Question on ignition timing
03-10-2007, 12:58 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 6" from the sun.
Posts: 313
RE: Question on ignition timing
The manual says NOT to run anything other than 87 octane, but this is rediculous!
ive been running 91 here in AZ for the last 6 months!
03-11-2007, 06:23 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
RE: Question on ignition timing
ORIGINAL: goldenglory18
can anyone confirm that running anything else besides 87 WITHOUT A TUNE is harmful to the system?
ive been running 91 here in AZ for the last 6 months!
The manual says NOT to run anything other than 87 octane, but this is rediculous!
ive been running 91 here in AZ for the last 6 months!
03-12-2007, 12:05 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Green Mt State
Posts: 1,028
RE: Question on ignition timing
Hey guys,
Visited the dealer again on Saturday.
We went for a test drive and the new mechanic pulled the intake ducting off and cleaned out the throttle body (?)
[IMG]local://upfiles/62156/6280E2812F304A04B6F59F002143AE89.jpg[/IMG]
He said the PCV was "gummed" up as well and suggested they start using a better grade of oil in my pony.
He put the tuner on the computer andsaid the MAF was out of spec. Should be 1.x to 2.x volts, but it was 3.2 volts.
[IMG]local://upfiles/62156/BBA4F69252DF452890B6764A4916FD08.jpg[/IMG]
Anybody have any trouble with MAF sensors?
If it is not covered under warranty, are there any aftermarket ones for improved performance / mileage?
Seems to run a little better after cleaning...
[IMG]local://upfiles/62156/F6A7AF86D277457DBA51AD8E140413AE.jpg[/IMG]
What do ya think Wolfey?
Thanks
SOHC
Visited the dealer again on Saturday.
We went for a test drive and the new mechanic pulled the intake ducting off and cleaned out the throttle body (?)
[IMG]local://upfiles/62156/6280E2812F304A04B6F59F002143AE89.jpg[/IMG]
He said the PCV was "gummed" up as well and suggested they start using a better grade of oil in my pony.
He put the tuner on the computer andsaid the MAF was out of spec. Should be 1.x to 2.x volts, but it was 3.2 volts.
[IMG]local://upfiles/62156/BBA4F69252DF452890B6764A4916FD08.jpg[/IMG]
Anybody have any trouble with MAF sensors?
If it is not covered under warranty, are there any aftermarket ones for improved performance / mileage?
Seems to run a little better after cleaning...
[IMG]local://upfiles/62156/F6A7AF86D277457DBA51AD8E140413AE.jpg[/IMG]
What do ya think Wolfey?
Thanks
SOHC
03-12-2007, 02:01 PM
#14
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: State Of Confusion
Posts: 1,199
RE: Question on ignition timing
Wait, they found the MAF sensor bad and didn't replace it under warranty?
Did the mech' just clean it?
Did the pinging issue go away?
I hate the fact that Ford allows so much oil mist to get up and through the PCV valve!
Had to take my truck's 3.8 intake off once and talk about a coated gooey mess! Geesh!
I don't like the idea of so much oil mist collecting inside my intake manifold much less the runners and I just get nightmares thinking about the caked build up on the back of the valves over time.
What are they thinking?
There should be an oil catch gizmo in between the PCV and intake IMO. Heck I might make one and put it in there myself. end/rant
Okay, well I am not sure why at 37K miles they didn't do everything needed under warranty.
My drive train is covered up through 100K miles on my 07. That means FREE repairs until I pass 100K.
There are aftermarket MAF's for sale I am sure but I don't know who has them as I haven't the need to look yet. Sorry.
Anyway, did your pinging issue go away?
Wolfey2k
Did the mech' just clean it?
Did the pinging issue go away?
I hate the fact that Ford allows so much oil mist to get up and through the PCV valve!
Had to take my truck's 3.8 intake off once and talk about a coated gooey mess! Geesh!
I don't like the idea of so much oil mist collecting inside my intake manifold much less the runners and I just get nightmares thinking about the caked build up on the back of the valves over time.
What are they thinking?
There should be an oil catch gizmo in between the PCV and intake IMO. Heck I might make one and put it in there myself. end/rant
Okay, well I am not sure why at 37K miles they didn't do everything needed under warranty.
My drive train is covered up through 100K miles on my 07. That means FREE repairs until I pass 100K.
