No cats, dummy O2's Question
05-31-2007, 10:01 PM
#11
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 1,218
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
ORIGINAL: shamntgmry@yahoo.com
No you dont need to let your car warm up just as long as the oil pressure comes all the way up before you drive!
No you dont need to let your car warm up just as long as the oil pressure comes all the way up before you drive!
Take a look at my post.... That is my opinion..... You do whatever you want to do..... Because I always try to let my car warm up in the NORMAL range before I drive it.
06-01-2007, 06:23 AM
#12
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
ORIGINAL: svt_97cobra
[hr]
Take a look at my post.... That is my opinion..... You do whatever you want to do..... Because I always try to let my car warm up in the NORMAL range before I drive it.
ORIGINAL: shamntgmry@yahoo.com
No you dont need to let your car warm up just as long as the oil pressure comes all the way up before you drive!
No you dont need to let your car warm up just as long as the oil pressure comes all the way up before you drive!
[hr]
Take a look at my post.... That is my opinion..... You do whatever you want to do..... Because I always try to let my car warm up in the NORMAL range before I drive it.
06-01-2007, 07:25 AM
#13
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
ORIGINAL: Derf00
actually, rough idle on a cold start without O2 sensors is counter intuitive as the car starts up on a an open loop meaning it ignores the sensors for the first 30 seconds to a minute. Now if you're talking after that time frame 5-10 minutes, then yes it would make sense as the car is looking at the O2 sensors to get data to adjust A/F properly. If there is no signal it will continue to run rich until the coolant temp sensor gets warm enough to start sending data and have some of the adjustments made. Without the O2 sensors at all though the car will have a tendancy to run rich so of course your gas mileage will suck.
You can run without the O2 sensors but you should have the car tuned on a dyno with a handheld to have the A/F adjusted across the board.
If you want to put the O2 sensors back in, you only need two of them (front ones) and have Elimator O2 sensors put in for the rear ones so you don't have a bunch of codes thrown up. You do not need to put the cats in first.
ORIGINAL: hochness
On a previous post I asked if no o2 sensors just dummy plugs would cause a rough idle and hesitation on cold starts. The answer was YES, MOST DEF! I called Ford to ask them about it and they told me the same, but they said that I would have to have the Cats put back in before I put the O2's back in otherwise I'll get codes left and right. Surprisingly the car aint throwing any codes right now. It is just a rough idle on cold starts and hesitation (feels like it's pulling a 10,000 pound trailer ) till it warms up. I've also replaced the Coolant Temp sensor and it seemed to help a little bit. Is there only 1 sensor or 2?????
My question is....Do I need to put the Cats back in before I can put the O2's back in? Or are the dummy plugs there for a reason and just leave them alone.
I'll be honest, I'm fed up with this car. I've put in almost $2000 in trying to make this thing run smooth. It was VERY bad for a whilebut had gotten better for a period (after coolant sensor replacement)but is getting VERY BAD gas mileage (14 mpg). I'm considering trading it on a Hyundia Accent this weekend. I don't want to but I can't keep letting it run for 5-10 minuets to warm up to get past the bad idle start before I drive away, it's costing way to much money.
Any ideas????
Thanks, Sam
On a previous post I asked if no o2 sensors just dummy plugs would cause a rough idle and hesitation on cold starts. The answer was YES, MOST DEF! I called Ford to ask them about it and they told me the same, but they said that I would have to have the Cats put back in before I put the O2's back in otherwise I'll get codes left and right. Surprisingly the car aint throwing any codes right now. It is just a rough idle on cold starts and hesitation (feels like it's pulling a 10,000 pound trailer ) till it warms up. I've also replaced the Coolant Temp sensor and it seemed to help a little bit. Is there only 1 sensor or 2?????
My question is....Do I need to put the Cats back in before I can put the O2's back in? Or are the dummy plugs there for a reason and just leave them alone.
I'll be honest, I'm fed up with this car. I've put in almost $2000 in trying to make this thing run smooth. It was VERY bad for a whilebut had gotten better for a period (after coolant sensor replacement)but is getting VERY BAD gas mileage (14 mpg). I'm considering trading it on a Hyundia Accent this weekend. I don't want to but I can't keep letting it run for 5-10 minuets to warm up to get past the bad idle start before I drive away, it's costing way to much money.
