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Motor Trend (ZL1 vs Boss302 Laguna Seca)

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Old 01-18-2012, 07:18 AM
  #11  
eolson
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The surprising thing about the article was that the driver said that the Boss 302 LS had great grip in the corners and could be taken to the cars limit without breaking loose, even when accelerating out of corners, so therefore the Boss302 LS with it's type and width of tire, as well as it's type of chassis and suspension design layout, and it's weight and weight proportions, is behaving to the maximum of that designs capability. He stated that fact clearly, it works great for what it is.

At 4120 lbs, the driver clearly states that the ZL1 for it's design, suspension, chassis, tires and weight can simply go into corners harder, faster, and not be effected by bumps and uneven surfaces nearly as much as the Boss. Although he said the Boss's transition with accelerating out of corners was more fluid, the fact remains that the ZL1 at 4120 lbs is still able to go into and maintain more speed and force in hard corners, and with it's HP able to accelerate out of corners to speed more rapidly, if not more fluidly.

Pabst is saying that no matter what they do to the Mustang chassis as it is currently, it can not compare to the suspension and chassis layout of the ZL1 in ride comfort or in hard lateral cornering, even though the Boss 302 LS is 480 lbs lighter than the ZL1. That is the weight of 2 very large adult men.

That is surprising and disappointing as I mentioned above, because no matter what is done as far as the lateral force issues, our Mustangs need to change and improve. I'm afraid a lot of us like the Mustang too much to forever yield to drag racing as the reason our cars can't move forward. Erik

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Old 01-18-2012, 08:08 AM
  #12  
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In the end analysis, I believe that for 2013 we will be looking at a significantly improved mustang. Ford has not been sitting on it's laurels for the last 6 years and not doing anything about the inherent problems with the mustang. 2005 represented a revolution for the mustang and Ford made big profits from it. Now sales are lagging and I believe it's because for 5 years (2010 was Camaro's return) Chevy fans had no choice and American muscle car fans had no real alternative. So 2011 comes along and the 5.0 returns. While that was great news in the HP department, it was still not a revolution for the Mustang. I consider the model coming out this year to be an incremental improvement only. But in 2013 speculation abounds regarding not only the Mustang getting IRS but a whole new chassis. Body styling really hasnt changed much either. This has been the game of Ford vs. Chevy for 100 years and guys, there's no reason to stress about it. It will always happen.

Now in regards to the article itself, this was a ridiculous comparison. So what if the ZL1 is sporting the new magnetic suspension? Does Chevy have a winner in that technology? Well yes they do. But as I understand it, they've had it in Europe for almost a decade so it's not like they invented the wheel. Will it beat the Mustang? Yes it will. So friggin what? They compared a ZL1 with 136 MORE HP and 176 more lb-ft of torque against a track ready slightly faster GT (and guys...that's REALLY what the Boss is like it or not...) Yes. It will whoop up on it. Heck, with those numbers I seriously think it should have been an even more one sided contest then it was. In June, Ford was at Nurburgring testing was reportedly the 2013 model year GT500 and it was completing in the 7:30's which is much faster than the ZL1 did it, but Ford was keeping quiet about it.

But just cool your jets. This is evolution. This is EXACTLY what Chevy and Ford want you to do. Complain about this stuff so you have an emotional, visceral reaction and say it's unfair (it is...) and Ford had better pull out all the stops to win this battle (they probably are) to beat Chevy down once and for all (never happen guys...it's car evolution.)

But until all the Chevy fan boys buy a ZL1, I'm going to take utter pleasure in smacking down all the SS's I come across and the 6 bangers that think they can take me at the light. And boys, that's going to be 99.9% of the Camaros on the road so I'm not sweating this one bit. The day I get beat in a close race by a ZL1, I'll shake that man's hand and say good job...then introduce him to my friend with a GT500 or hopefully the guy down the street with a Super Snake and he can kiss my grits while he eats my friends' dust. And I feel REALLY good because I've spent under 30k on my car while they've spent at leat 57,000. And lastly, Camaro's just suck. They are noisy pieces of crap IMO

The way I look at this is Ford is more noble in their approach. They evolve their vehicles and release them to market and let the fanfare happen organically while Chevy has to pump up their ugly vehicles with ads all over print, television, and now the Internet. Chevy's always been like the drunk dude at the party hollerin he's got the biggest weiner when in fact the suave guy at the bar (Ford) is the one with the biggest and he's going to show it to the finest lady at the party that night in his suite while Chevy goes home with the toothless bartender chick...to her single wide with tires on the roof.

Last edited by wcgman; 01-18-2012 at 08:26 AM. Reason: misspelling
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:28 AM
  #13  
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Do you really think that Ford will make those major changes for 2013. Isn't the new change for the 2015 models, being available in summer 2014??

I could only hope. No one was more excited than I when the leap to the 2005 happened. I really do love these cars. The 5.0 was fine, but really just a better engine to placate the straight liners some more. They really need to move this car into the same handling category that it's engine technology is in A+.

