Air Intake, 04 GT
07-13-2004, 02:06 AM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 153
RE: Air Intake, 04 GT
If I'm not mistaken, the K&N kit leaves the filter exposed under the hood. I live in (Hot) Louisiana and my stang is a daily driver. So, unless I want my ride to suck in hot air from the radiator and motor, K&N is a no-no. I wouldn't go with any CAI that isn't closed and drawing air from the fenderwell, or one that places the filter in the fenderwell. The fenderwell mount kits are ok in my book but they make it a bitch to remove, clean, and reinstall the filter. I have the StreetSmart CAI and it works great and looks fine. Matter of fact, I might be willing to sell you mine in a couple of weeks when I get my KB S/C and big tube intake kit. The guys over at SSD are really cool and support their product well.
[IMG]local://upfiles/1259/D182E3CA760341EF863A46824DA82AFE.jpg[/IMG]
Oh and the CAI's with the metal heat shield are a waste (Steeda, unfortunately). They are pretty, and I'm sure flow well. But obviously, hot air flows around the "shield", and they're made of metal which will soak heat anyway... The SSD is made of a high-grade plastic, athough it's not as thick as the stock unit, it should keep the filter cooler...
[IMG]local://upfiles/1259/D182E3CA760341EF863A46824DA82AFE.jpg[/IMG]
Oh and the CAI's with the metal heat shield are a waste (Steeda, unfortunately). They are pretty, and I'm sure flow well. But obviously, hot air flows around the "shield", and they're made of metal which will soak heat anyway... The SSD is made of a high-grade plastic, athough it's not as thick as the stock unit, it should keep the filter cooler...
07-13-2004, 11:53 AM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 262
RE: Air Intake, 04 GT
Here we go again with the "cold air" from the fender thing.... Here's a post I had on another forum.
----------------------------------------
When I decided to get a CAI, naturally the next question was which CAI to get. I read thread after thread on different message boards comparing the different cold air intake (CAI) kits available for the Mustang. I realized there were so many choices but I narrowed it down to two general types. There are ones with the filter in the engine bay protected by a heat shield, and ones with the filter in the fender. The arguments around the filter location are all about the air temperature. The engine bay mounted filters are said to suck hot air, while the fender mounted filters suck cooler air. The popular engine bay mounted kits are the Steeda and K&N kits. MAC and Densecharger are popular fender mounted kits.
I’ve seen this air temperature argument so many times and thought to myself, this was something I could easily validate. I went to the hardware store and looked for indoor/outdoor thermometers. I found this digital thermometer with an outdoor sensor on a 10’ wire for $10. Perfect! I bought two so I could take temperature readings in the engine bay and in the fender at the same time. I hurried home and opened up the hood. I attached one sensor along the front brace, just behind the passenger side headlight. The sensor was about two inches in front of the K&N filter in the engine bay. I attached the second sensor to some cable inside the fender. It was about 4 inches into the cavity for the air silencer. I ran both wires into the car and attached the two thermometers to an old CD. I rechecked all my connections and I was ready to start my data collection. The geek inside me was happy and I’m sure I got a few weird looks from the neighbors. Time to drive around.
[These message forums don't make it easy to post data in a tabular format so I'll just summarize the data.]
The data tells me that once I am moving above 15 mph, the temperature difference averages around 3.5 degrees. With the a/c running, the engine bay was around 4-5 degrees warmer than the fender area. At speeds less than 15 mph, the difference goes above 10 degrees. The engine bay is definitely hotter but only by a few degrees when the car is moving.
Does the air temperature matter? I can’t answer that. I’ve seen some claims on the Internet about losing 1 hp per 10 degrees increase in air temperature. If we assume that is true, then having the filter in the fender gives you ¼ to ½ hp over the guy with the filter in the engine bay.
Do I miss that fraction of a horse because I got the K&N FIPK? No. If we assume the 1 hp per 10 degrees is accurate, then my car will produce 2-3 hp more in the early morning than my drive home at 5:30 pm only because of the weather. The ¼ to ½ hp is negligible.
Does the extra half hp result in better mileage or performance? In a laboratory or on paper, Yes. But in the real world, a slight incline in the road, or a light wind, or having a passenger, or a little traffic will have so much more impact on mileage and performance that the ¼ to ½ hp is again neglible.
My recommendation is to choose a CAI that has the larger filter for more surface area, and one that has the shortest path to the throttle body.
----------------------------------------
When I decided to get a CAI, naturally the next question was which CAI to get. I read thread after thread on different message boards comparing the different cold air intake (CAI) kits available for the Mustang. I realized there were so many choices but I narrowed it down to two general types. There are ones with the filter in the engine bay protected by a heat shield, and ones with the filter in the fender. The arguments around the filter location are all about the air temperature. The engine bay mounted filters are said to suck hot air, while the fender mounted filters suck cooler air. The popular engine bay mounted kits are the Steeda and K&N kits. MAC and Densecharger are popular fender mounted kits.
