How much horsepower am i pushing?
02-13-2007, 06:42 PM
#21
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
i would have to say with all thoes mods you are probably pushing around 300 rwhp if not maybe a little less. Once you get that supercharger you will be happy... I have taked to a lot of people with them and they all seem to love them ..BIG DIFFERENCE 
.. take it to the track and put it on thedyno .. thats your best way of knowing... let me know how it all works out
.. take it to the track and put it on thedyno .. thats your best way of knowing... let me know how it all works out
02-13-2007, 08:41 PM
#23
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: N. Ft. Myers, Fl
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RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
ORIGINAL: jacrockett
It depends on how many # boost you run, what octane fuel you can easily get, and how "safe" you keep the tune.
Keep in mind that if you're looking for 375+ at the wheels, you're going to have to consider a forged rotating assembly, and some fuel system mods. If you ever want "reliable" 450+ rwhp, you need 4v heads.... in which case you should ditch the GT and go buy a Cobra (it's waaaaay cheaper, trust me).
ORIGINAL: GTMustang6921
Well, I plan to do a Vortech V-1 S-Trim supercharger in the next 2 months. So, what would your incite be on how much horsepower i would have?
Well, I plan to do a Vortech V-1 S-Trim supercharger in the next 2 months. So, what would your incite be on how much horsepower i would have?
Keep in mind that if you're looking for 375+ at the wheels, you're going to have to consider a forged rotating assembly, and some fuel system mods. If you ever want "reliable" 450+ rwhp, you need 4v heads.... in which case you should ditch the GT and go buy a Cobra (it's waaaaay cheaper, trust me).
O and you can take a 2000 or 99 gt and make 450 whp for a lot less than if you buy a cobra!
02-13-2007, 09:26 PM
#24
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
2v heads can make plenty of power,MORE(!?) power with certain blowers than the 4v. (KB)
Usually when you see a full bolt on heads cammed GT under 300 at the wheels its either untuned and/or lower compression than stock and/or blower cammed... So many different variables.
Usually when you see a full bolt on heads cammed GT under 300 at the wheels its either untuned and/or lower compression than stock and/or blower cammed... So many different variables.
02-14-2007, 01:59 AM
#25
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 616
RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
ORIGINAL: Chrome99
2v heads can make plenty of power,MORE(!?) power with certain blowers than the 4v. (KB)
Usually when you see a full bolt on heads cammed GT under 300 at the wheels its either untuned and/or lower compression than stock and/or blower cammed... So many different variables.
2v heads can make plenty of power,MORE(!?) power with certain blowers than the 4v. (KB)
Usually when you see a full bolt on heads cammed GT under 300 at the wheels its either untuned and/or lower compression than stock and/or blower cammed... So many different variables.
I've yet to ever hear of someone putting 100k hard-driven miles on a 450+ rwhp 2v.
02-14-2007, 02:25 AM
#26
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RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
ORIGINAL: jacrockett
I'll assume you're running 93 octane. Here in Cali, we're limited to 91.
Instead of talking max rwhp (which is rpm dependent), let's switch to max torque... better chance that we'rer talking apples to apples. Over 400 rwtq, I recommend a forged short block. Over 475 rwtq; need 4v heads.
To disagree here, we're onlyquibbling on the definition of "reliable". IMHO - 2v heads can't make over 475 rwtq for very long, at altitude, on a hot day.... unless you're turbo'd or using NO2.
I'll assume you're running 93 octane. Here in Cali, we're limited to 91.
Instead of talking max rwhp (which is rpm dependent), let's switch to max torque... better chance that we'rer talking apples to apples. Over 400 rwtq, I recommend a forged short block. Over 475 rwtq; need 4v heads.
To disagree here, we're onlyquibbling on the definition of "reliable". IMHO - 2v heads can't make over 475 rwtq for very long, at altitude, on a hot day.... unless you're turbo'd or using NO2.
Ok, so let's talk apples. I'm even further over 375 rwtq than I am 375 rwhp. Same scenario. When I surpass my 475 rwhp number I will be in 500+rwtq range. Without forged internals I wouldn't even consider it but to say a 2V head can't do it is being at too high an altitude, as in oxygen starvation of the brain.
How is turbo'd or N20 (or nitrous dioxide in your case - sorry, couldn't resist) any different? The extra torque they produce is the difference between making the magic 475 torque number and not? I don't think so.A turbo is probably more susceptible to hot day issues than a SC is...
Reliable doesn't need to be part of it as I'm talking about a DD, the one I currently drive in the snow, in the rain, on 105 degree days. It's reliable now and I'll reach my numbers using the same tuner. The 2V heads aren't the problem, it's the factory internals, then the stock block.
Wait, did I just say the heads aren't a problem? [&:]What I mean is that even though they suck donkey *****, they will not limit the 4.6 to some specific hp or tq number, it just takes more effort than it would with 4V heads (or 3V or anything any other manufacturer uses).
Dammit jacrockett, you made me defend these POS heads.
Edit: jacrockett, I just read that you meant it is easier with 4v heads and mod for mod the 4v is better. No kidding. Mod for mod LS1's are better. I just think that saying it can be done cheaper on 4v heads applies if you don't include the purchase price of the vehicle. I'm not even to the purchase price of a Terminator and I run with them. Dollar for dollar I'd actually take the 2v up until 550-600rwhp. At that point, economies of scale make the 4v a much better choice financially. I guess it really depends on what your goals are. If your goals are for over 600, why not start with a crate motor and twin turbo it, Cobra, GT, or a Celica for that matter. I just couldn't get over the statement of 475rwhp (or rwtq) can't be done reliably with 2v heads. That's misinformation, plain and simple.
