BigDinTexas

If you have an Autozone or Advance Autoparts near you, you can actually "rent" a code reader for free from them... In my experience, I paid a deposit that was refunded when I returned with the tool. Net cost was zero.

Don

wayne613

Put in lawn-mower engine, get an amish couple to hitch to horse to tow to dealership? Anything?

cleteryan

I tried jumping with same results. checked all the grounds so I am sure that is not the issue. At this point I am pretty sure it is the pcm. So I have made an appointment at the dealer for next week. I called a couple places and the cost of the part alone is $700. dealer tells me it will be an additional $250 for labor. there is only one dealer in town. In the mean time I will check with autozone about the code reader. maybe will shed a different light?

cleteryan

OK I no longer think the pcm is the problem. I bought a used one and I'm getting the same results. So proceeding through pinpoint B test. But I am having trouble figuring out where circuit B+ is in the pcm relay harness side to test for voltage.

wayne613

Was this used PCM programmed for the key used? Hopefully you did 2+...

Might not have been the PCM still, but you can't just swap it out, plug it in and go. Should it come from a similar model you might be good after a set (2 or more should be done) of keys are set for it, but it's not gunna do jack til then.

PATS ****-blocking FTL. As it was used, it likely already had 2 keys or more programmed from the vehicle it was yanked from, but not the one(s) you were trying to use. Don't suppose you got the keys from that car eh?
The above was in the link previously given to the other similar thread. I take it you did not view?

cleteryan

Previously I didn't think it was a pats key problem because the anti-theft indicator turns off after 3 seconds and does not continue to flash or glow. But since I am getting the exact same results with the replacement pcm maybe it is a pats problem?

wayne613

Unsure, but has this replacement PCM been programmed with a key you used? If it hasn't, and it doesn't flash, glow or the like when you try to start, then it's likely since the used one isn't going to let you start this car without this done.

cleteryan

I went and got an actron scanner. I attach the scanner and it comes back with connection error. So it is not able to read the codes. in the scanner trouble shooting guide besides the obvious check pins, battery power etc., the two possible problems that seem relevant are, 1. check pcm ground and 2. make sure pcm is not faulty. I thought I checked the grounds, but can you help me find specifically where the pcm ground circuit is located and which pin in the harness to test? To test the pcm I am having trouble finding the b+ and ign/start positions in the harness. Thanks for all your help so far.

wayne613

What you're after here, page 5(we have the 170 pin PCM), various definitions are available on the last pages:
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=7&viewfile=...20Hardware.pdf

The "B+" designation used in many schematics, even recent ones, even though it really no longer applies to it's original definition from the vacuum tube days. Usually indicating higher than the normal voltage used by the circuits in it's case; sometimes current.

In this case it's referring to the battery line in that should be close to the same voltage as the battery, around 12.something, also referred to as "VPWR". For this diagnostic purpose, greater than 10 volts.
"VREF" is the internally used (and regulated) 5 volts by the PCM in this case.

Try using the pins for ground, then just try the negative lead from the multi-meter on the battery negative(grounded) terminal. If you don't get a reading from one of the 2 "VPWR" pins using the PCM's ground, but do from using the battery terminal's negative/ground, you have your answer. Your ground is still FUBAR.
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=40&viewfile...on%20Views.pdf (Page 2, G102 & G103) These are secured by 7 or 8mm bolts shown in that diagram, which I pointed out earlier. Off by the plastic radiator cover, a few inches away.

Those (G102 and G103) are the 2 used by the PCM. http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=40&viewfile=Grounds.pdf

BigDinTexas

All I have to say is I wish we have a Rep system... even though my car aint having problems, Wayne613 would be getting them from me right now for his effort to help this poor guy.

Thanks for being an active member here wayne!

Don