Dyno expectations and advice
12-06-2006, 05:11 AM
#1
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
Dyno expectations and advice
There have been at least 3-4 threads lately with people posting completly outrageous dyno numbers, so I thought it might help to have a thread talking about what to expect/what your car should make, and what questions you should ask before you leave the dyno shop etc.
A couple helpful tips/questions to ask:
1. What brand and model of dyno was used? Different brands/models of dyno read quite a bit differently from each other. On average, the mobile/above ground dynos will read the highest (dyno dynamics etc), followed by the dynojets, and then the mustang dynos which read the lowest. For reference, my car is making 38x on a mustang dyno, but around 415-420 on a dynojet.
2. Are they using corrected or uncorrected numbers? In either case, ask what the other numbers were. I have seen corrected numbers be both high and low from uncorrected ones, as this is taking into account weather conditions. I place very little stock in corrected numbers if they vary much from uncorrected ones.
3. GET a BASELINE done on your car. It is much easier to swallow that the dyno is screwed up if you get a baseline on your car (no mods done) and it reads 250 WHP or something crazy. At least you know that the dyno is not accurate right off the bat. Most shops will let you do one or three dyno pulls without a/f for like 30 to 80 bucks, its well worth it. Another plus is that you get a TRUE feel for how much power you have added to the car.
4. Do NOT get pissed if everyone comes on and tells you your numbers are messed up. If everyone is telling you this, its not a consipracy, its just because YOUR NUMBERS ARE SCREWED UP. People are trying to help you, not to metion saving you embarassment from being called a ricer at your local car hangout.
5. There is NO such thing as a "factory freak". You are not going to get a car that makes any more than 5-10 WHP more than another person with the same mods, assuming you both have a good tune. This is not the 60's, and there arn't freak camshafts etc laying around the production floor just waiting to be accidentally installed. I should know, I worked in automotive for over 4 years. You are not going to make 20+ more WHP than another person with the same setup simply because you have a "super great tune" from "joe at supernatural motorsports". There are definatly bad tuners out there, but espcially when talking about a n/a boltons car, there simply is not that much difficulty in tuning the car.
6. ANY SHOP can at ANY TIME make a dyno read whatever they want. With a few clicks of the mouse I can have your stock 96 NPI car making 500 WHP. It really is that simple. There HAVE been quite a few shops known to dyno your car, add a few simple parts, and then crank up the dyno and give you false numbers to make themselves look good. If your getting 20 WHP out of that catback and 30 out of a CAI setup, its time to start looking for another shop. If they are shady on the dyno, what else are they shady about?
On to what to expect:
Your average stock 5 speed 99-04 GT will make around 225 to 230 WHP. The auto cars will on average read 10 to 15 WHP less, so figure around 210 to 220 WHP. ALL of the 99-04 cars (autos vs autos etc) are THE SAME. The differences in the engines were nothing more than ford saving money/refining the manufacuting process.
Your average 5 speed car with all the boltons, that is to say LTs, midpipe, catback, filter to throttle body aftermarket, (be it a RAI or CAI) throttle body, plenum, and underdrive pulleys, will make somewhere around 255 to 265 WHP, depending on tune, and around 300 FT/LBs. I have not personally seen ONE car over 265 WHP, but I would say that 270 WHP is believable with all the boltons and the stock gearing, as the stock gearing will read SLIGHTLY higher than a set of 3.73s/4.10s If you are making signfincantly more than this YOUR DYNO IS OFF, plain and simple.
Adding a set of cams to the above mentioned car will put it in the 280 to 290 WHP range, with a few of the more agressive camshaft profiles and great tunes making power in the low 290s. The more agressive cams will generally loose a bit of torque, but with the proper tune a stage 1 or even 2 should still make 295/300 ft/lbs.
Adding a set of ported heads will put you somewhere in the 310 WHP range, assuming you still have the factory shortblock.
If your car is significantly out of wack with any of these numbers, you are simply on a dyno that is reading high/low. The most important thing to realise is that THIS DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. Dynos are not ment to be tools for bragging/racing (although the mustang dynos do allow you to run a 1/4 mile on them, but I am extremely sceptical of the results). The ENTIRE purpose of a dyno is to show the difference between before and after your modifications, and to help tune the car. So long as a dyno is CONSITANT it doesn't really matter if it tells you 10 or 1000 WHP.
I dunno if it is so, but I almost feel this quailfys as a stickey? Not that anyone ever reads stickeys, but at least we can just point to the top of the forum and give em a link the next time a boltons only car comes in making 300+ WHP
A couple helpful tips/questions to ask:
1. What brand and model of dyno was used? Different brands/models of dyno read quite a bit differently from each other. On average, the mobile/above ground dynos will read the highest (dyno dynamics etc), followed by the dynojets, and then the mustang dynos which read the lowest. For reference, my car is making 38x on a mustang dyno, but around 415-420 on a dynojet.
2. Are they using corrected or uncorrected numbers? In either case, ask what the other numbers were. I have seen corrected numbers be both high and low from uncorrected ones, as this is taking into account weather conditions. I place very little stock in corrected numbers if they vary much from uncorrected ones.
3. GET a BASELINE done on your car. It is much easier to swallow that the dyno is screwed up if you get a baseline on your car (no mods done) and it reads 250 WHP or something crazy. At least you know that the dyno is not accurate right off the bat. Most shops will let you do one or three dyno pulls without a/f for like 30 to 80 bucks, its well worth it. Another plus is that you get a TRUE feel for how much power you have added to the car.
4. Do NOT get pissed if everyone comes on and tells you your numbers are messed up. If everyone is telling you this, its not a consipracy, its just because YOUR NUMBERS ARE SCREWED UP. People are trying to help you, not to metion saving you embarassment from being called a ricer at your local car hangout.
