Reduced keyfob range, and TPMS failure
08-07-2011, 08:38 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 7
Reduced keyfob range, and TPMS failure
I had an issue come up on my 2007 GT shortly before I moved last fall that I haven't fixed yet, and wanted to get some advice.
Whoever I start the car, I get an alert about "Tire Pressure Monitor Fault". I had just enough time to take it to my tire shop back before the move, and they found the right rear TPMS sensor had a dead battery. They diagnosed this based on not getting a reading from a portable scanner, while all 3 other tires reported just fine. They replaced the sensor (seems the battery is sealed in), and could read the new one with their tool, but couldn't get the car to pick up the new sensor.
Right around the same time, I had been noticing that I had to be pretty much next to the car to get my kebob to work. Even being at the rear didn't work sometimes, I had to be right up next to the front area of the car. Once I dug out my spare key, the same lack of range was found to be true with it too. I went ahead and still replaced the battery in the fob, and same issue.
Now it's starting to seem like these two issues are related, so I did some research. I found that the smart junction box (SJB) controls the TPMS, along with the fob. I tried my best to inspect it for any signs of damage or loose connections, but couldn't see any problems. I didn't get to following the antenna lead, due to the problems just working in that area presents without tearing a lit of pieces of the car out. Since no other issues have developed, it was never a high priority.
Fast forward to now, and the car is nearing one of the more expensive maintainence needs. I decide to take it to a dealer local to my new area, and ask them to also look into the keyfob/TPMS issue. The service advisor told me they found out the SJB is defective, and a new one would cost $700+. Being that I have the service documents, I decided to ask what error code they found that pointed to needing to replace the entire box. They couldn't provide me one, but continued to insist on replacement.
Anyone had a similar issue? Digging around, like new SJB's seem to run ~$150 online, so the $700+ quote seems way high. Considering this dealership decided to rotate my tires as part of the service, but not balance them (thus introducing a vibration in the steering at 40+mph), along with their pushing extended warranties, I'm really feeling like this is all just an attempted money grab.
Whoever I start the car, I get an alert about "Tire Pressure Monitor Fault". I had just enough time to take it to my tire shop back before the move, and they found the right rear TPMS sensor had a dead battery. They diagnosed this based on not getting a reading from a portable scanner, while all 3 other tires reported just fine. They replaced the sensor (seems the battery is sealed in), and could read the new one with their tool, but couldn't get the car to pick up the new sensor.
Right around the same time, I had been noticing that I had to be pretty much next to the car to get my kebob to work. Even being at the rear didn't work sometimes, I had to be right up next to the front area of the car. Once I dug out my spare key, the same lack of range was found to be true with it too. I went ahead and still replaced the battery in the fob, and same issue.
Now it's starting to seem like these two issues are related, so I did some research. I found that the smart junction box (SJB) controls the TPMS, along with the fob. I tried my best to inspect it for any signs of damage or loose connections, but couldn't see any problems. I didn't get to following the antenna lead, due to the problems just working in that area presents without tearing a lit of pieces of the car out. Since no other issues have developed, it was never a high priority.
Fast forward to now, and the car is nearing one of the more expensive maintainence needs. I decide to take it to a dealer local to my new area, and ask them to also look into the keyfob/TPMS issue. The service advisor told me they found out the SJB is defective, and a new one would cost $700+. Being that I have the service documents, I decided to ask what error code they found that pointed to needing to replace the entire box. They couldn't provide me one, but continued to insist on replacement.
Anyone had a similar issue? Digging around, like new SJB's seem to run ~$150 online, so the $700+ quote seems way high. Considering this dealership decided to rotate my tires as part of the service, but not balance them (thus introducing a vibration in the steering at 40+mph), along with their pushing extended warranties, I'm really feeling like this is all just an attempted money grab.
08-08-2011, 03:49 PM
#2
Hi drakino,
I'm sorry to hear of your negative opinion of the dealer's estimate. You might want to ask for a written estimate, and possibly get a second opinion from another dealership you feel more comfortable with. Please let me know if I can be of any help.
~Natasha
I'm sorry to hear of your negative opinion of the dealer's estimate. You might want to ask for a written estimate, and possibly get a second opinion from another dealership you feel more comfortable with. Please let me know if I can be of any help.
~Natasha
08-08-2011, 04:00 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 7
Thanks Natasha. I have plans to write up the whole story soon, as my second attempt to work with this particular dealership this morning didn't address the problem. I did get a better breakdown of the cost from them this time, the $700+ price earlier was a combination of parts and labor, something that wasn't clearly conveyed the first time they told me. But because they still failed to troubleshoot specifically what I asked them to, I will no longer be visiting this particular dealership in the future. For now I will withhold the name and location until I have written up a more formal response.
Sadly I don't have another dealership in the area that I'm comfortable with, as I just recently moved to my current location. I will be checking with others though on this issue, and to feel them out in general. I do envision another Ford in my future, but just not from a dealership that treats a new customer badly.
Sadly I don't have another dealership in the area that I'm comfortable with, as I just recently moved to my current location. I will be checking with others though on this issue, and to feel them out in general. I do envision another Ford in my future, but just not from a dealership that treats a new customer badly.
08-08-2011, 04:01 PM
#4
6th Gear Member
I'd really wonder what their basis for the SJB "failure" is. Typically, SJB issues show themselves via other more severe electrical gremlins like eroneous and/or intermittent operation of electronics and electrical devices.
Have you ever checked for the chronic water leak described in one of the many TSB's for these S197's? That often results in SJB problems although I've never heard of the leak causing TPMS and key fob issues.
db157 is very familiar with the SJB functions and might be able to shed some light if the keyfob and TPMS are in any way related. I'd definitely poo-poo the dealers diagnosis at this time.