There are aftermarket MAF's for sale I am sure but I don't know who has them as I haven't the need to look yet. Sorry.
Anyway, did your pinging issue go away?
Wolfey2k
03-12-2007, 02:54 PM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Green Mt State
Posts: 1,028
RE: Question on ignition timing
Nope, ping is still there.
Just moved up to 90-95 instead of 85-90MPH.
Seems to run smoother.
Yes, he just cleaned it and the PCV.
Where exactly is the oil coming from? I didn't see it until everything was clean and shiny again.
If I need to clean it out regularly, I think I could handle that.
The MAF however should be covered (dealer was "checking") I have the TOTALCARE coverage, and it seems everything is covered.
The saga continues.
Oh and people, if you have any problems with your car while under warranty that the dealer CAN'T find, make sure it shows up on one of your work orders! That way it is documented that you had a complaint (regardless of outcome). Noticed my "pinging" problem, since day one did not show up on my earliest work orders... Cover your butts folks!
My "new" mechanic seems to know more about cars and aftermarket parts. My salesman (who also owns a V6) and I picked his brain about parts, exhaust (he suggests a crossover) andno CAI system that can suck water in from outside as it damages/clogs the filter (or road spray from the car in front of you as you tailgate).
SOHC
Just moved up to 90-95 instead of 85-90MPH.
Seems to run smoother.
Yes, he just cleaned it and the PCV.
Where exactly is the oil coming from? I didn't see it until everything was clean and shiny again.
If I need to clean it out regularly, I think I could handle that.
The MAF however should be covered (dealer was "checking") I have the TOTALCARE coverage, and it seems everything is covered.
The saga continues.
Oh and people, if you have any problems with your car while under warranty that the dealer CAN'T find, make sure it shows up on one of your work orders! That way it is documented that you had a complaint (regardless of outcome). Noticed my "pinging" problem, since day one did not show up on my earliest work orders... Cover your butts folks!
My "new" mechanic seems to know more about cars and aftermarket parts. My salesman (who also owns a V6) and I picked his brain about parts, exhaust (he suggests a crossover) andno CAI system that can suck water in from outside as it damages/clogs the filter (or road spray from the car in front of you as you tailgate).
SOHC
03-12-2007, 03:13 PM
#16
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: State Of Confusion
Posts: 1,199
RE: Question on ignition timing
You need to get the dealer to replace the MAF under warranty and force them to address and completely handle the pinging issue. Pinging is the arch enemy of piston engines and damage IS being done as you drive!
The oil buildup comes from oil mist from under the valve cover where the PCV valve is located. There are supposed to be baffles in there to help prevent this but they usually end up inneffective to the degree they still allow mist to be sucked into the engine via the intake. I can't believe how much buildup there already is in my intake plenum. I know this because I added a TB spacer when I installed my new C and L CAI system.
As for the water mist issue with CAI systems. This is not a problem. Some water mist is good for the engine inducement and octane wise. Ever notice how much better an engine runs when the humidity is real high or during and right after a rain storm? Water won't hurt your engine unless it's sucked in by the gallon. So don't let that worry you. Anyone says otherwise is paranoid or doesn't know wtf they are talking about IMO.
That sucks you haven't gotten a resolution to your pinging issue. It should have been completely addressed and corrected before your car left the shop. No opinions, no half arsed BS reasons for it continuing should have been accepted. Did they reset your ECU?
What I would suggest doing at this point is, reset the ECU yourself.
Disconnect the battery for 15 minutes, then re-connect and fire her up.
That will completely reset the ECU and give the adapative a chance to adjust things up to original spec' per it's programming. Perhaps your pinging issue will dissapear. I think there is a good chance that it will if all sensors are working correctly.
Another thing to put your ear to is to see if only one or a couple or a few cylinders or all the cylinders are pinging at the same time. If so then it's a timing / a/f mix issue. The symptom you discribe now leads me to believe there is too much advance timing at highway speeds. Again, resetting the ECU may handle this and it will go away.
After you reset it, give the car at least 5 cold start cycles to tweak itself back up. You should however notice a difference on the first drive. If that MAF sensor is off by as much as half a volt, I'd demand it be replaced,,for free now, not later. I don't get how the mech' can say, duh oh it might be covered under warranty then not find out right away and replace the darn thing before you picked it up.
