Which supercharger?
02-03-2008, 03:52 PM
#21
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RE: Which supercharger?
People can argue day in and out on which is actually better at lubricating the blower, but in the end they both do their jobs just fine. A self contained unit is an easier install, less evasive install, and is way easier to reverse the process if you decide to remove/sell the blower. Like stated before, if you don't have to drill, then why do it.
02-03-2008, 04:31 PM
#22
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RE: Which supercharger?
ORIGINAL: tbirdscwd
People can argue day in and out on which is actually better at lubricating the blower, but in the end they both do their jobs just fine. A self contained unit is an easier install, less evasive install, and is way easier to reverse the process if you decide to remove/sell the blower. Like stated before, if you don't have to drill, then why do it.
People can argue day in and out on which is actually better at lubricating the blower, but in the end they both do their jobs just fine. A self contained unit is an easier install, less evasive install, and is way easier to reverse the process if you decide to remove/sell the blower. Like stated before, if you don't have to drill, then why do it.
While the self contained unit might save you a couple of hours on install, remember that you have to take the whole unit off of the bracket to change the oil (at least thats the way that procharger people explained it to me) so while it might save you a couple hours on install, each time you change the oil (every 5,000miles) you have to take another hour or so to do it. I personally like the idea of changing the supercharger oil every time I change the engine oil. and lastly, I haven't seen any heavy duty racers, especially feature cars, using the self contained units. Most of the guys that are featured in magazines and what not use the oil fed blowers, so maybe they know something we don't
02-03-2008, 06:28 PM
#23
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RE: Which supercharger?
Changing the oil in the headunit can be a PITA, and there isn't more than an extra 20 minutes of install time tapping the pan.
everyone that has not done it brings up tapping the pan like its a huge deal... it is not. so far as removing the unit to sell... its easy to fix. You simply put a pipe plug in where the hose connects to.
everyone that has not done it brings up tapping the pan like its a huge deal... it is not. so far as removing the unit to sell... its easy to fix. You simply put a pipe plug in where the hose connects to.
02-03-2008, 06:30 PM
#24
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RE: Which supercharger?
I will say its almost all about personal preference. I like that my engine oil is seperate from my SC oil. Thats just me. It takes a total of 10 minutes to take my procharger off, so I don't mind doing it every 5-6 thousand miles. As far as high HP applications and featured car not having self oiled blowers. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Think of every KB, Procharger, Whipple, and Eaton you've ever seen in a magazine. You might not see a lot of self contained centris, because the only company (until the recent release of Paxtons new design) Procharger is the only company that offers self oiling. I have seen plenty of P-1 and D-1 making gobs of power and have seen them in many Mags. What about the Livernois 700rwhp 3v on a procharger F-1 thats been featured like 20 f-in times.
02-03-2008, 06:30 PM
#25
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RE: Which supercharger?
Yeah but whats wrong with running the same oil in a supercharger... its just a gearbox floating in the breeze.The roots blowers are self contained as well. I would say there isnt a cooling issue... the supercharger is isolated from the big heat sources under hood. It probably sees less the 300F. Also there isn't exhaust or gasoline blow-by to blow into the oil, so it doesnt become contaminated like engine oil does.
If i was installing a Vortech on my own car, I would probably take my chances with plugging the oil lines and just running clean synthetic engine oil... probably. Drillin the oil pan seems unnecessary. You could fix it to sell, but why.
If i was installing a Vortech on my own car, I would probably take my chances with plugging the oil lines and just running clean synthetic engine oil... probably. Drillin the oil pan seems unnecessary. You could fix it to sell, but why.
02-03-2008, 06:44 PM
#26
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RE: Which supercharger?
ORIGINAL: ottos
Yeah but whats wrong with running the same oil in a supercharger... its just a gearbox floating in the breeze.The roots blowers are self contained as well. I would say there isnt a cooling issue... the supercharger is isolated from the big heat sources under hood. It probably sees less the 300F. Also there isn't exhaust or gasoline blow-by to blow into the oil, so it doesnt become contaminated like engine oil does.
If i was installing a Vortech on my own car, I would probably take my chances with plugging the oil lines and just running clean synthetic engine oil... probably. Drillin the oil pan seems unnecessary. You could fix it to sell, but why.
