supppercharged.
04-04-2006, 02:12 AM
#1
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,464
supppercharged.
i drive my stang daily. i need more speed. im going to s/c. im going to have to run low boost because i dont feel like spending another 2 grand to do whatever to my bottom end.
should i spend the 6000 and get a kb 1.7, no its not the 2.2 but still.. its a kenne.
or stay cheaper and save money and go with a vortech for like 3800. which vortech?
if you can give me some feed back let me know why.. b/c i want to s/c but i dont want to waste my money.
should i spend the 6000 and get a kb 1.7, no its not the 2.2 but still.. its a kenne.
or stay cheaper and save money and go with a vortech for like 3800. which vortech?
if you can give me some feed back let me know why.. b/c i want to s/c but i dont want to waste my money.
04-04-2006, 10:46 AM
#3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 26
RE: supppercharged.
What are really wanting to do? If you want the red-light to red-light low end seat of the pants pulling power, go KB. If you want the power to come on a little later, go centrifugal. However, you can go centrifugal and change the rear gearing to get the rpms up faster to "enhance" the response.
Both "cooled" kits can get up to the 400 RWHP mark if tuned and fed properly. After that, you really should consider upgrading the crank, rods, and pistons. The entire rotating assembly with manley H-beam rods, Kellog steel crank and forged pistons w/coated skirts & floating pins runs around $1400 for the stock cid. The Stroker 4.6 to 5.0 is around $2000. Either will keep the bottom end together past 700 HP......., but the top end will be the limiting factor before you get to that point.
Good luck, and I will let you know when I get the KB.
The KB is:
$4899 for the 1.7 with intercooler, boost-a-pump, and "chip"
$3788 for the 1.7 without intercooler. Includes boost-a-pump and "chip"
(Both kits also come with 36# injectors and a 160 deg. thermostat, and no drilling the oil pan like the Vortech)
The Vortech V-2 SQ S-Trim is:
$4872 with "Aftercooler" and custom tune (requires battery relocation due to space requirements.)
$3499 non-aftercooled. Custom tuned.
(Both kits require tapping into the oil pan for oil/lubrication)
[IMG]local://upfiles/33207/4804E69545014FC686CCBD4D350F23D6.jpg[/IMG]
Both "cooled" kits can get up to the 400 RWHP mark if tuned and fed properly. After that, you really should consider upgrading the crank, rods, and pistons. The entire rotating assembly with manley H-beam rods, Kellog steel crank and forged pistons w/coated skirts & floating pins runs around $1400 for the stock cid. The Stroker 4.6 to 5.0 is around $2000. Either will keep the bottom end together past 700 HP......., but the top end will be the limiting factor before you get to that point.
Good luck, and I will let you know when I get the KB.
The KB is:
$4899 for the 1.7 with intercooler, boost-a-pump, and "chip"
$3788 for the 1.7 without intercooler. Includes boost-a-pump and "chip"
(Both kits also come with 36# injectors and a 160 deg. thermostat, and no drilling the oil pan like the Vortech)
The Vortech V-2 SQ S-Trim is:
$4872 with "Aftercooler" and custom tune (requires battery relocation due to space requirements.)
$3499 non-aftercooled. Custom tuned.
(Both kits require tapping into the oil pan for oil/lubrication)
[IMG]local://upfiles/33207/4804E69545014FC686CCBD4D350F23D6.jpg[/IMG]
04-04-2006, 11:45 AM
#4
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: supppercharged.
ORIGINAL: BamBam
What are really wanting to do? If you want the red-light to red-light low end seat of the pants pulling power, go KB. If you want the power to come on a little later, go centrifugal. However, you can go centrifugal and change the rear gearing to get the rpms up faster to "enhance" the response.
Both "cooled" kits can get up to the 400 RWHP mark if tuned and fed properly. After that, you really should consider upgrading the crank, rods, and pistons. The entire rotating assembly with manley H-beam rods, Kellog steel crank and forged pistons w/coated skirts & floating pins runs around $1400 for the stock cid. The Stroker 4.6 to 5.0 is around $2000. Either will keep the bottom end together past 700 HP......., but the top end will be the limiting factor before you get to that point.
Good luck, and I will let you know when I get the KB.
The KB is:
$4899 for the 1.7 with intercooler, boost-a-pump, and "chip"
$3788 for the 1.7 without intercooler. Includes boost-a-pump and "chip"
(Both kits also come with 36# injectors and a 160 deg. thermostat, and no drilling the oil pan like the Vortech)
The Vortech V-2 SQ S-Trim is:
$4872 with "Aftercooler" and custom tune (requires battery relocation due to space requirements.)
$3499 non-aftercooled. Custom tuned.
(Both kits require tapping into the oil pan for oil/lubrication)
[IMG]local://upfiles/33207/4804E69545014FC686CCBD4D350F23D6.jpg[/IMG]
What are really wanting to do? If you want the red-light to red-light low end seat of the pants pulling power, go KB. If you want the power to come on a little later, go centrifugal. However, you can go centrifugal and change the rear gearing to get the rpms up faster to "enhance" the response.
Both "cooled" kits can get up to the 400 RWHP mark if tuned and fed properly. After that, you really should consider upgrading the crank, rods, and pistons. The entire rotating assembly with manley H-beam rods, Kellog steel crank and forged pistons w/coated skirts & floating pins runs around $1400 for the stock cid. The Stroker 4.6 to 5.0 is around $2000. Either will keep the bottom end together past 700 HP......., but the top end will be the limiting factor before you get to that point.
Good luck, and I will let you know when I get the KB.
