Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
02-08-2007, 01:13 PM
#21
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: carlisle PA
Posts: 3,007
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
alright i haven't fully read your posts because you make them too freaking long. but your look on the crappy 2v engine is way out of proportion. i mean you can make alright power on a 2v but do you know how freaking hard it is to acheive 600RWHP?!?! you have to spend THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS. SHM only made a S/Ced 2v up to 675 engine HP. You are way better off buying a 3v or 4v if you're going to make that sort of power. I've been looking at the 3v engines myself for a swap instead of a 4v. I've heard that the motor mounts are different though.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Here is the entire point:
To really make any power, you must go FI. Even with a 3v setup your not going to see the power levels a bolton/blower combo will make with a bone stock engine.
So, you need some sort of FI. Once you get a FI setup, the limiting factor is the factory shortblock, not the H/C/I package. To exceed about 440 RWHP, regardless of the head package, you will need a forged assembly.
After forging the shortblock, with the right supercharger/fuel system setup the car will make 550+ with just the FI, boltons, and a set of cams. MPH has a 60x WHP car on the stock intake/heads on 93 octane!
The entire point is, unless you want to exceed about 600-650 WHP you are wasting your time (and lots of money) swapping to a 4v or 3v setup.. because the 2v setup is already in the car it is FAR cheaper to just keep the 2v setup and spend the money you would have spent on the headswap doing something else (like the 3500+ shortblock, very expensive fuel system etc etc).
I can guarentee you one thing: Unless you just get an insanely crazy deal on the parts, and can do all the labor yourself (in other words, your a klepto by night and a mechanic by day) you simply cannot make the 3v/4v swap make since finacially unless you want to make big big big power (which means big big money... and why are you driving a GT again?). No matter the setup, I can show you a cheaper way to do it with the 2v stuff up to about 650 WHP.
Here is the entire point:
To really make any power, you must go FI. Even with a 3v setup your not going to see the power levels a bolton/blower combo will make with a bone stock engine.
So, you need some sort of FI. Once you get a FI setup, the limiting factor is the factory shortblock, not the H/C/I package. To exceed about 440 RWHP, regardless of the head package, you will need a forged assembly.
After forging the shortblock, with the right supercharger/fuel system setup the car will make 550+ with just the FI, boltons, and a set of cams. MPH has a 60x WHP car on the stock intake/heads on 93 octane!
The entire point is, unless you want to exceed about 600-650 WHP you are wasting your time (and lots of money) swapping to a 4v or 3v setup.. because the 2v setup is already in the car it is FAR cheaper to just keep the 2v setup and spend the money you would have spent on the headswap doing something else (like the 3500+ shortblock, very expensive fuel system etc etc).
I can guarentee you one thing: Unless you just get an insanely crazy deal on the parts, and can do all the labor yourself (in other words, your a klepto by night and a mechanic by day) you simply cannot make the 3v/4v swap make since finacially unless you want to make big big big power (which means big big money... and why are you driving a GT again?). No matter the setup, I can show you a cheaper way to do it with the 2v stuff up to about 650 WHP.
02-08-2007, 01:21 PM
#22
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: west chester
Posts: 3,305
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
he is right, doing a 3v swap u could make an easy 400 whp n/a with just some minor mods cams and a tune,then go f/i and u walla u have 600 whp, probably more witha nice tune. those comps and motors respond so well to mods its not funny. just get the motor and be done with it.
ORIGINAL: silverstang1996
alright i haven't fully read your posts because you make them too freaking long. but your look on the crappy 2v engine is way out of proportion. i mean you can make alright power on a 2v but do you know how freaking hard it is to acheive 600RWHP?!?! you have to spend THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS. SHM only made a S/Ced 2v up to 675 engine HP. You are way better off buying a 3v or 4v if you're going to make that sort of power. I've been looking at the 3v engines myself for a swap instead of a 4v. I've heard that the motor mounts are different though.
alright i haven't fully read your posts because you make them too freaking long. but your look on the crappy 2v engine is way out of proportion. i mean you can make alright power on a 2v but do you know how freaking hard it is to acheive 600RWHP?!?! you have to spend THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS. SHM only made a S/Ced 2v up to 675 engine HP. You are way better off buying a 3v or 4v if you're going to make that sort of power. I've been looking at the 3v engines myself for a swap instead of a 4v. I've heard that the motor mounts are different though.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Here is the entire point:
To really make any power, you must go FI. Even with a 3v setup your not going to see the power levels a bolton/blower combo will make with a bone stock engine.