Yeah but whats wrong with running the same oil in a supercharger... its just a gearbox floating in the breeze.The roots blowers are self contained as well. I would say there isnt a cooling issue... the supercharger is isolated from the big heat sources under hood. It probably sees less the 300F. Also there isn't exhaust or gasoline blow-by to blow into the oil, so it doesnt become contaminated like engine oil does.
If i was installing a Vortech on my own car, I would probably take my chances with plugging the oil lines and just running clean synthetic engine oil... probably. Drillin the oil pan seems unnecessary. You could fix it to sell, but why.
As far as the engine oil contaminateing the supercharger oil, I know that my oil feed line comes from the oil filter housing, so it gets filtered before it goes up to the blower. Either way, it all boils down to personal preference, and I will say that I am super lazy, so thats why I don't want to be taking the blower off and putting it back on every 5-6 thousand miles. I have had my blower on my car for 41,000 miles and its making just as much horsepower now as it was two years ago when it was put on.
I don't know enough about the self containted units to comment on their reliability, I'll just say that mine has lasted for41,000 miles and is still performing like the day it was put on, in my opinion, thats pretty reliable. If you guys say that the procharger's and all the other self contained units are just as reliable, Ill take your word for it. again, its all what you want from the car.
02-03-2008, 07:38 PM
#27
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RE: Which supercharger?
Im **** about keeping stock parts. So you're right, its preference. I probably wouldnt change centri supercharger oil that often for my application. I'd just check and see if its still clean. I wonder how much stress a little two-gear gearbox really endures. It would have to be designed pretty crappy to fail in this application.
Good discussion anyways.
Good discussion anyways.
02-03-2008, 07:44 PM
#28
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RE: Which supercharger?
ORIGINAL: ottos
Yeah but whats wrong with running the same oil in a supercharger... its just a gearbox floating in the breeze.The roots blowers are self contained as well. I would say there isnt a cooling issue... the supercharger is isolated from the big heat sources under hood. It probably sees less the 300F. Also there isn't exhaust or gasoline blow-by to blow into the oil, so it doesnt become contaminated like engine oil does.
If i was installing a Vortech on my own car, I would probably take my chances with plugging the oil lines and just running clean synthetic engine oil... probably. Drillin the oil pan seems unnecessary. You could fix it to sell, but why.
Yeah but whats wrong with running the same oil in a supercharger... its just a gearbox floating in the breeze.The roots blowers are self contained as well. I would say there isnt a cooling issue... the supercharger is isolated from the big heat sources under hood. It probably sees less the 300F. Also there isn't exhaust or gasoline blow-by to blow into the oil, so it doesnt become contaminated like engine oil does.
If i was installing a Vortech on my own car, I would probably take my chances with plugging the oil lines and just running clean synthetic engine oil... probably. Drillin the oil pan seems unnecessary. You could fix it to sell, but why.
Engine oil is not getting to 300 degrees.. at least it better not be. I have no real evidence, but I would have to say that the supercharger is every bit as hot after a run as the engine oil would be... compressing air makes alot of heat.
I like the idea of a non self contained unit. Much more oil to circulate, and its getting filtered so if there is dirt in there somehow its getting filtered out with the rest of the engine oil. Not only that, but since you have a oil pan with a resivour the oil has time to cool between each cycle it goes thru.
You don't "drill" the pan btw... you use a punch and then tap a large surface area. The vortech units already come with a fitting, acutally a small reducer, that goes into the threads you make in the pan. it would take about 5 minutes to remove the vortech oil return and then put a pipe plug in it.
As much as procharger wants to make everyone believe the reason for self contained units was that they are better, it is not. The reason they were invented was for difficult to install/tight engine compartment applications where routing a oil return line would be a major PITA. This is why you see so many strange applications running prochargers, stuff like the small block dakotas etc.
EDIT: Havinga self contained/non contained unit never really entered into my thoughts when choosing a blower. i can say that if I had intended to NEVER rebuild the shortblock I would have gone with a PS1C setup (that and if MPH offered one) simply because it comes with the intercooler etc already, and that blower/cooler is more than enough to out power the stock shortblock if you want (but not really enough when you go to rebuilding).
