Will3212

you are suppose to let the clutch slip when you start right because you have to let the clutch out slowly while giving it a little gas. Moving the clutch out slowly will cause the clutch to slip so why do people say it's bad? is it only bad if it's done for like a long period of time or something.

lundefinedl

I've been driving stick for about 15 years now, but I can remember when I first started learning. It takes awhile before driving it becomes natural, so learning for the first time on a 2011 GT may be hectic.

There are probably 4 main areas to work on

1. starting from a dead stop and stopping

In every car I've had, you could get the car moving in first without using the throttle if you let the clutch out at a constant rate. The key is to practice doing this, see how fast you can let it out without stalling the engine. Also, memorize the location where the clutch starts to mesh. Once you get the hang of this, try to lightly feather the throttle so that the engine moves slightly above idle. In almost every circumstance, except on a hill, this is all that is necessary to get moving. Also, you have to always remember to pull the car out of gear just before you stop. Ideally, you never want to leave the car in gear as the engine speed goes below idle.

3. upshift

For normal driving, the simplest technique is to push the clutch all the way in, move the stick into neutral, allow the engine RPM to fall slightly, then apply force against the stick into the gear position that you want, then let the clutch out slowly.

The reason I say apply force is important, applying a force on the lever into a gear position ( while the clutch is in ), will synchronize the gears within the transmission before they mesh. You should try to rev match on upshifts by allowing the engine RPM to fall some difference. This difference is always greater at higher RPM, so it isn't always a static number. You should learn what the difference in RPM is at in each gear for every 1000 or so RPM.

A word of advice on shifting, if you think you have the clutch to the floor but it feels like force you use to shift is greater than usual, train yourself to give up. Analyze what you are doing, it could be that you let the clutch out too quickly or that you are trying the wrong gear.

This is unlikely but dangerous, if you think you are shifting to 4th but you are accidently pushing against 2nd gear, the synchros will resist the shift and you will have to press very hard to get it in, and going into 2nd gear at speeds that are too high for it would be very dangerous. You shoudl always train yourself to give up on a gear if it requires too much force. Also, if you learn to double clutch and rev match well, the force to shift becomes effortless.

4. downshift

This can be tricky and has more techniques the basics can be pickd up quickly, but the advanced techniques can take years to perfect:

*A newbie should probably just do the same bit as upshift, but slow the vehicle down so that it is at the right speed for the gear before letting out the clutch.
*After used to this, try to rev the engine a tiny bit and let the clutch out sooner
*Once rev matching has been mastered, learn to double clutch - look it up

The benifits of heel toe, (which you should NOT attempt to learn until you have mastered everything else):

As a delivery driver many years ago, I realized a delima. While braking for a turn, if you use your right foot to brake, it was impossible to rev match a downshift. Usually I would shift into the appropriate gear for my speed after braking. For years I did this, which is equivalent to the most basic kind of downshifting imaginable. Later, while sim racing, I found that all of the fast drivers either did left foot braking or heel toe. I decided to learn heel toe and it was halarious ( never try to learn this on a real car without a safe place to practice ). I ttook awhile to learn, but what I found was that my driving was much smoother while slowing down and turning.

lundefinedl

double post

hawkeye18

Dude... no. No offense, but people like you are why manuals are dying out; nobody wants to learn them when asshats like you demand perfection from the very beginning.

You're telling me you have never once in your entire life stalled out a manual? Actually, don't bother answering; the answer is of course you have. You tell me you haven't and I'll say you're full of ****.

If you are learning how to drive a stick, you are going to stall at least once or twice. Most likely more than that. It's just part of the learning process; using a clutch correctly requires finesse, and that can only be learned.

The way I teach people to drive stick is to not let them use the gas at all; in a car with 412hp, it has more than enough torque at idle to get the car moving without it. Just start by letting the clutch out slowly. You aren't ever going to overheat the clutch at idle, just keep slipping it until you get a feel for it, and learn what getting the car moving feels like, the engagement point, etc. Then, you can start using gas.

Once you learn the engagement point and characteristics, the gas is somewhat superfluous except in deciding how fast you leave a stop.

Blacksmoke

Really? You actually believe manuals are dying out because
there is some sort of society of jerks that is making people not want to learn how to drive them? HAHAHHAHHAHAHAAA!

Oh and also...just because you do not agree with someone saying
stalling in unacceptable does NOT mean you must resort to
personal insults or name calling. And saying "no offense" right before tossing a
personal insult to someone makes no sense at all.

I don't think that stalling when you first learn is unacceptable either, but I don't start
acting immature and start calling people names. You don't even know what he meant by
unacceptable. He could have meant it was unacceptable for the car's health. Either way he was
not trying to be a jerk and you taking such a reproach to his statement, whether he was right or wrong, WAS WRONG on your part.

The members of the forum would appreciate it if you would please keep things civil instead
of acting in such a way as you did.

