wcgman

I know some of the owners are planning on hitting up the test and tune at Bandi this Wednesday night. I can't make it because Im in class.

Norm Peterson

Not sure about that. All the dyno plots I've ever seen are WOT plots, which won't show what happens during the transition from light throttle to moderate throttle. At the OE level, there probably is a standard approach to quantifying this, which kind of comes back to there being some common personnel for Ford's production and FRPP efforts.

I know that some of the aftermarket tunes exaggerate the rate of throttle opening, which could be felt by some as "nonlinear behavior" that starts out strong and then goes a tiny bit "soft" under some conditions.


I've never thought that the HP and torque numbers for the 2008 FRPP tune (which I've had since first getting the car) and the Bullitt production agreed by mere coincidence, more likely the FRPP = Bullitt minus the rev limit change and probably a couple other things. Might be something similar going on now.


Norm

BigDinTexas

Thanks for the thread Mudflap... I just got off the phone with AM and ordered the FRPP tuner (P/N M-9603-MGTB) and can't wait to get it loaded... I share many of your attributes (non-drag racer, daily driver, etc.) and was glad to hear your impressions.

I already have the Roush Intake and glad to hear you have it too.

Don

FYI, I had them pricematch a competitor and it was a no brainer for me to do this. Yay, Price Matching policy!

SteedaBrandon

Sorry to hear that we didn't get back to you on that. If you could shoot me a PM with some more info I'd be glad to look into this for you.

We're always looking to improve our customer service experience.

Mudflap

As others have said, and as I said up front, this is all my perspective. I've had 4 Mustangs, and numerous other modified performance cars. As such, I'm pretty sensitive changes in driving character, feel, and performance. My opinion is nothing but that though, so if you don't like what I have to say or don't agree with it, its no problem for me. Just carry on.

For me personally, whether a tune makes an additional 10+ rwhp over another is irrelevant to me if the supposed "weaker" tune just plain drives better. If I were willing to sacrifice overall drivability for performance between 5000-7000 rpm to reduce an ET by .1 or something, then perhaps I'd have a different take. I remember Chris Rose from AM reporting that the FRPP tune LOST power on one of their test cars. The thread is around somewhere. Whether it did or didn't in my car is irrelevant though. The car drives way better than it did with the custom tunes. It is way more "beastly" for one reason or another. I have also seen dyno sheets that showed an improvement, so it just goes to show, nothing is equal in all scenarios.

For my tastes, the car simply didn't feel improved in any major way with either the Steeda or Bama tunes and the Steeda or C&L intakes. I know that plopping it on a dyno would probably show that peak HP was more than it has now with the FRPP tune, but I didn't feel it, and drive-ability suffered in my personal opinion.

The one thing I learned a long time when modding cars, is that mods don't always improve the car, even if they improved a dyno sheet. Dyno numbers are only part of the equation. The most blatant example of this was my 2003 WRX that I had upgraded the turbo on, replaced the downpipe, uppipe and entire exhaust, etc. Sure, the car would break all 4 wheels loose... at 30 mph though when the turbo fully spooled and punched you in the face. While impressive, the off-the-line performance was completely lost in essence. The car would rarely lose a race, but it never won off the line. I'd pass them like a freight train a few seconds later, lol. On the canyon roads, I had to leave it in 2nd gear mostly to keep the revs up so that the turbo was available. For my tastes, while power was way up, that was a degradation in performance. It was rare that I drove the car in a way that took advantage of the mods. It sure did look good on the dyno though. When I eventually reverted the car back to stock with nothing but a Cobb Tuning "stage 1" ECU reflash/remap, the thing was sooo much more fun to drive. It was toss-able and very responsive off the line and in the twisties, and still respectably fast. And that was after taking several thousand dollars worth of parts off. Live and learn...

Mudflap

Thanks for the offer, but I sold the Steeda intake a while ago and I'll be sticking with my current setup. I'm not going to mess with perfection again.

Mudflap

I have found that the CO car scene just sucks. There are very few performance shops around, the dealers are oblivious and afraid of any "mods", and don't see that much of a community. You might try joining a Mustang club? The Denver Mustang Club meets for "Cars & Coffee" at the Great Indoors parking lot near Park Meadows Mall each Saturday @ 9am apparently. That crap is too early for me, lol. I work from home, so I don't wake up before 8am on weekdays, let alone a Saturday.

The Golden Super Cruise is worth checking out if you haven't. There are 2 more this year: http://www.goldensupercruise.com/

shoeys08dkcandygt

I'm thinking about doing the same mudflap. Just going all the way back to stock. I hate the way the car drives and has less low end torque than stock. Yes top end is fun but for a daily driver it sucks gas down real quick when I'm always staying above 4k rpms just to feel the power. Been debating this for a few months now. Even tried different tunes just like u have. Steeda and now doug at c&l. I'm still debating this though. We'll see what I end up doing.

MoshpitMad

Being in the Springs makes it a little tougher, but I have been to the Cars n Coffees up there. I'll make it up there again soon. Being military, my days usually start around 5am, so 7am wake ups on the weekend is sleeping in for me. LOL.

I appreciate your "clarification" even though it wasn't warranted. I totally get what you meant the first time now, after the 2nd analogy. I guess I wasn't completely comprehending what I was reading during my first cup of coffee at 4am.

Mudflap

If you do this, please report back. I had the same experience, I was just... unhappy with the way the car drove in general. It seemed like it lost too much low end, and how often am I driving at 6000 rpm? lol I was happy at first, but looking back it was because there WAS a change. It took me a while, and going back to stock to understand that it was different, but not better.

I went back to the stock paper filter and everything. I drove the car around and was sort of surprised at just how well it drove. Then I felt "dumb" for having spent so much money and really getting nothing in return that was of value to me. Next I was a little pissed, lol. My experience was that I liked stock better than the custom tunes and intakes, and then the Ford Racing performance calibration was a good step forward from stock, while not losing the stock driving characteristics. The Roush intake and stock airbox seem to be a bit of a wash, however I do believe the throttle response was improved even more with the Roush intake, and the sound is cool. For $200~ that thing isn't a bad deal if you simply must tinker like me.

I know that it isn't often people post stuff like this, as you want to believe that mods=better, and that your money was well spent. Having been on this board for a while now though, I always try and be honest. If I make a dumb mod, I'll admit it, etc. I have seen ramblings of this same sentiment on multiple boards though, and now there are 2 of us in here already. If I had any advice to give the aftermarket tuners, it would be to take a close look at that FRPP tune if possible and try to figure out what makes it SO drive-able. Perhaps focus on a tune variation that is all about feel and response, and less about peak #s... I feel like the tunes I ran were trying to just wring out the most power in various parts of the power band without blowing the thing up, while at the same time messing with throttle position and response noticeably, but not necessarily improving it. This has all been a bit of a surprise, as my experience with the 4.6L was that the tunes/intake made drastic improvements, especially on the automatics.

I think what we have here is a case of Ford doing a good job with the factory setup, and probably not leaving all THAT much on the table without getting into extensive modifications. They have been very good at watching the aftermarket and responding to what we want. Take a look at the 2013, that thing is a case study in Ford watching the forums.