thinking of supercharging
02-17-2007, 12:15 AM
#31
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: thinking of supercharging
Brans.. I think for once in a blue moon - we agree. The point I was making was that, the KB tune that comes with the KB s/c while a fine tune, cannot be a great tune because the difference in the way the cars react to certain mods in a certain climate. However, the KB tune is leaving HP on the table because canned tunes normally come very rich so they're conservative, so they dont blow anything on the FI setup. Our friend up there thinks his KB tune is the best tune ever it seems like.
My ignorant comment was made towards his comment that dyno tunes have netted his "buddies" less rwhp then the canned KB tune, thats all. You're right I wouldnt let some shops start my car up, nevertheless tune them, but to say that nobody can tune the car like the people at KB is just an ignorant way of looking at things. You just have to find a good tuner.
My ignorant comment was made towards his comment that dyno tunes have netted his "buddies" less rwhp then the canned KB tune, thats all. You're right I wouldnt let some shops start my car up, nevertheless tune them, but to say that nobody can tune the car like the people at KB is just an ignorant way of looking at things. You just have to find a good tuner.
ORIGINAL: bransdaman78
Inst that the pot calling the kettle black, everybody seems sold on joe blows advertised tuning ablity, but a wise person would only use a tuner that has verififably (in person) seem him/her tune a similiar car w/ similar mods to yours... i.e. a great s/c tuner, is not necessary a great turbo tuner. While anybody with an IQ over 10 would agree that the canned tune is not as good as a custom dyno tune, not every one is in a part of the country where they can get a well known tuner, anyway all im trying to say is that its just as ignorant to look on the internet and pull up links and dynos and such to try and prove this and that, or say that x tuner is better than somebody else, when you need to go to these places in person and make sure that they are capable of working on your car... I know serveral local shops that i wouldnt let change my oil - much less install and build motors like they say they can.
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
mp your tune maybe fine.. but i am sure you're running rich, leaving hp on the table.
It's pretty ignorant of you to think that tuners can't tune a car properly. I think you need to go to a good tuner.. haha
mp your tune maybe fine.. but i am sure you're running rich, leaving hp on the table.
It's pretty ignorant of you to think that tuners can't tune a car properly. I think you need to go to a good tuner.. haha
02-17-2007, 01:28 AM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 20
RE: thinking of supercharging
Hey Whats going on. I recommend going with the Saleen supercharger kit. I have an 07GT and I just popped the Supercharger kit and now I am looking to throw in the HP upgrade kit to be pushing my stang up to 500hp. The guys over at underground mustang were able to hook me up with great prices on this system, and I hear they have a special on the 99-04 supercharger kit that will put other businesses out of business. Give em a try might help you make a decision.
Willie Mustangs
07GTKING
Willie Mustangs
07GTKING
02-17-2007, 01:38 AM
#33
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Titty Bar
Posts: 805
RE: thinking of supercharging
ORIGINAL: mp23
Yes I do have a Kenne Belle,do you?The owners I know who have messed with them and had them tuned went slower. I realize that every set up is different. That is why you fill out sheet with your mods and send it to them before they build you the kit and your chip. It is not a one size fits all tune. My experience is that there are a lot of so called experts who dont know their A$$ from a hole in the ground so I dont put a whole lot of stock in what I read on the message boards. What do you expect a tuner to say?
I dont know about the other kits and I really dont care, but I do know about my system and I also know there are many many considerations when it comes to the tune. Could youget 20 more HP out of it? maybe, but I woud rather have 20 less hp than blow up. Mine runs perfect right out of the box. If you want the car to run and idle like it came from the factory until you stomp on it than leave it alone.
ORIGINAL: ASUSMC
You forgot to reallize that EVERY CAR IS DIFFERENT and everybody has different mods. Not to mention every blower is different. I made 407whp on a pretty much stock car. Somebody else could have made 420whp with fewer or more mods. They tested there product on 2 or 3 of the same cars over and over again.
Ask anyone with forced induction on this or ANY BOARD who has any idea what they are talking about and they will tell you to get a dyno tune. Do you even have a KB or any kind of supercharger???
You forgot to reallize that EVERY CAR IS DIFFERENT and everybody has different mods. Not to mention every blower is different. I made 407whp on a pretty much stock car. Somebody else could have made 420whp with fewer or more mods. They tested there product on 2 or 3 of the same cars over and over again.
Ask anyone with forced induction on this or ANY BOARD who has any idea what they are talking about and they will tell you to get a dyno tune. Do you even have a KB or any kind of supercharger???
I dont know about the other kits and I really dont care, but I do know about my system and I also know there are many many considerations when it comes to the tune. Could youget 20 more HP out of it? maybe, but I woud rather have 20 less hp than blow up. Mine runs perfect right out of the box. If you want the car to run and idle like it came from the factory until you stomp on it than leave it alone.
02-17-2007, 02:02 AM
#34
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: thinking of supercharging
the boost a pump is where you're wrong. I know a TON of Terminator guys that are running it with high hp numbers and fast 1/4 numbers... I've also been told by several reputable tuners to get it once i get my port and other mods installed that are sitting here in my room... The BAP is a good mod to have... especially if you don't need to upgrade the fuel pump yet...
02-17-2007, 03:29 AM
#37
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: thinking of supercharging
Never ever ever run the canned tune from any of the major supercharger manufactuers.
What you need to realise is that they produce ALOT of kits for alot of cars, and their tune is setup for a STOCK car with just their kit. Not only that, but because of problems with lawsuits etc and blown motors generally speaking the tunes will be very rich and very conservative.