02-03-2008, 11:04 PM
#29
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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RE: Which supercharger?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
If you "took your chances" and just plugged the lines and then filled the unit, it would last about 10 seconds under boost before going boom. It does not have a oil storage area or a design that will pump oil. The vortech units are fed oil directly from a already present point on the filter assembly, after the oil has been thru the engine filter. Idunno about any else's engine, but when I pull my oil every 2500-3000 miles, my synthetic looks like it did when I installed it. If your getting major contamination and discolration, espcially in the synthetic, you have engine problems.
Engine oil is not getting to 300 degrees.. at least it better not be. I have no real evidence, but I would have to say that the supercharger is every bit as hot after a run as the engine oil would be... compressing air makes alot of heat.
I like the idea of a non self contained unit. Much more oil to circulate, and its getting filtered so if there is dirt in there somehow its getting filtered out with the rest of the engine oil. Not only that, but since you have a oil pan with a resivour the oil has time to cool between each cycle it goes thru.
You don't "drill" the pan btw... you use a punch and then tap a large surface area. The vortech units already come with a fitting, acutally a small reducer, that goes into the threads you make in the pan. it would take about 5 minutes to remove the vortech oil return and then put a pipe plug in it.
As much as procharger wants to make everyone believe the reason for self contained units was that they are better, it is not. The reason they were invented was for difficult to install/tight engine compartment applications where routing a oil return line would be a major PITA. This is why you see so many strange applications running prochargers, stuff like the small block dakotas etc.
EDIT: Havinga self contained/non contained unit never really entered into my thoughts when choosing a blower. i can say that if I had intended to NEVER rebuild the shortblock I would have gone with a PS1C setup (that and if MPH offered one) simply because it comes with the intercooler etc already, and that blower/cooler is more than enough to out power the stock shortblock if you want (but not really enough when you go to rebuilding).
If you "took your chances" and just plugged the lines and then filled the unit, it would last about 10 seconds under boost before going boom. It does not have a oil storage area or a design that will pump oil. The vortech units are fed oil directly from a already present point on the filter assembly, after the oil has been thru the engine filter. Idunno about any else's engine, but when I pull my oil every 2500-3000 miles, my synthetic looks like it did when I installed it. If your getting major contamination and discolration, espcially in the synthetic, you have engine problems.
Engine oil is not getting to 300 degrees.. at least it better not be. I have no real evidence, but I would have to say that the supercharger is every bit as hot after a run as the engine oil would be... compressing air makes alot of heat.
I like the idea of a non self contained unit. Much more oil to circulate, and its getting filtered so if there is dirt in there somehow its getting filtered out with the rest of the engine oil. Not only that, but since you have a oil pan with a resivour the oil has time to cool between each cycle it goes thru.
You don't "drill" the pan btw... you use a punch and then tap a large surface area. The vortech units already come with a fitting, acutally a small reducer, that goes into the threads you make in the pan. it would take about 5 minutes to remove the vortech oil return and then put a pipe plug in it.
As much as procharger wants to make everyone believe the reason for self contained units was that they are better, it is not. The reason they were invented was for difficult to install/tight engine compartment applications where routing a oil return line would be a major PITA. This is why you see so many strange applications running prochargers, stuff like the small block dakotas etc.
EDIT: Havinga self contained/non contained unit never really entered into my thoughts when choosing a blower. i can say that if I had intended to NEVER rebuild the shortblock I would have gone with a PS1C setup (that and if MPH offered one) simply because it comes with the intercooler etc already, and that blower/cooler is more than enough to out power the stock shortblock if you want (but not really enough when you go to rebuilding).
Engine oil will get contaminated and discolored eventually, but yes if you are changing it at 3k you wont see much of a color change. There is normal blow-by gases from each cylinder which is absorbed by the oil, turning it brown. Doesn't mean there is an issue with the motor.
Compressing air to 15 psi doesnt really generate a lot of heat by comparison. Maybe 170F or something. My bicycle pump probably gets hotter pumping 65 psi. My point is that a centri is more isolated from the engine so it stays cool. Why use an external source of oil? Just fill 'er up with Mobil 1 and go.
02-04-2008, 03:01 AM
#30
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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RE: Which supercharger?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
and that blower/cooler is more than enough to out power the stock shortblock if you want (but not really enough when you go to rebuilding).
and that blower/cooler is more than enough to out power the stock shortblock if you want (but not really enough when you go to rebuilding).