5. There is NO such thing as a "factory freak". You are not going to get a car that makes any more than 5-10 WHP more than another person with the same mods, assuming you both have a good tune. This is not the 60's, and there arn't freak camshafts etc laying around the production floor just waiting to be accidentally installed. I should know, I worked in automotive for over 4 years. You are not going to make 20+ more WHP than another person with the same setup simply because you have a "super great tune" from "joe at supernatural motorsports". There are definatly bad tuners out there, but espcially when talking about a n/a boltons car, there simply is not that much difficulty in tuning the car.
6. ANY SHOP can at ANY TIME make a dyno read whatever they want. With a few clicks of the mouse I can have your stock 96 NPI car making 500 WHP. It really is that simple. There HAVE been quite a few shops known to dyno your car, add a few simple parts, and then crank up the dyno and give you false numbers to make themselves look good. If your getting 20 WHP out of that catback and 30 out of a CAI setup, its time to start looking for another shop. If they are shady on the dyno, what else are they shady about?
On to what to expect:
Your average stock 5 speed 99-04 GT will make around 225 to 230 WHP. The auto cars will on average read 10 to 15 WHP less, so figure around 210 to 220 WHP. ALL of the 99-04 cars (autos vs autos etc) are THE SAME. The differences in the engines were nothing more than ford saving money/refining the manufacuting process.
Your average 5 speed car with all the boltons, that is to say LTs, midpipe, catback, filter to throttle body aftermarket, (be it a RAI or CAI) throttle body, plenum, and underdrive pulleys, will make somewhere around 255 to 265 WHP, depending on tune, and around 300 FT/LBs. I have not personally seen ONE car over 265 WHP, but I would say that 270 WHP is believable with all the boltons and the stock gearing, as the stock gearing will read SLIGHTLY higher than a set of 3.73s/4.10s If you are making signfincantly more than this YOUR DYNO IS OFF, plain and simple.
Adding a set of cams to the above mentioned car will put it in the 280 to 290 WHP range, with a few of the more agressive camshaft profiles and great tunes making power in the low 290s. The more agressive cams will generally loose a bit of torque, but with the proper tune a stage 1 or even 2 should still make 295/300 ft/lbs.
Adding a set of ported heads will put you somewhere in the 310 WHP range, assuming you still have the factory shortblock.
If your car is significantly out of wack with any of these numbers, you are simply on a dyno that is reading high/low. The most important thing to realise is that THIS DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. Dynos are not ment to be tools for bragging/racing (although the mustang dynos do allow you to run a 1/4 mile on them, but I am extremely sceptical of the results). The ENTIRE purpose of a dyno is to show the difference between before and after your modifications, and to help tune the car. So long as a dyno is CONSITANT it doesn't really matter if it tells you 10 or 1000 WHP.
I dunno if it is so, but I almost feel this quailfys as a stickey? Not that anyone ever reads stickeys, but at least we can just point to the top of the forum and give em a link the next time a boltons only car comes in making 300+ WHP
12-06-2006, 05:22 AM
#3
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Dyno expectations and advice
When I get home I will post my boltons only, and boltons + cams graphs, just so people can see what to expect, but I am at work atm.
I don't have a baseline, and that is one BIG regret I have about my car.
I don't have a baseline, and that is one BIG regret I have about my car.
12-06-2006, 11:16 AM
#6
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: florida
Posts: 872
RE: Dyno expectations and advice
Great write up and I vote for a sticky. One question though, why would a car with a higher gear ratio (ie.. 4.10) show a lower rwhp on a dyno? It seems to me that there would be some way to adjust for the various gears.
12-06-2006, 11:21 AM
#7
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,284
RE: Dyno expectations and advice
Well I know my original dyno numbers with minor bolt ons , before the SC. pp, cam. forged motor was 248 RWHP on a dynojet. There was no tune at the time.
Accufab TB/Plenum
K&N FIPK
MAC OR X pipe
SLP Power Flo Cat Back
Believe me, this guy doesn't try to just put numbers on the board, in fact I told him how disappointed I was and he said that was pretty decent for the mods I had at the time.
After my 360 rwhp with the sc and an addition of the pro-m blow through maf, and bbk shorties, SCT tune, I was again disappointed. He told me he can get me the numbers if I want, but that's not the way to go about getting the right numbers. It's funny how he said most speed shops will just put the numbers down on paper you want and won't tune it properly because most guys want to show everyone false numbers.
Oh well, BLAH, lol. HOPEFULLY today with be the final day for my final numbers. Check my Dyno post later today, hopefully I'l have something on there.
Accufab TB/Plenum
K&N FIPK
MAC OR X pipe
SLP Power Flo Cat Back
Believe me, this guy doesn't try to just put numbers on the board, in fact I told him how disappointed I was and he said that was pretty decent for the mods I had at the time.
After my 360 rwhp with the sc and an addition of the pro-m blow through maf, and bbk shorties, SCT tune, I was again disappointed. He told me he can get me the numbers if I want, but that's not the way to go about getting the right numbers. It's funny how he said most speed shops will just put the numbers down on paper you want and won't tune it properly because most guys want to show everyone false numbers.
Oh well, BLAH, lol. HOPEFULLY today with be the final day for my final numbers. Check my Dyno post later today, hopefully I'l have something on there.
12-06-2006, 11:58 AM
#9
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 2,375
RE: Dyno expectations and advice
I vote sticky, I can't stand all the posts by the guy with a few boltons thinking his car makes 300+rwhp. Makes me so sad that I'm going to spend all this money on a supercharger when all I really needed was like 3 more boltons!!!! 