Any ideas????
Thanks, Sam
You can run without the O2 sensors but you should have the car tuned on a dyno with a handheld to have the A/F adjusted across the board.
If you want to put the O2 sensors back in, you only need two of them (front ones) and have Elimator O2 sensors put in for the rear ones so you don't have a bunch of codes thrown up. You do not need to put the cats in first.
is this what the original poster is saying? Off road pipes should NOT be deleting the front O2 sensors, if you have removed the fronts its no wonder your getting **** milage and problems.
Just FYI, an o/r pipe with the front sensors installed and the rear sensors on MIL eliminators should cause NO problems with drivablity or rough idle etc etc. You should not be able to tell the differnece at all in the car other than the sound and slight power increase from stock.
The rear 02 sensors have absolutly nothing to do with the way the car runs. I can't beileve the thing even starts/runs without the fronts installed though, and you have to be losing power and MPG if you don't have em installed. What kind of ghetto midpipe did you get with no O2 bungs?
06-01-2007, 11:04 AM
#14
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 55
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
the car will run like total *** if you have absolutly no sensors in at all.
is this what the original poster is saying? Off road pipes should NOT be deleting the front O2 sensors, if you have removed the fronts its no wonder your getting **** milage and problems.
Just FYI, an o/r pipe with the front sensors installed and the rear sensors on MIL eliminators should cause NO problems with drivablity or rough idle etc etc. You should not be able to tell the differnece at all in the car other than the sound and slight power increase from stock.
The rear 02 sensors have absolutly nothing to do with the way the car runs. I can't beileve the thing even starts/runs without the fronts installed though, and you have to be losing power and MPG if you don't have em installed. What kind of ghetto midpipe did you get with no O2 bungs?
ORIGINAL: Derf00
actually, rough idle on a cold start without O2 sensors is counter intuitive as the car starts up on a an open loop meaning it ignores the sensors for the first 30 seconds to a minute. Now if you're talking after that time frame 5-10 minutes, then yes it would make sense as the car is looking at the O2 sensors to get data to adjust A/F properly. If there is no signal it will continue to run rich until the coolant temp sensor gets warm enough to start sending data and have some of the adjustments made. Without the O2 sensors at all though the car will have a tendancy to run rich so of course your gas mileage will suck.
You can run without the O2 sensors but you should have the car tuned on a dyno with a handheld to have the A/F adjusted across the board.
If you want to put the O2 sensors back in, you only need two of them (front ones) and have Elimator O2 sensors put in for the rear ones so you don't have a bunch of codes thrown up. You do not need to put the cats in first.
ORIGINAL: hochness
On a previous post I asked if no o2 sensors just dummy plugs would cause a rough idle and hesitation on cold starts. The answer was YES, MOST DEF! I called Ford to ask them about it and they told me the same, but they said that I would have to have the Cats put back in before I put the O2's back in otherwise I'll get codes left and right. Surprisingly the car aint throwing any codes right now. It is just a rough idle on cold starts and hesitation (feels like it's pulling a 10,000 pound trailer ) till it warms up. I've also replaced the Coolant Temp sensor and it seemed to help a little bit. Is there only 1 sensor or 2?????
My question is....Do I need to put the Cats back in before I can put the O2's back in? Or are the dummy plugs there for a reason and just leave them alone.
I'll be honest, I'm fed up with this car. I've put in almost $2000 in trying to make this thing run smooth. It was VERY bad for a whilebut had gotten better for a period (after coolant sensor replacement)but is getting VERY BAD gas mileage (14 mpg). I'm considering trading it on a Hyundia Accent this weekend. I don't want to but I can't keep letting it run for 5-10 minuets to warm up to get past the bad idle start before I drive away, it's costing way to much money.
Any ideas????