So, you need some sort of FI. Once you get a FI setup, the limiting factor is the factory shortblock, not the H/C/I package. To exceed about 440 RWHP, regardless of the head package, you will need a forged assembly.
After forging the shortblock, with the right supercharger/fuel system setup the car will make 550+ with just the FI, boltons, and a set of cams. MPH has a 60x WHP car on the stock intake/heads on 93 octane!
The entire point is, unless you want to exceed about 600-650 WHP you are wasting your time (and lots of money) swapping to a 4v or 3v setup.. because the 2v setup is already in the car it is FAR cheaper to just keep the 2v setup and spend the money you would have spent on the headswap doing something else (like the 3500+ shortblock, very expensive fuel system etc etc).
I can guarentee you one thing: Unless you just get an insanely crazy deal on the parts, and can do all the labor yourself (in other words, your a klepto by night and a mechanic by day) you simply cannot make the 3v/4v swap make since finacially unless you want to make big big big power (which means big big money... and why are you driving a GT again?). No matter the setup, I can show you a cheaper way to do it with the 2v stuff up to about 650 WHP.
Here is the entire point:
To really make any power, you must go FI. Even with a 3v setup your not going to see the power levels a bolton/blower combo will make with a bone stock engine.
So, you need some sort of FI. Once you get a FI setup, the limiting factor is the factory shortblock, not the H/C/I package. To exceed about 440 RWHP, regardless of the head package, you will need a forged assembly.
After forging the shortblock, with the right supercharger/fuel system setup the car will make 550+ with just the FI, boltons, and a set of cams. MPH has a 60x WHP car on the stock intake/heads on 93 octane!
The entire point is, unless you want to exceed about 600-650 WHP you are wasting your time (and lots of money) swapping to a 4v or 3v setup.. because the 2v setup is already in the car it is FAR cheaper to just keep the 2v setup and spend the money you would have spent on the headswap doing something else (like the 3500+ shortblock, very expensive fuel system etc etc).
I can guarentee you one thing: Unless you just get an insanely crazy deal on the parts, and can do all the labor yourself (in other words, your a klepto by night and a mechanic by day) you simply cannot make the 3v/4v swap make since finacially unless you want to make big big big power (which means big big money... and why are you driving a GT again?). No matter the setup, I can show you a cheaper way to do it with the 2v stuff up to about 650 WHP.
02-08-2007, 01:24 PM
#23
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: carlisle PA
Posts: 3,007
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
i mean hell even that guy with the green mustang(2000something is his name on here) he has the aigbags on his stang too. but anyways he's only making like 456RWHP and 432RWTQ in his 2v GT. So you need to have it a full out race 2v for 600rwhp. The 2v sucks when it comes to that much power on a small budget.
02-08-2007, 01:36 PM
#24
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: west chester
Posts: 3,305
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
not too jack the thread but is the teskid block the one used on the lincoln mark VIII
ORIGINAL: silverstang1996
i mean hell even that guy with the green mustang(2000something is his name on here) he has the aigbags on his stang too. but anyways he's only making like 456RWHP and 432RWTQ in his 2v GT. So you need to have it a full out race 2v for 600rwhp. The 2v sucks when it comes to that much power on a small budget.
i mean hell even that guy with the green mustang(2000something is his name on here) he has the aigbags on his stang too. but anyways he's only making like 456RWHP and 432RWTQ in his 2v GT. So you need to have it a full out race 2v for 600rwhp. The 2v sucks when it comes to that much power on a small budget.