If you know someone that has taken their car to a custom tuner and lost power from the KB/Vortech/whoever tune they are using a TERIBLE tuner. The tuner simply does not know what they are doing.
This is not to say that you need to have your car at the tuning shop and have it custom tuned on the dyno. There is a MAJOR difference between a "canned" tune and a custom mail order tune from a reputable shop. My car has never even been in georgia, let alone on MPH's dyno, yet they were able to get the tune spot on the very first try without ever seeing the car.
Regardless of what tune you run, you MUST get the car's a/f ratio checked out (be it on a dyno or just your own wideband). Even with the greatest tuner in the world something can go wrong. Every car is a little different, not to mention that thereis always the possibltyof a sticky injector or a bum fuelpump. Onour ****ty cast rotating assemblys thevery last thing you want is a leancondition, you don't get a second try!
What you need to realise is that they produce ALOT of kits for alot of cars, and their tune is setup for a STOCK car with just their kit. Not only that, but because of problems with lawsuits etc and blown motors generally speaking the tunes will be very rich and very conservative.
If you know someone that has taken their car to a custom tuner and lost power from the KB/Vortech/whoever tune they are using a TERIBLE tuner. The tuner simply does not know what they are doing.
This is not to say that you need to have your car at the tuning shop and have it custom tuned on the dyno. There is a MAJOR difference between a "canned" tune and a custom mail order tune from a reputable shop. My car has never even been in georgia, let alone on MPH's dyno, yet they were able to get the tune spot on the very first try without ever seeing the car.
Regardless of what tune you run, you MUST get the car's a/f ratio checked out (be it on a dyno or just your own wideband). Even with the greatest tuner in the world something can go wrong. Every car is a little different, not to mention that thereis always the possibltyof a sticky injector or a bum fuelpump. Onour ****ty cast rotating assemblys thevery last thing you want is a leancondition, you don't get a second try!
02-17-2007, 05:25 AM
#39
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,409
RE: thinking of supercharging
exactly I am not saying that KB doesn't know how to tune a car. I am just saying as they have never seen my car let alone had it on a Dyno how do they know what its gonna do. There are factory freaks out there and there are factory slugs. I took my car to a reputable tuner that has put Prochargers on more cars than I can throw a stick at, (including 3 Procharged cars in the 10's on stock motor), and had them tune it. KB also does not turn off your rear O2's so you may not pass emissions when you have to run it through. I will pass emissions because they plug my car in and it tells them I don't have rear O2's so there can't be a problem with them. Bottom line. My Procharged car makes over 400whp and wtq with timing cut WAY down up top so I don't blow it up. The car was on its way to 450-460whp before the timing was cut back.
02-17-2007, 07:51 AM
#40
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: thinking of supercharging
ORIGINAL: ASUSMC
exactly I am not saying that KB doesn't know how to tune a car. I am just saying as they have never seen my car let alone had it on a Dyno how do they know what its gonna do. There are factory freaks out there and there are factory slugs. I took my car to a reputable tuner that has put Prochargers on more cars than I can throw a stick at, (including 3 Procharged cars in the 10's on stock motor), and had them tune it. KB also does not turn off your rear O2's so you may not pass emissions when you have to run it through. I will pass emissions because they plug my car in and it tells them I don't have rear O2's so there can't be a problem with them. Bottom line. My Procharged car makes over 400whp and wtq with timing cut WAY down up top so I don't blow it up. The car was on its way to 450-460whp before the timing was cut back.
exactly I am not saying that KB doesn't know how to tune a car. I am just saying as they have never seen my car let alone had it on a Dyno how do they know what its gonna do. There are factory freaks out there and there are factory slugs. I took my car to a reputable tuner that has put Prochargers on more cars than I can throw a stick at, (including 3 Procharged cars in the 10's on stock motor), and had them tune it. KB also does not turn off your rear O2's so you may not pass emissions when you have to run it through. I will pass emissions because they plug my car in and it tells them I don't have rear O2's so there can't be a problem with them. Bottom line. My Procharged car makes over 400whp and wtq with timing cut WAY down up top so I don't blow it up. The car was on its way to 450-460whp before the timing was cut back.
I would like to see you get on another dynojet (or a mustang dyno) from another shop and try it. 40x WHP with just the midpipe/catback and the PS1C kit is amazing.
I cannot see any way possible the car could make 450 WHP regardless of timing, even at 10 PSI, with just the P1SC kit, midpipe, and catback. Your talking 30+ WHPmore than my car without longtubes, cams, throttle body, and plenum, espcially with a a/f ratio in the 10s and light timing. There is simply no way the intercooler is making that much difference (with light timing it really shouldn't be making any difference).
Not trying to **** you off or anything, but your numbers are at least 20-30 WHP higher than anyone else I have seen with simliar mods.
I cannot agree with you more on the tuning issue though. Its ALL in the tune. I would never ever trust my wimpy stock shortblock to a generic tune from kb/vortech etc etc. I refused to let several local tuners touch the car because they had not tuned a FI 2v before, and I definatly don't want to be the one that throws his shortblock out on the floor first.
No matter WHAT you do, NEVER EVER go WOT on a FI 2v unless you have checked the a/f ratio first. I drove 2+ hours with the FI setup to the dyno, never getting over 1/2 throttle or 3000 RPM just to be safe. It might be very very tempting, but engines are expensive.
