How would you damage the 2011 mustangs tranny?
12-26-2010, 09:21 AM
#21
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
I will give you that 90% of chuck's post was constructive and on track. I owe him that much credit.
But that last 10% is exactly like a sore thumb. What are you going to notice more and probably remember longer, the one that hurts or the nine that don't?
Norm
But that last 10% is exactly like a sore thumb. What are you going to notice more and probably remember longer, the one that hurts or the nine that don't?
Norm
12-26-2010, 09:27 AM
#22
6th Gear Member
The OP is concerned about damaging his tranny when learning to drive a manual. Unless you're a retard, you'll learn just fine, even without everyones input. You learned to ride a bike without the internet when you were a kid and that was a lot harder. Get the manual and have a ball.
12-26-2010, 03:16 PM
#23
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 66
I've been driving stick for about 15 years now, but I can remember when I first started learning. It takes awhile before driving it becomes natural, so learning for the first time on a 2011 GT may be hectic.
There are probably 4 main areas to work on
1. starting from a dead stop and stopping
In every car I've had, you could get the car moving in first without using the throttle if you let the clutch out at a constant rate. The key is to practice doing this, see how fast you can let it out without stalling the engine. Also, memorize the location where the clutch starts to mesh. Once you get the hang of this, try to lightly feather the throttle so that the engine moves slightly above idle. In almost every circumstance, except on a hill, this is all that is necessary to get moving. Also, you have to always remember to pull the car out of gear just before you stop. Ideally, you never want to leave the car in gear as the engine speed goes below idle.
3. upshift
For normal driving, the simplest technique is to push the clutch all the way in, move the stick into neutral, allow the engine RPM to fall slightly, then apply force against the stick into the gear position that you want, then let the clutch out slowly.
The reason I say apply force is important, applying a force on the lever into a gear position ( while the clutch is in ), will synchronize the gears within the transmission before they mesh. You should try to rev match on upshifts by allowing the engine RPM to fall some difference. This difference is always greater at higher RPM, so it isn't always a static number. You should learn what the difference in RPM is at in each gear for every 1000 or so RPM.
A word of advice on shifting, if you think you have the clutch to the floor but it feels like force you use to shift is greater than usual, train yourself to give up. Analyze what you are doing, it could be that you let the clutch out too quickly or that you are trying the wrong gear.
This is unlikely but dangerous, if you think you are shifting to 4th but you are accidently pushing against 2nd gear, the synchros will resist the shift and you will have to press very hard to get it in, and going into 2nd gear at speeds that are too high for it would be very dangerous. You shoudl always train yourself to give up on a gear if it requires too much force. Also, if you learn to double clutch and rev match well, the force to shift becomes effortless.
4. downshift
This can be tricky and has more techniques the basics can be pickd up quickly, but the advanced techniques can take years to perfect:
*A newbie should probably just do the same bit as upshift, but slow the vehicle down so that it is at the right speed for the gear before letting out the clutch.
*After used to this, try to rev the engine a tiny bit and let the clutch out sooner
*Once rev matching has been mastered, learn to double clutch - look it up
The benifits of heel toe, (which you should NOT attempt to learn until you have mastered everything else):
As a delivery driver many years ago, I realized a delima. While braking for a turn, if you use your right foot to brake, it was impossible to rev match a downshift. Usually I would shift into the appropriate gear for my speed after braking. For years I did this, which is equivalent to the most basic kind of downshifting imaginable. Later, while sim racing, I found that all of the fast drivers either did left foot braking or heel toe. I decided to learn heel toe and it was halarious ( never try to learn this on a real car without a safe place to practice ). I ttook awhile to learn, but what I found was that my driving was much smoother while slowing down and turning.
There are probably 4 main areas to work on
1. starting from a dead stop and stopping
In every car I've had, you could get the car moving in first without using the throttle if you let the clutch out at a constant rate. The key is to practice doing this, see how fast you can let it out without stalling the engine. Also, memorize the location where the clutch starts to mesh. Once you get the hang of this, try to lightly feather the throttle so that the engine moves slightly above idle. In almost every circumstance, except on a hill, this is all that is necessary to get moving. Also, you have to always remember to pull the car out of gear just before you stop. Ideally, you never want to leave the car in gear as the engine speed goes below idle.
3. upshift
For normal driving, the simplest technique is to push the clutch all the way in, move the stick into neutral, allow the engine RPM to fall slightly, then apply force against the stick into the gear position that you want, then let the clutch out slowly.
The reason I say apply force is important, applying a force on the lever into a gear position ( while the clutch is in ), will synchronize the gears within the transmission before they mesh. You should try to rev match on upshifts by allowing the engine RPM to fall some difference. This difference is always greater at higher RPM, so it isn't always a static number. You should learn what the difference in RPM is at in each gear for every 1000 or so RPM.
A word of advice on shifting, if you think you have the clutch to the floor but it feels like force you use to shift is greater than usual, train yourself to give up. Analyze what you are doing, it could be that you let the clutch out too quickly or that you are trying the wrong gear.