02-08-2007, 08:33 PM
#28
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 253
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
Karkraft.com
One thing though, I spoke to a buddy of mine about this swap. There are additional factors involved when swapping to a 3v as opposed to the 4v which make it nearly as difficult if not more. Drive by wire, spanish oak and the variable cam timing. If you get a whole motor then yea its not AS much of a bitch but a 4v swap is easier...............parts wise more expensive but not by too much. Power wise.........more rewarding aswell but that too isn't by too much.
Going FI is always cheaper and more hp rewarding no matter when you do it. Either on an already stout NA build up or a stock motor. Its what you want and what you want to spend.
One thing though, I spoke to a buddy of mine about this swap. There are additional factors involved when swapping to a 3v as opposed to the 4v which make it nearly as difficult if not more. Drive by wire, spanish oak and the variable cam timing. If you get a whole motor then yea its not AS much of a bitch but a 4v swap is easier...............parts wise more expensive but not by too much. Power wise.........more rewarding aswell but that too isn't by too much.
Going FI is always cheaper and more hp rewarding no matter when you do it. Either on an already stout NA build up or a stock motor. Its what you want and what you want to spend.
03-28-2007, 07:05 PM
#29
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 72
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
Converting to 3V or 4V will be about the same so flip a coin and pick.Don't try to swap just the heads, that isa waste of time - get a whole engine. You will have to take the engine out of the car regardless of which you chose.
The 3V conversion is easy but hard -read below, getting the money and parts can be tough too. We are going to figure out this conversion over the summer. This will be our second project for the year. It will take me all summer and maybe next winter to get the parts so don't start asking questions yet. Below is a good list of what you will need, it won't be cheap. Also check our first project for the year... www.ckscompany.com/mustang.htm -306 Trickflow 5.0 It's fast as hell but is still in the break-in period with less than 100 miles on all new stuff. At 3000 RPM sounds like a real muscle car should. We did this in a 2 car garage -which is just enough room to work on 1 car.
2007 Mustang GT Complete Motor Assembly $3750 on ebay.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...QQcmdZViewItem
This is the same price we've been looking at all year, with less than 5K miles. This one has the AUTOtransmission and ECU.
Getting the 05'-08'Spanish OakECU to work with your 96-04 mustang will be more of a hassle than impossible. Get as much as possible from a wreck or a car that had an engine swap. You will have 2 electrical systems in the end, one for the 3V engine, andone for your car's body, lights, and interior electronics. Keep in mind the 3V engine is drive-by-wire so you will need the whole throttle assembly from a wrecked 2005 mustang, including the intake, fuel system,sensors and engine wiring harness, gas peddle assembly and peddle position sensor, along with the ECU.It sounds like a lot but if you have swapped out engines in the pastthe work load isn'ttoo much.I think the 05' aluminum block has different motor mounts but SHM should have the adapters. The 05' block will bolt onto your bellhousing but the 05' transmission will not fit without serious work. The 05' intake is front entry so the throttle body will hit the hood of your car, an aftermarket cowl hood may be needed, but I havn't figured this out yet. The exhaust headers may be different - the ports may be in different locations so modified 05 exhaust headers will be needed - this will be another pain in the rear similar to the hood clearance issue. This is also a good time to replace the factory guages. The in-dash warning lights could be re-wired to work with the 05' ECU but you would be better off getting a programmer that can read codes. Re-wiring a dashwould take as long as getting the conversion done. Put in the basic guages, speedo, tach, water, oil, fuel, etc. You will need the in-dash wiring harness from an 05' if you want to use the 05' warning lights but you could also get a programmer as I mentioned before. You may have to disconnect your car's original in-dash warning lights so they don't keep lighting up in the dash panel.
The turn signals, lights, and non-enginerelated controls are not connected to the ECU or engineand will keep working as they did before. Keep in mind each wire has it's own color codes so take time reading the electrical diagrams and it will make sense. When you see common wire colors that are solid colors they are usually "always hot" or a ground wire.
Electrical and clearance issues will be the hardest to work out. Do you like and trust jack stands? I estimate this to be 8 weekends at 20 hours per weekend if you have all the parts and 2 friends to help out when you need to man-handle removal and installation of the engine.