The KB is:
$4899 for the 1.7 with intercooler, boost-a-pump, and "chip"
$3788 for the 1.7 without intercooler. Includes boost-a-pump and "chip"
(Both kits also come with 36# injectors and a 160 deg. thermostat, and no drilling the oil pan like the Vortech)
The Vortech V-2 SQ S-Trim is:
$4872 with "Aftercooler" and custom tune (requires battery relocation due to space requirements.)
$3499 non-aftercooled. Custom tuned.
(Both kits require tapping into the oil pan for oil/lubrication)
[IMG]local://upfiles/33207/4804E69545014FC686CCBD4D350F23D6.jpg[/IMG]
The KBs, espcially the 1.7Ls, get EATEN by vortech cars. I have never seen a 1.7L car with comparable mods to mine run or dyno like mine did. I have also never seen a stock shortblock KB car run anything close to a 11.90 on street tires.
Also, my kit is NON intercooled. There is a intercooled guy on here with stock motor making 440 RWHP, hell I don't think he even has camshafts.
The KB kits are a waste of money on a 2v IMO. Why spend all of that extra cash for a slower less streetable car??? if you really have that much cash and want to spend it all get a set of blower cams with your vortech install and really make some power. The non intercooled vortech kit with blower cams should make 430~ rwhp easy on a dynojet with the stock bottom end, no intercooler.
Edit: Also, your engine will not survive 700 RWHP with just a bottom end swap. you will need a new block as well, the blocks seem to give up around 550~ rwhp. Several companys are selling stronger blocks now to give you the option of making more. You would of course need ported heads and blower cams at that point, but you already alluded to that.
04-04-2006, 12:33 PM
#5
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 26
RE: supppercharged.
Where is the street video?
The **** you refer to is a matter of personal preference. Performanceand cost are relatively close depending on the actual comparison (independant test vs. a biased test). Gearing the car for optimizing the centrifugal or if you can get the power to the ground in the twin screw will both provise a huge power/fun factor gain. The $ difference is marginal as per pricing I used from KB and another retailer for the Vortech (the KB Boost-A-Pump is about $300 that can be eliminated from the kit if its a $ issue). As for the 700HP, the comment was made in response to the $ of the lower end upgrade cost. I will research the block limitations today. I am interested in the limits of the stock CI and Alum blocks vs. the aftermarket and factory "upgrades" cost vs. HP limit comparison. But we are now on a tangent.
Note: If I read your mods correctly, you have 3.73 gears (that falls into the "enhanced" response category.) When you did the 11.90, did you have the cams, gearing and custom tune, or was the run made with the supercharger install only, using the factory or Vortech tuning? I have not heard of any driveability issues with either S/C. Under normal driving conditions, both types should not be a problem. What have you heard/seen/experienced to the contrary?
I do have to admit that when someone disagrees with a response, the emotions are clearly evident.
I will have to make it a point to Dyno before and after my SC install and make a pre and post 1/4 mile run to see the difference.
To disagree without being disagreeable can be more productive than just being disagreeable. I am not selling anything, promoting anything, nor did I recommend either. I gave facts as they are documented, and my personal preference for my install. I like the look, feel and performance that I have experienced. And like I stated earlier, the $ is comparable for the "cooled" kits.
On a different note, why the Vortech over the Procharger or any of the other centrifugal units? The ProCharger kit with the 3 core cooler is actually the least expensive kit I have seen.
The **** you refer to is a matter of personal preference. Performanceand cost are relatively close depending on the actual comparison (independant test vs. a biased test). Gearing the car for optimizing the centrifugal or if you can get the power to the ground in the twin screw will both provise a huge power/fun factor gain. The $ difference is marginal as per pricing I used from KB and another retailer for the Vortech (the KB Boost-A-Pump is about $300 that can be eliminated from the kit if its a $ issue). As for the 700HP, the comment was made in response to the $ of the lower end upgrade cost. I will research the block limitations today. I am interested in the limits of the stock CI and Alum blocks vs. the aftermarket and factory "upgrades" cost vs. HP limit comparison. But we are now on a tangent.
Note: If I read your mods correctly, you have 3.73 gears (that falls into the "enhanced" response category.) When you did the 11.90, did you have the cams, gearing and custom tune, or was the run made with the supercharger install only, using the factory or Vortech tuning? I have not heard of any driveability issues with either S/C. Under normal driving conditions, both types should not be a problem. What have you heard/seen/experienced to the contrary?
I do have to admit that when someone disagrees with a response, the emotions are clearly evident.
I will have to make it a point to Dyno before and after my SC install and make a pre and post 1/4 mile run to see the difference.
To disagree without being disagreeable can be more productive than just being disagreeable. I am not selling anything, promoting anything, nor did I recommend either. I gave facts as they are documented, and my personal preference for my install. I like the look, feel and performance that I have experienced. And like I stated earlier, the $ is comparable for the "cooled" kits.
On a different note, why the Vortech over the Procharger or any of the other centrifugal units? The ProCharger kit with the 3 core cooler is actually the least expensive kit I have seen.
04-04-2006, 12:59 PM
#9
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 592
RE: supppercharged.
procharger is cheap and come intercooled and makes good numbers on stock motors without blowing **** up....most the cars at my track with s/c are using prochargers... i like how much quieter they are so ppl dont know right away your blown..... katrina sucked lost my job at grand casino gulfport and my house on front beach gulfport... but what can i say **** happens..
04-04-2006, 01:08 PM
#10
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 26
RE: supppercharged.
Thanks for the response. I do not know anyone with a ProCharger. I go to Mobile 2 - 3 times a month, and will be going through probably Thursday. What track do you go to, and what day/night? I would like to see the ProCharger in action...... S for Katrina-the Biot-ch, I didn't lose anything except time (over 107 days straight in Belle Chasse, LA). Lots of industrial recovery projects.......