This is unlikely but dangerous, if you think you are shifting to 4th but you are accidently pushing against 2nd gear, the synchros will resist the shift and you will have to press very hard to get it in, and going into 2nd gear at speeds that are too high for it would be very dangerous. You shoudl always train yourself to give up on a gear if it requires too much force. Also, if you learn to double clutch and rev match well, the force to shift becomes effortless.
4. downshift
This can be tricky and has more techniques the basics can be pickd up quickly, but the advanced techniques can take years to perfect:
*A newbie should probably just do the same bit as upshift, but slow the vehicle down so that it is at the right speed for the gear before letting out the clutch.
*After used to this, try to rev the engine a tiny bit and let the clutch out sooner
*Once rev matching has been mastered, learn to double clutch - look it up
The benifits of heel toe, (which you should NOT attempt to learn until you have mastered everything else):
As a delivery driver many years ago, I realized a delima. While braking for a turn, if you use your right foot to brake, it was impossible to rev match a downshift. Usually I would shift into the appropriate gear for my speed after braking. For years I did this, which is equivalent to the most basic kind of downshifting imaginable. Later, while sim racing, I found that all of the fast drivers either did left foot braking or heel toe. I decided to learn heel toe and it was halarious ( never try to learn this on a real car without a safe place to practice ). I ttook awhile to learn, but what I found was that my driving was much smoother while slowing down and turning.
12-26-2010, 03:31 PM
#24
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 346
well im not an expert seeing as i learned in the dealers parking lot then drove it home roughly 3 months ago. but i was taught to feather the clutch.
when you first start out dont touch the gas at all you can get all the way up to 6th without using the gas once
- slowly let the clutch out and give it a little time if you have to
- once it gets rolling you can let it out completely and give it a little gas
shifting is easy compared to getting the car rolling.
stalling is unavoidable when learning to drive stick, i personally stalled my stang at least 20 times within the first couple days but after you get used to it its like riding a bike
EDIT: about riding the clutch, the difference between a good driver and a great driver is the ability to minimize clutch wear, the less time you ride the clutch the less clutch wear you'll get. if you let it out too fast your shifts will be jerky or you may stall, if you let it out too slow your shifts will be smoother but you will wear out your clutch faster.
when you first start out dont touch the gas at all you can get all the way up to 6th without using the gas once
- slowly let the clutch out and give it a little time if you have to
- once it gets rolling you can let it out completely and give it a little gas
shifting is easy compared to getting the car rolling.
stalling is unavoidable when learning to drive stick, i personally stalled my stang at least 20 times within the first couple days but after you get used to it its like riding a bike
EDIT: about riding the clutch, the difference between a good driver and a great driver is the ability to minimize clutch wear, the less time you ride the clutch the less clutch wear you'll get. if you let it out too fast your shifts will be jerky or you may stall, if you let it out too slow your shifts will be smoother but you will wear out your clutch faster.
Last edited by KonaStangPete; 12-26-2010 at 03:36 PM.
12-26-2010, 04:40 PM
#25
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
But there is no way to avoid this, other than to side-step the clutch and either stall straight away or leave patches of rubber every time you start from a complete stop (meanwhile, you're praying that the much higher impact loading doesn't break anything like, say, U-joints). So you accept A LITTLE slip, which the clutch disc and pressure plate are designed to be able to live with for many, many miles. This little bit, under low power, won't hurt anything.
When you're stopped, the engine is turning at maybe 700 rpm. The wheels, zero rpm. It is not practical to try to eliminate every last bit of slippage, since it takes a finite amount of time to get the wheels rolling at 50 or whatever rpm for them agrees perfectly with the engine's rpm.
It's riding the clutch pedal - using it for a place to rest your left foot, for example - that kills OE clutches. Allowing the clutch to slip a lot while it is carrying lots of power or you're at high revs, or to slip slightly for extended periods of time is what's bad. Most people in casual conversation fail to make this distinction clear enough for those who are just learning.
Four of my last six cars have made it past 100,000 miles on the original clutch, with various drivers. The other two are too new to have that many miles on them.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 12-26-2010 at 04:44 PM.
12-26-2010, 05:01 PM
#26
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 12,260
I learned by slowly releasing the clutch until you see the RPMs dip then start giving it gas and off you go.
12-26-2010, 05:41 PM
#28
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 394
When teaching my gf on my old car, I told her to just slowly let out the clutch and stall it. Once she was comfortable with what would happen, she was less scared and could relax. I wanted her to see the point at which it dies, so she could get a feel for when to stop.
12-26-2010, 06:52 PM
#29
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 116
Yes it does slip the clutch. Remember, a clutch is a mechanism that is designed to slip or grip. In a stickshift, to start moving, the objective is always to slip the clutch in order to smoothly syncrhonize the transmission and engine speeds. The key is that you want to learn how to slip as little as possible while still making a smooth transition.
12-27-2010, 09:57 AM
#30
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 58
My comment on "stalling is unacceptable" was really more tongue in cheek and more about a goal to achieve...in terms of saving the clutch and also with being in control of the car... not a personal put down in anyway. Of course everybody stalls sometimes. My mistake for not clarifying my comment and no harm intended. It was strickly about the car not the person.
I also liked the suggestion about renting a U-Haul to practice on.
I also liked the suggestion about renting a U-Haul to practice on.
Last edited by chuck biscuits; 12-27-2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason: .
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