I’ve seen this air temperature argument so many times and thought to myself, this was something I could easily validate. I went to the hardware store and looked for indoor/outdoor thermometers. I found this digital thermometer with an outdoor sensor on a 10’ wire for $10. Perfect! I bought two so I could take temperature readings in the engine bay and in the fender at the same time. I hurried home and opened up the hood. I attached one sensor along the front brace, just behind the passenger side headlight. The sensor was about two inches in front of the K&N filter in the engine bay. I attached the second sensor to some cable inside the fender. It was about 4 inches into the cavity for the air silencer. I ran both wires into the car and attached the two thermometers to an old CD. I rechecked all my connections and I was ready to start my data collection. The geek inside me was happy and I’m sure I got a few weird looks from the neighbors. Time to drive around.
[These message forums don't make it easy to post data in a tabular format so I'll just summarize the data.]
The data tells me that once I am moving above 15 mph, the temperature difference averages around 3.5 degrees. With the a/c running, the engine bay was around 4-5 degrees warmer than the fender area. At speeds less than 15 mph, the difference goes above 10 degrees. The engine bay is definitely hotter but only by a few degrees when the car is moving.
Does the air temperature matter? I can’t answer that. I’ve seen some claims on the Internet about losing 1 hp per 10 degrees increase in air temperature. If we assume that is true, then having the filter in the fender gives you ¼ to ½ hp over the guy with the filter in the engine bay.
Do I miss that fraction of a horse because I got the K&N FIPK? No. If we assume the 1 hp per 10 degrees is accurate, then my car will produce 2-3 hp more in the early morning than my drive home at 5:30 pm only because of the weather. The ¼ to ½ hp is negligible.
Does the extra half hp result in better mileage or performance? In a laboratory or on paper, Yes. But in the real world, a slight incline in the road, or a light wind, or having a passenger, or a little traffic will have so much more impact on mileage and performance that the ¼ to ½ hp is again neglible.
My recommendation is to choose a CAI that has the larger filter for more surface area, and one that has the shortest path to the throttle body.
07-13-2004, 12:42 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 153
RE: Air Intake, 04 GT
My concern isn't so much how heat affects performance (though it does). It's how heated air can cause detonation and shorten engine life. Tell the guys who ice their intakes and intercool their turbos and superchargers that hot air makes no difference. Tell automobile manufacturers that make all those pretty fenderwell-air-sucking (they ALL do these days) that the hot air makes no difference. I don't want to be stuck in stop-and-go traffic worrying that if I decide to goose the gas to merge or switch lanes or whatever that I'll put a hole in a piston. Sure, the likelyhood might be low on a N/A car but I personally won't be N/A long...
07-13-2004, 02:00 PM
#5
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 11
RE: Air Intake, 04 GT
Ridiculous, MineralGrey. Engine temp would have to rise significantly (like a couple hundred degrees) before you really had to worry about it - I am guessing 15 degrees will be the top increase in temp from what propellerhead indicated. Superchargers are more than likely come with a different air intake, so choosing one for your n/a motor is totally different. Also, s/c and turbos radically increase air temp (compress the air and the energy goes some where), which is why they usally use intercoolers. They put ice on the engines to decrease temp and increase the air density to increase hp, not to prolong the life of their engines appreiciably. Air going into your n/a motor is more than likely much cooler than any s/c or turbo setup you might have, regardless of position. You are never going to goose your motor and melt a piston based on where your air intake is, and further more, it is my opinion that there will be no noticeable shortening of engine life, either.
Nat
Nat
07-13-2004, 03:19 PM
#7
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 12.59@107mph
Posts: 592
RE: Air Intake, 04 GT
ORIGINAL: Stanley
He didn't say that the heat has no affect on your engine. He said that there wasn't that big of a difference in the temps from the fender compared to the engine compartment.
He didn't say that the heat has no affect on your engine. He said that there wasn't that big of a difference in the temps from the fender compared to the engine compartment.
07-13-2004, 05:04 PM
#8
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 153
RE: Air Intake, 04 GT
Detonation can cause a piston to break (note I never said "melt").
Maybe you've never been in 102 degree weather, stuck in mid-day traffic, on a black asphalt road. I think the temperature will vary more than you imagine.
In any case, we all know that auto manufacturers cut costs at every opportunity. If they thought it would be good, I'm sure they would omit all the airboxes and tubing they design and install to pull the fresh air from outside the engine compartment.
It just goes against (my) common sense to heat the air going into the motor, at all...
Anyway this is all my opinion, not backed up by my own scientific analysis.
Maybe you've never been in 102 degree weather, stuck in mid-day traffic, on a black asphalt road. I think the temperature will vary more than you imagine.
In any case, we all know that auto manufacturers cut costs at every opportunity. If they thought it would be good, I'm sure they would omit all the airboxes and tubing they design and install to pull the fresh air from outside the engine compartment.
It just goes against (my) common sense to heat the air going into the motor, at all...
Anyway this is all my opinion, not backed up by my own scientific analysis.