The first people to figure this out will be the ones who spend the most money. I would like to sell a complete kit. Iam going to figureout how to eliminate the drive-by wire throttle control too.
I am going to start this conversion very soon, check www.ckscompany.com/mustang.htm in August for more information.
Let a few other people wast parts and money before you do.
Later.
The 3V conversion is easy but hard -read below, getting the money and parts can be tough too. We are going to figure out this conversion over the summer. This will be our second project for the year. It will take me all summer and maybe next winter to get the parts so don't start asking questions yet. Below is a good list of what you will need, it won't be cheap. Also check our first project for the year... www.ckscompany.com/mustang.htm -306 Trickflow 5.0 It's fast as hell but is still in the break-in period with less than 100 miles on all new stuff. At 3000 RPM sounds like a real muscle car should. We did this in a 2 car garage -which is just enough room to work on 1 car.
2007 Mustang GT Complete Motor Assembly $3750 on ebay.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...QQcmdZViewItem
This is the same price we've been looking at all year, with less than 5K miles. This one has the AUTOtransmission and ECU.
Getting the 05'-08'Spanish OakECU to work with your 96-04 mustang will be more of a hassle than impossible. Get as much as possible from a wreck or a car that had an engine swap. You will have 2 electrical systems in the end, one for the 3V engine, andone for your car's body, lights, and interior electronics. Keep in mind the 3V engine is drive-by-wire so you will need the whole throttle assembly from a wrecked 2005 mustang, including the intake, fuel system,sensors and engine wiring harness, gas peddle assembly and peddle position sensor, along with the ECU.It sounds like a lot but if you have swapped out engines in the pastthe work load isn'ttoo much.I think the 05' aluminum block has different motor mounts but SHM should have the adapters. The 05' block will bolt onto your bellhousing but the 05' transmission will not fit without serious work. The 05' intake is front entry so the throttle body will hit the hood of your car, an aftermarket cowl hood may be needed, but I havn't figured this out yet. The exhaust headers may be different - the ports may be in different locations so modified 05 exhaust headers will be needed - this will be another pain in the rear similar to the hood clearance issue. This is also a good time to replace the factory guages. The in-dash warning lights could be re-wired to work with the 05' ECU but you would be better off getting a programmer that can read codes. Re-wiring a dashwould take as long as getting the conversion done. Put in the basic guages, speedo, tach, water, oil, fuel, etc. You will need the in-dash wiring harness from an 05' if you want to use the 05' warning lights but you could also get a programmer as I mentioned before. You may have to disconnect your car's original in-dash warning lights so they don't keep lighting up in the dash panel.
The turn signals, lights, and non-enginerelated controls are not connected to the ECU or engineand will keep working as they did before. Keep in mind each wire has it's own color codes so take time reading the electrical diagrams and it will make sense. When you see common wire colors that are solid colors they are usually "always hot" or a ground wire.
Electrical and clearance issues will be the hardest to work out. Do you like and trust jack stands? I estimate this to be 8 weekends at 20 hours per weekend if you have all the parts and 2 friends to help out when you need to man-handle removal and installation of the engine.
The first people to figure this out will be the ones who spend the most money. I would like to sell a complete kit. Iam going to figureout how to eliminate the drive-by wire throttle control too.
I am going to start this conversion very soon, check www.ckscompany.com/mustang.htm in August for more information.
Let a few other people wast parts and money before you do.
Later.
03-28-2007, 07:23 PM
#30
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,756
RE: Help 99 4.6 2V to 3V conversion
ORIGINAL: silverstang1996
i mean hell even that guy with the green mustang(2000something is his name on here) he has the aigbags on his stang too. but anyways he's only making like 456RWHP and 432RWTQ in his 2v GT. So you need to have it a full out race 2v for 600rwhp. The 2v sucks when it comes to that much power on a small budget.
i mean hell even that guy with the green mustang(2000something is his name on here) he has the aigbags on his stang too. but anyways he's only making like 456RWHP and 432RWTQ in his 2v GT. So you need to have it a full out race 2v for 600rwhp. The 2v sucks when it comes to that much power on a small budget.