The mech's job is not to throw in the towel and say "duh on, well it's just the nature of the beast and your problem may be covered under warranty" then leave you in the dark on the whole friggin issue. Geesh! Is the guy snorting carb cleaner? Cars go in to be repaired, not have their problems or symptoms perpetuated and messaged with BS beurocraticexcuses!
Car goes in to have X issue resloved, car's issue comes out with x issue RESOLVED,,,,period! or they suck! IMHO of course ;-)
The oil buildup comes from oil mist from under the valve cover where the PCV valve is located. There are supposed to be baffles in there to help prevent this but they usually end up inneffective to the degree they still allow mist to be sucked into the engine via the intake. I can't believe how much buildup there already is in my intake plenum. I know this because I added a TB spacer when I installed my new C and L CAI system.
As for the water mist issue with CAI systems. This is not a problem. Some water mist is good for the engine inducement and octane wise. Ever notice how much better an engine runs when the humidity is real high or during and right after a rain storm? Water won't hurt your engine unless it's sucked in by the gallon. So don't let that worry you. Anyone says otherwise is paranoid or doesn't know wtf they are talking about IMO.
That sucks you haven't gotten a resolution to your pinging issue. It should have been completely addressed and corrected before your car left the shop. No opinions, no half arsed BS reasons for it continuing should have been accepted. Did they reset your ECU?
What I would suggest doing at this point is, reset the ECU yourself.
Disconnect the battery for 15 minutes, then re-connect and fire her up.
That will completely reset the ECU and give the adapative a chance to adjust things up to original spec' per it's programming. Perhaps your pinging issue will dissapear. I think there is a good chance that it will if all sensors are working correctly.
Another thing to put your ear to is to see if only one or a couple or a few cylinders or all the cylinders are pinging at the same time. If so then it's a timing / a/f mix issue. The symptom you discribe now leads me to believe there is too much advance timing at highway speeds. Again, resetting the ECU may handle this and it will go away.
After you reset it, give the car at least 5 cold start cycles to tweak itself back up. You should however notice a difference on the first drive. If that MAF sensor is off by as much as half a volt, I'd demand it be replaced,,for free now, not later. I don't get how the mech' can say, duh oh it might be covered under warranty then not find out right away and replace the darn thing before you picked it up.
The mech's job is not to throw in the towel and say "duh on, well it's just the nature of the beast and your problem may be covered under warranty" then leave you in the dark on the whole friggin issue. Geesh! Is the guy snorting carb cleaner? Cars go in to be repaired, not have their problems or symptoms perpetuated and messaged with BS beurocraticexcuses!
Car goes in to have X issue resloved, car's issue comes out with x issue RESOLVED,,,,period! or they suck! IMHO of course ;-)
03-12-2007, 06:52 PM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Green Mt State
Posts: 1,028
RE: Question on ignition timing
"Clunk" (waiting on TSB) [:@]Sorry, couldn't resist.
I know, haven't heard from him yet. Emailed him, nothing. I'll call when I leave work.
Very aggravating.
Don't know if I wanna reflash right now, don't know if he tweaked anything else while he was toying with the computer.
Looks like my rev limiter is not on anymore as it should not have hit 115 (I still had plenty of pedal) usually caps it at 111.
I may still try to find some taller gears for highway driving.
If I can get 2.75 like my old Cougar I can turn 85 at under 2200RPM.
That would save 3-5 MPG easy.
The V6 is torquey enough... I can alway change the gears back after the experiment if it really doesn't run right. Or go to 17" rims with no reprogramming.
Maybe someday after all the other stuff is done.
SOHC
I know, haven't heard from him yet. Emailed him, nothing. I'll call when I leave work.
Very aggravating.
Don't know if I wanna reflash right now, don't know if he tweaked anything else while he was toying with the computer.
Looks like my rev limiter is not on anymore as it should not have hit 115 (I still had plenty of pedal) usually caps it at 111.
I may still try to find some taller gears for highway driving.
If I can get 2.75 like my old Cougar I can turn 85 at under 2200RPM.
That would save 3-5 MPG easy.
The V6 is torquey enough... I can alway change the gears back after the experiment if it really doesn't run right. Or go to 17" rims with no reprogramming.
Maybe someday after all the other stuff is done.
SOHC
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