02-14-2007, 02:35 AM
#28
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
ORIGINAL: jacrockett
I'll assume you're running 93 octane. Here in Cali, we're limited to 91.
Instead of talking max rwhp (which is rpm dependent), let's switch to max torque... better chance that we'rer talking apples to apples. Over 400 rwtq, I recommend a forged short block. Over 475 rwtq; need 4v heads.
To disagree here, we're onlyquibbling on the definition of "reliable". IMHO - 2v heads can't make over 475 rwtq for very long, at altitude, on a hot day.... unless you're turbo'd or using NO2.
I'll assume you're running 93 octane. Here in Cali, we're limited to 91.
Instead of talking max rwhp (which is rpm dependent), let's switch to max torque... better chance that we'rer talking apples to apples. Over 400 rwtq, I recommend a forged short block. Over 475 rwtq; need 4v heads.
To disagree here, we're onlyquibbling on the definition of "reliable". IMHO - 2v heads can't make over 475 rwtq for very long, at altitude, on a hot day.... unless you're turbo'd or using NO2.
Hell, on the stock shortblock I am already making 410 WTQ with a conservative tune. A built shortblock/stock heads/stock intake 2v would have NO problems exceeding 475 RWTQ with no reliablity problems.
MPH has a stock heads, stock intake novi 2000 carmaking 60x WHP with 93 octane, completely reliable. If you are blowing motors do to WHP either you didn't build it right or your tune sucks. A 600 WHP 2v will last just as long (longer if your comparing a stock shortblock 4v car to a aftermarket 2v) as a 4v car.
The heads have nothing to do with it other than the 2v needing a little more boost to make the same power levels. As I have said before, after counting in the price of a 4v swap (unless you have a great deal on your hands) up to about 650 WHP the 2v is cheaper to get there. Considering the purchase price of a 03/04 cobralongblock + computer etc etc is at bare minimum (one that doesn't need a rebuild anyway) around 6-8 grand the 2v wins every time.The real problem is that even with porting the stock eaton runs out of steam around 525 RWHP anyway (unless your gonna spray too) so once again your stuck buying a 4000+ blower setup for your car. One way or another, the 2v setup is cheaper if thats what came with the car until you try to exceed about 650 WHP.
I am simply at a loss as to where your logic is coming from. Exactly how would a set of 4v heads help keep the engine together? Other than running a little less boost for the same WHP numbers there really is no difference.
On the subject of a DD, anyone that plans on running big horsepower numbers in a DD (like 550+) is simply crazy. No matter what, its gonna get ****ty gas milage and its gonna be a handful (2v or 4v). And in any case who the hell can afford a 550+ WHP car and not afford a cheap DD? I would never drive my car as a DD... not because it wouldn't handle it but because I am not putting all of that money/time/effort into the car and then ruining it buy putting 30K+ a year on it.
02-14-2007, 02:56 PM
#29
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Posts: 616
RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
The DD design criteria (for me)includes being street-legal. My car is a DD, and it gets 20MPG if I don't get on it hard. Even with occasional boosting, I get 15-18 MPG.
I may be crazy (andalmo$t broke)to have 500+ rwhp in a DD, but that is what I wanted, and that is what I have. I never said that what I've done was cost effective, exactly the opposite is true. Buying and building a Cobra IS cheaper than doing an engine swap on a GT.
Regardless of where the cutoff power levelexactly is for a 2v,more streetable power can be made with a 4v. Anybody who argues otherwise knows $hi^ about tuning, air-flow, volumetric efficiency, etc. There is a limit to how much power the 2v can make. The limit for a 4v is simply much higher.... and the 4v doesn't need to work as hard to make that power = increased reliability.
I don't doubt that folks have made 600+ on a 2v motor, but not with 91 octane and no spray.... and cetainly not even close to street-legal. Even so, when one of those people hits 50-100k miles on that setup I will be quite impressed.
I may be crazy (andalmo$t broke)to have 500+ rwhp in a DD, but that is what I wanted, and that is what I have. I never said that what I've done was cost effective, exactly the opposite is true. Buying and building a Cobra IS cheaper than doing an engine swap on a GT.
Regardless of where the cutoff power levelexactly is for a 2v,more streetable power can be made with a 4v. Anybody who argues otherwise knows $hi^ about tuning, air-flow, volumetric efficiency, etc. There is a limit to how much power the 2v can make. The limit for a 4v is simply much higher.... and the 4v doesn't need to work as hard to make that power = increased reliability.
I don't doubt that folks have made 600+ on a 2v motor, but not with 91 octane and no spray.... and cetainly not even close to street-legal. Even so, when one of those people hits 50-100k miles on that setup I will be quite impressed.
02-15-2007, 09:19 PM
#30
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Posts: 199
RE: How much horsepower am i pushing?
Sure a "built and blown" 2v can make more power than a "stock" 4v, but all other mods being equal, the 4v will make more powerAND be more reliable. I've tried both. I'm not bragging. This has cost me buckets of $$$ learning the hard way. I know that a built 2v daily driver is no match for a built 4v daily driver. I'm just trying to help others to learn from the mistakes I made getting to where I am now.... kinda the point for forums such as this.
I've yet to ever hear of someone putting 100k hard-driven miles on a 450+ rwhp 2v.
Do the heads and cams on the 4valve and your still gonna have a damnhard time reaching the numbers a similar 2v can with a KB. Period.