Running lean,Question
08-24-2009, 09:32 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Posts: 371
Running lean,Question
I've had the X-Charger on my Mustang all year, no problems. The tune I got was from Bama, and I gave a detailed list of all the items I'd have installed so he could write the tune accordingly. Because at the time of X-Charger install I'd have an H-pipe dual exhaust & 8.8" rear end w/ 3:73 gears & 4" aluminum driveshaft. Also planned to have BBK shorty headers but I kept postponing that install. Did the X install, tuned it, started up and has ran fine since w/out them.
So it's been good. Last night I finally installed them. I still can't believe how sad it is that installing a supercharger, including all the electrical work, is easier than simply swapping headers, but no matter. Started the car up, it started fine. After about 30 seconds the idle went low, below 1000rpms and sounded rough.
Backed it out of the shop and let it idle for a while, if I stepped on the gas it'd stay at high idle like 2000-2500rpms. But in a minute or two it'd get back down to the point where it'd just stall. CEL finally came on. Didn't have much of a choice I was 25min. away from home at the shop so had to drive it home. It ran fine, I didn't hear sputtering or clunking or any bad noises.
Got to plug in the Xcal2 and the OBD codes are P2195 and P2197. Those codes mean both O2 sensors are reading a lean mixture, one for each Cat. I don't blame/hate Bama for this after all it's Headers, this is what they are known for. So I need to take it to a Dyno and get it re-tuned to accommodate.
Problem - Closest reputable tuner I'd trust with this machine is 4 hours away, Tillman Speed in Aston, PA (I'm in Ithaca, NY). It's one thing to drive it lean a couple dozen miles. But this is 250 miles away.
Would it be a safe trip to drive the Mustang that far a distance, or would that potentially do major internal damage?
OH also, almost forgot to mention, due to the BBK headers the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) tube attachment location was over an inch off from where it was supposed to be compared to the factory headers. I'm not sure how they were so severely off, but I took the acetylene torch to the EGR tube and did gradual bending on either end to shorten it, but keep it aligned to where they needed to thread on. One of the curves had a slight more bend than I wanted, it's not fully kinked though. I'd say 1/2 way compared to a full cylinder. I'll see if I can get a picture of it tomorrow. I don't think this should be a factor, but I don't know maybe the slight pinch in the tube is affecting the amount of exhaust being put back in and making the idle worse.
So it's been good. Last night I finally installed them. I still can't believe how sad it is that installing a supercharger, including all the electrical work, is easier than simply swapping headers, but no matter. Started the car up, it started fine. After about 30 seconds the idle went low, below 1000rpms and sounded rough.
Backed it out of the shop and let it idle for a while, if I stepped on the gas it'd stay at high idle like 2000-2500rpms. But in a minute or two it'd get back down to the point where it'd just stall. CEL finally came on. Didn't have much of a choice I was 25min. away from home at the shop so had to drive it home. It ran fine, I didn't hear sputtering or clunking or any bad noises.
Got to plug in the Xcal2 and the OBD codes are P2195 and P2197. Those codes mean both O2 sensors are reading a lean mixture, one for each Cat. I don't blame/hate Bama for this after all it's Headers, this is what they are known for. So I need to take it to a Dyno and get it re-tuned to accommodate.
Problem - Closest reputable tuner I'd trust with this machine is 4 hours away, Tillman Speed in Aston, PA (I'm in Ithaca, NY). It's one thing to drive it lean a couple dozen miles. But this is 250 miles away.
Would it be a safe trip to drive the Mustang that far a distance, or would that potentially do major internal damage?
OH also, almost forgot to mention, due to the BBK headers the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) tube attachment location was over an inch off from where it was supposed to be compared to the factory headers. I'm not sure how they were so severely off, but I took the acetylene torch to the EGR tube and did gradual bending on either end to shorten it, but keep it aligned to where they needed to thread on. One of the curves had a slight more bend than I wanted, it's not fully kinked though. I'd say 1/2 way compared to a full cylinder. I'll see if I can get a picture of it tomorrow. I don't think this should be a factor, but I don't know maybe the slight pinch in the tube is affecting the amount of exhaust being put back in and making the idle worse.
08-24-2009, 10:15 PM
#3
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 6,130
i doubt its the shorty headers. i have bbk LT's and o/r x pipe with a whipple and it leaned out to 12.1 a/f, not enough to throw a CEL, but regular non-WOT driving it would run fine, even WOT runs it would run fine just a little lean on the a/f. i got another tune which got it down to 11.7. dynotune would be your best bet. but if you're getting those codes with regular driving you might ask Tillman if they can send you a base tune to get you to their shop.
08-25-2009, 02:56 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Posts: 371
Considering I have driven all summer w/out issue, and as soon as BBK headers are installed I get this happening... I am not going to doubt it is because of the Headers.
As for the air/fuel ratio I have downloaded SCT's Live Link IV but it doesn't seem to want to work. Brought the laptop to the car and plugged it all in, just not working. Need to figure out why.
And currently no Wideband gauge setup, but that's looking to be what I'm going to get. Checking out Autometer and what they have available. Just need to verify if installing a wideband gauge with a dual exhaust will require 2 units or if it can be done with one. They're damn expensive. Plus I'll be installing a boost/vac gauge figure if I'm installing gauges might as well get all the ones that I need.
Found systems that can accommodate multiple sensors, but they are the large brick units. Still looking to see if I can find one that will allow 2 sensors to feed into a single gauge pod, preferably Autometer Cobalt series.
As for the air/fuel ratio I have downloaded SCT's Live Link IV but it doesn't seem to want to work. Brought the laptop to the car and plugged it all in, just not working. Need to figure out why.
And currently no Wideband gauge setup, but that's looking to be what I'm going to get. Checking out Autometer and what they have available. Just need to verify if installing a wideband gauge with a dual exhaust will require 2 units or if it can be done with one. They're damn expensive. Plus I'll be installing a boost/vac gauge figure if I'm installing gauges might as well get all the ones that I need.
Found systems that can accommodate multiple sensors, but they are the large brick units. Still looking to see if I can find one that will allow 2 sensors to feed into a single gauge pod, preferably Autometer Cobalt series.
Last edited by Meph; 08-25-2009 at 03:37 PM.
08-25-2009, 05:55 PM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 6,130
you can use just 1 a/f with dual exhaust. 2 are better but most people use just 1, thats what i use.
it could be a vacuum leak, check all the hoses around the pcv system and the intake to make sure no unmetered air is getting in. could also be bad O2 sensors. might also try cleaning out the throttle body, once mine was getting stuck open and was getting lean a/f on deccel, i cleaned out the TB and that fixed it.
it could be a vacuum leak, check all the hoses around the pcv system and the intake to make sure no unmetered air is getting in. could also be bad O2 sensors. might also try cleaning out the throttle body, once mine was getting stuck open and was getting lean a/f on deccel, i cleaned out the TB and that fixed it.
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