Most ominously, supercharging will require a stronger forged rod, so we expect to see those, and, no doubt, a short-block in the FRPP catalog before long. This adds a whole new layer of commitment to bolting a blower on a Coyote. We'll have to let the brave among us prove the standard Coyote rods' boost tolerance. For those planning on a rod-exchanging teardown right away, Ford says the Cobra's Manley forged rod will just fit, but you must be careful. No word on how to package a forged piston and rod combination."
--------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like they are trying to say it can't take it... but wait... lets wait for some people to try it and see if it can take it....
WHAT THE HELL are they trying to say?
First they say the standard rods on it CAN NOT take F.I., then they say we will have to wait to see how much boost they can take? WHAT THE HELL?
Well people?
Let's hear it...
With this approach, they won't have to redesign the engine should they start supercharging from the factory. Instead, they simply change a few of the components they use like the rods and pistons.
Will it be friendly for supercharging in it's current form? I'd say no. At least not in the aspect the 3v will take a simple bolt-on supercharging approach. There will be more involved in safely supercharging a 2011. Then again, with a rating of 100+ more horsepower than the 3v some could argue that supercharging is less of a concern off the showroom floor. Plus, the N/A 5.0 engine will be more tolerant of a bad tune or bad gas than a blown 3v at that power level.
04-28-2010, 08:46 AM
#29
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So about a 50 crank hp difference between the 281 3v and the new 302, at their limits on stock internals, when supercharged.
Nice but I guess I don't see how that's worth jumping for joy over.
I've no doubt that just like the 281 3v motors are going to blow at less than the "limit". Some will be fine, some won't.
Nice but I guess I don't see how that's worth jumping for joy over.
I've no doubt that just like the 281 3v motors are going to blow at less than the "limit". Some will be fine, some won't.
04-28-2010, 11:00 AM
#30
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