Too bad Ford corporate can't crack-down on how dealership maintenance departments fu... I mean, screw... with their customers. A great car company with customers driven away (no pun intended) by scam artist dealerships.
Have you ever checked for the chronic water leak described in one of the many TSB's for these S197's? That often results in SJB problems although I've never heard of the leak causing TPMS and key fob issues.
db157 is very familiar with the SJB functions and might be able to shed some light if the keyfob and TPMS are in any way related. I'd definitely poo-poo the dealers diagnosis at this time.
Too bad Ford corporate can't crack-down on how dealership maintenance departments fu... I mean, screw... with their customers. A great car company with customers driven away (no pun intended) by scam artist dealerships.
Last edited by Nuke; 08-08-2011 at 04:03 PM.
08-08-2011, 04:14 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 7
@Nuke, the dealership did claim to check to see if any of the TSBs matched, specifically ones regarding corrosion, but didn't find anything there. How much I trust them on this is another issue, but they claim to have at least checked.
My theory, and what I tried to convey to them multiple times is that it is likely an antenna issue. I did a simple test where I took the key fob and tried unlocking the car with it positioned at the Mustang logo on each wheel. It worked 100% of the time at the wheels where the TPMS can read the tires properly, and had problems working next to the two tires that the system can't read. The service documents show only one coaxial antenna going into the SJB, so my guess is that both the key fob and the TPMS uses the same antenna.
My theory, and what I tried to convey to them multiple times is that it is likely an antenna issue. I did a simple test where I took the key fob and tried unlocking the car with it positioned at the Mustang logo on each wheel. It worked 100% of the time at the wheels where the TPMS can read the tires properly, and had problems working next to the two tires that the system can't read. The service documents show only one coaxial antenna going into the SJB, so my guess is that both the key fob and the TPMS uses the same antenna.
08-08-2011, 04:32 PM
#7
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gallifrey
Posts: 1,596
I don't know if the link here clearly shows the antenna in the wiring diagram for the key fob but I know that it does for the TPMS. Let us know if that helps.
Ah...here we go...That references the SJB external antenna for RKE, but only in that service manual. Odd.
Last edited by wayne613; 08-08-2011 at 05:24 PM.
11-01-2011, 09:17 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 7
Might as well close off this thread with the final solution. The initial dealership was Tuttle-Click Ford in Irvine, CA. I never heard back from them after sending them a copy of the letter sent to Natasha. I'm assuming they just wrote me off as one of those "know it all" customers, rather then taking any lessons to heart. A shame really, since I found many other negative reviews of this place when I looked deeper. They also continue to send me junk mail for specials, guess they didn't get the hint I wasn't coming back.
On the plus side though, the issue is fixed, and I now have a preferred dealership to go to that is almost the same distance away as Tuttle Click was. Santa Margarita Ford not only met, but exceeded my expectations. I went in to have my tires replaced (the ones Tuttle Click rotated, but never balanced). They were close enough to end of life (yellow by Ford's standards) that I decided to replace them before the winter rain season. They tried to locate the same performance tires I had on the car, and didn't see any in stock with their suppliers. The service guy realized the tire dealer was on site, and brought him out to talk to me. Between the service guy and the tire person, they picked out four choices they felt were comparable. When presented with all four, I picked which ones I liked, and they ordered them to be ready the next day. The service person wrapped up my appointment, and introduced me to another service assistant who would take over since he'd be off work the next day.
When I brought the car back to have the tires replaced along with fixing the TPMS/Key fob issue, the service person assigned to me kept me in the loop and was proactive. They actually listened to my prior diagnostics, and indeed found my suspicion to be partially correct. The antenna going into the SJB was not fully connected, causing the loss of range. Unfortunately it didn't fix the TPMS issue. They kept the car longer (after asking if it was ok to do so) to talk to Ford Engineering (my appointment was on a weekend, and past the hours they were open). In the end, they tracked the problem to a short in the SJB, and replacing it fixed the issue.
Big difference in service between the two dealerships. One wasted a ton of my time and ignored most everything I said. And they quoted me $1000 to fix the issue without diagnosing it fully. The other dealership actually worked with me, and in the end, only charged ~$400 to do the exact same thing the first dealership wanted to blindly do.
On the plus side though, the issue is fixed, and I now have a preferred dealership to go to that is almost the same distance away as Tuttle Click was. Santa Margarita Ford not only met, but exceeded my expectations. I went in to have my tires replaced (the ones Tuttle Click rotated, but never balanced). They were close enough to end of life (yellow by Ford's standards) that I decided to replace them before the winter rain season. They tried to locate the same performance tires I had on the car, and didn't see any in stock with their suppliers. The service guy realized the tire dealer was on site, and brought him out to talk to me. Between the service guy and the tire person, they picked out four choices they felt were comparable. When presented with all four, I picked which ones I liked, and they ordered them to be ready the next day. The service person wrapped up my appointment, and introduced me to another service assistant who would take over since he'd be off work the next day.
When I brought the car back to have the tires replaced along with fixing the TPMS/Key fob issue, the service person assigned to me kept me in the loop and was proactive. They actually listened to my prior diagnostics, and indeed found my suspicion to be partially correct. The antenna going into the SJB was not fully connected, causing the loss of range. Unfortunately it didn't fix the TPMS issue. They kept the car longer (after asking if it was ok to do so) to talk to Ford Engineering (my appointment was on a weekend, and past the hours they were open). In the end, they tracked the problem to a short in the SJB, and replacing it fixed the issue.
Big difference in service between the two dealerships. One wasted a ton of my time and ignored most everything I said. And they quoted me $1000 to fix the issue without diagnosing it fully. The other dealership actually worked with me, and in the end, only charged ~$400 to do the exact same thing the first dealership wanted to blindly do.
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