It shows immaturity and lack of respect to the forum.
It's people like YOU that make others not want to visit the forum.

Snakebite64

If you can walk and chew gum at the SAME time you will be alright. ^^^the reply you speak of does not really seem all that bad or are you having a bad day, Merry Christmas and cheers

hawkeye18

Casting judgment on an unavoidable act is ***-hattish; i don't care who you are. As for your impassioned reply:

Blacksmoke

Like I said before....
How are you to know if he is "passing judgment"?

When he said it was unacceptable he could have EASILY meant it is unacceptable for the car... meaning he meant it will hurt the car.
Again... even though he would not be very accurate on that he would still not be passing judgment on anyone.

Calling someone an asshat or blaming them for being the reason people don't want to learn how to drive a manual is both immature and ridiculous... period.
There is no defense for it at all.
Even IF HE WAS passing judgment.

It's like a five year old saying "BUT HE STARTED IT!!!!"

My reply only re states what the forum along with the mods themselves feel.
That personal insults are uncalled for on the forum...period.

P.S.
Cutting and pasting pics does not make you, or your
immature reply to his post justified.
Nor does it make you seem witty either.
It is a cookie cutter response that is seen all the time from people trying to defend
their mistakes instead of just being mature enough to say,
"Hey I'm sorry and I made a mistake. It was uncalled for."

If you wanted to be original or show wit... THAT would do it.
Not trying to defend behavior that is outright childish.

Just an FYI too.
I can promise you one thing.
If you decide to keep up with personal insults your time on the forum will be short.

Norm Peterson

People put enough pressure on themselves to be able to learn how to use a clutch, and it is a skill that takes a certain amount of practice. So what they DON'T need is somebody telling them that they must be perfect from the get-go. And since chuck did not go on to explain exactly what he meant, hawkeye's interpretation is at least as valid as yours. Probably more so, since most people on the direct receiving end of that sort of comment would take it to be insulting.


Now I'm going to ask you to think a little.

It's not the same now as when I learned to drive stick. When I learned, most people I knew drove stick and there was at least one manual transmission car in most driveways. My Dad, my Mom, her sister, my uncle, my grandmother's sister, the guy across the street . . . Hell, most everybody in my neighborhood who drove at all, could drive stick. I probably knew more about a clutch by age 8 than many people these days do at 18.

But most cars for the past 30 years or so have been automatics, with many cars being automatic-only. My point here is that a great many people have had near-zero to zero experience even watching somebody drive stick. They have nothing to start from. No idea at all.

So what's killing off the manuals really is to some extent an unwillingness to learn - you've got that part right - and this unwillingness is both on the part of the newer drivers as well as their only slightly older parents. Manual tranny choices tend to disappear once the rate of buyers opting for them drops below whatever is needed to continue justifying them. A sustained less-than-5% rate of MT fitment in the Maxima recently turned that long-time MT holdout over to AT-only fairly recently.


I've probably been driving stick since before anybody else in this thread so far was even born. Guess what - I still stall a car on occasion. I know the sorts of situations where it is most likely to occur - mainly when swapping between cars whose clutches work a little differently or whose engines have vastly different torque characteristics. But it still happens, and it will continue to happen. I'm not the least bit afraid to admit this.

chuck was a bit out of line on that one particular remark, and deserved to get called on it. It really isn't defensible.


Do you always laugh out loud at whatever passing thoughts cross your mind???


Norm

Blacksmoke

LOL not always but I do a lot I must admit.
I have had a few people point that out to me hehe. (see there I go again!)

Most people that I have talked to that do not drive stick simply do not do so because they don't like having to shift gears. That AND like you said... the laziness of being unwilling to learn. Pressure I have NEVER witnessed
to be part of the reason.
I personally have never witnessed anyone put "pressure" on someone when learning to drive stick.

In fact to do so would be pretty ridiculous.
That is one reason why I did not find his comment to have anything to do with "unacceptable" on the terms
that he was accused of putting it in.

Really I saw no direct link to what he said having to do with being personal on any level.

The way it was written was pretty technical if you look at the rest of his post and I think you would almost have to be searching for an insult in order to find that offensive.
Like I said to me it read as unacceptable to the car's health.

Regardless, Chuck went right to assuming that he was "judging" someone's actions in some sort of way and proceeded to not only "judge" what this guy said and put it in a light that might not even be correct, but he also proceeded to throw personal insults.
Pretty immature AND hypocritical.

Again... I think the reasons for less people driving manuals these days involve both convenience and laziness sometimes.

I am one of the "old school" people as far as the forums go.
I am almost 34 and I live in the "old school" part of the U.S.
I know what it is to grow up with pressure from parents and others.

But I really don't think pressure or some sort of huge amount of teachers putting big pressure on new learners to drive stick perfectly right away is a reason for people not driving manuals.

I'm sorry I don't see that as a reason for some big drop in people driving manuals.
To me that sounds pretty comical.