Thanks, Sam
On a previous post I asked if no o2 sensors just dummy plugs would cause a rough idle and hesitation on cold starts. The answer was YES, MOST DEF! I called Ford to ask them about it and they told me the same, but they said that I would have to have the Cats put back in before I put the O2's back in otherwise I'll get codes left and right. Surprisingly the car aint throwing any codes right now. It is just a rough idle on cold starts and hesitation (feels like it's pulling a 10,000 pound trailer ) till it warms up. I've also replaced the Coolant Temp sensor and it seemed to help a little bit. Is there only 1 sensor or 2?????
My question is....Do I need to put the Cats back in before I can put the O2's back in? Or are the dummy plugs there for a reason and just leave them alone.
I'll be honest, I'm fed up with this car. I've put in almost $2000 in trying to make this thing run smooth. It was VERY bad for a whilebut had gotten better for a period (after coolant sensor replacement)but is getting VERY BAD gas mileage (14 mpg). I'm considering trading it on a Hyundia Accent this weekend. I don't want to but I can't keep letting it run for 5-10 minuets to warm up to get past the bad idle start before I drive away, it's costing way to much money.
Any ideas????
Thanks, Sam
You can run without the O2 sensors but you should have the car tuned on a dyno with a handheld to have the A/F adjusted across the board.
If you want to put the O2 sensors back in, you only need two of them (front ones) and have Elimator O2 sensors put in for the rear ones so you don't have a bunch of codes thrown up. You do not need to put the cats in first.
is this what the original poster is saying? Off road pipes should NOT be deleting the front O2 sensors, if you have removed the fronts its no wonder your getting **** milage and problems.
Just FYI, an o/r pipe with the front sensors installed and the rear sensors on MIL eliminators should cause NO problems with drivablity or rough idle etc etc. You should not be able to tell the differnece at all in the car other than the sound and slight power increase from stock.
The rear 02 sensors have absolutly nothing to do with the way the car runs. I can't beileve the thing even starts/runs without the fronts installed though, and you have to be losing power and MPG if you don't have em installed. What kind of ghetto midpipe did you get with no O2 bungs?
Thanks for all the help guys, I didn't remove the O2 sensors. I haven't done any mods to this car. The kid that I bought it from had a friend who's dad was a mechanic and so on and so on.....The car started running like a bag of farts on cold starts. It has a rough idle and hesitation and then now some surging till it warms up. I took it in to a mechanic and spent $900 trying to figure it out. All they told me was let the car warm up for 10 min. They also said that because of all the mods the computer is not able to keep up with the mods. I don't believe that and I'm out $900 on that particular trip to the mechanic. This same mechanic told me that there are dummy O2 sensors in place of the originals. I don't know if that's true or not. I haven't had a chance yet to get up under the car and take them out to see. So I'm just going by the word of the mechanic that all 4 O2 sensors are dummies.
Sam
06-03-2007, 01:15 AM
#15
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 55
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
Hey, just an update all....I put on the new O2's up front and the car doesn't run rich anymore and it seems to be more punchy. It was an absolute joy to drive it when I got up this morning. I will be 100% convinced after about a week of normal use.
Thanks again for all the help.
Sam
Thanks again for all the help.
Sam
06-03-2007, 08:18 AM
#16
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
So did it, or did it not, have front O2 sensors? [/align][/align]Also, it sounds to me as though you need to find a different mechanic(s)--these cars are not that difficult to troubleshoot if you have the factory manuals and proper tools. $900 to do nothing except tell you to let the car warm up is absurd, particulalrly when it appears all you needed was a couple of O2 sensors.[/align][/align]The guys you've been going to seem to enjoying seeing you coming...[/align]
06-04-2007, 10:52 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Posts: 55
RE: No cats, dummy O2's Question
Yes, there were O2's on the front. I left the rears alone, didn't look at them.This mechanic shop used to have a really good mechanic there that took care of my 91 LX 5.0, but then he left for some reason and I wasn't aware of him leaving when I took my 2000 GT to this shop and asked where he was. I don't know of another good mechanic around here so now I've got myself a Haynes and a Chiltons repair manual (which actually didn't help much).
Now, I've got to figure out what's making a whinning sound at highway speed.
Sam
Now, I've got to figure out what's making a whinning sound at highway speed.
Sam
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