A lighter modern material chassis, leading technology suspension, already great engine, better breaking sophistication, modern ride comfort, and deeper wheel wells for Fu#@ing wider wheels and tires that fast high end performance cars have. Come on Ford! Do it! Do it! Do it! Erik
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:50 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by eolson View Post
Do you really think that Ford will make those major changes for 2013. Isn't the new change for the 2015 models, being available in summer 2014??

I could only hope. No one was more excited than I when the leap to the 2005 happened. I really do love these cars. The 5.0 was fine, but really just a better engine to placate the straight liners some more. They really need to move this car into the same handling category that it's engine technology is in A+.

A lighter modern material chassis, leading technology suspension, already great engine, better breaking sophistication, modern ride comfort, and deeper wheel wells for Fu#@ing wider wheels and tires that fast high end performance cars have. Come on Ford! Do it! Do it! Do it! Erik
2014 is the 50 year anniversary and they've supposedly been working on it in secret for something like 3 or 4 years. Given that every car manufacturer has to release a year early stuff (yes! buy a 2013 mustang in 2012! See how we warp space-time!) I believe we'll see this car in the show rooms in 2013 as a 50 year anniversary release for the 2014 model year. I'm not disagreeing with your observations...I totally agree. I also agree with most of your suggestions but we simply choose to infer different conclusions to the Stang vs Camaro contest which will never end.

I don't agree with the wheels cuz man...skins on these are PRICEY! lol...but I guess that's a pill I will have to swallow when the time comes because I like the looks of a wide skin. And one thing you've missed but Ford still doesnt have right is FIX that friggin nose dive! It's far better than it used to be but Im frankly sick of it!
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:08 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by wcgman View Post
2014 is the 50 year anniversary and they've supposedly been working on it in secret for something like 3 or 4 years. Given that every car manufacturer has to release a year early stuff (yes! buy a 2013 mustang in 2012! See how we warp space-time!) I believe we'll see this car in the show rooms in 2013 as a 50 year anniversary release for the 2014 model year. I'm not disagreeing with your observations...I totally agree. I also agree with most of your suggestions but we simply choose to infer different conclusions to the Stang vs Camaro contest which will never end.

I don't agree with the wheels cuz man...skins on these are PRICEY! lol...but I guess that's a pill I will have to swallow when the time comes because I like the looks of a wide skin. And one thing you've missed but Ford still doesnt have right is FIX that friggin nose dive! It's far better than it used to be but Im frankly sick of it!
I don't like bursting bubbles, but I know I've seen Ford explicitly state that they won't do their full overhaul on the 2014MY, their intention is to release the 2015 model like they did the model 50 years ago, one year early, which means it will be off the shelves in 2014, not 2013.

I could be wrong, Ford could be wrong, but I know that's what they've said about the model overhaul.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:28 PM
  #16  
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Couple things.

Ford is not behind in IRS. They did it before Cheby with the Cobra many years ago..... NOBODY WANTED IT! So Ford did away with it.

Playing catch up to Cheby? Hilarious! Mustang was first and started it all. Cheby waits to see what Ford does then comes out with something, of course with more HP. Ford tops it and Cheby tops that. So all they do is wait to see what Ford does and try to out do. What a bunch of LOSERS! Cheby Killed the Camaro, tried to match Ford with the retro look and failed miserably and made a 4,000lb car! What losers!

NA Mustang against a SC ZL1 Now MT are LOSERS! What a stupid comparison! No respect for MT now. Everyone should write in and flood them with how ridiculous their comparison was.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:54 PM
  #17  
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holy fanboyism batman!

the zl1 by looks of it to be an awesome car, will i ever own one? no, will i ever own a boss? no, but i do think the comparo was with the right cars. if i recall the boss did way better around the track then the gt500. so if the gt500 was its competition we might have fared worse.
LOOK at all the tech and money into zl1 and the magnetic ride done by chevy. that stuff was done for the vette and the v class. they just added it to the maro, and got good results.
its competition guys! that means ford will have to up their game.
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:34 PM
  #18  
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It's time to move on from the straight lining priority. There will be the 2013 models and before O' plenty for that with the live axel. Time to move on with a 2014-15 suspension and driving experience Ford. Erik
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:37 PM
  #19  
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It's simply not a level comparison, a $55,000 ZL1 vs a $45000 Boss.

Just like the below video matchup between the the $45000 Boss and the $35000 SS weren't fair either. Personally, for $55000 I'd much rather have a Corvette than a Camaro.

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Old 01-18-2012, 05:50 PM
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Well, it was supposed to be a level comparison in the corners considering the Boss 302 LS is supposed to be the "ultimate track handling" Mustang at 3640lbs with it's suspension manually set for maximum performance in the test, and the ZL1 no matter what the power and gadgets weighs 4120lbs. Erik

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