how to tap the oil pan?
04-07-2008, 04:40 PM
#21
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: undecided.steve
Both methods are acceptable as long as they are done carefully.
Obviously you can't drill the hole full size because there will be nothing to tap with the same size tap.
The guy seems nervous and if he has not done this before, he stands a better chance of getting it correct with the right sized drill.
The problem with the punch is chances are he is going to use the wrong one, hit it too hard because the pan "feels like thick metal, it's not" and then he is done for.
Dial calipers is a great idea but chances are he doesn't have a set and may not know how to use them properly.
I've done it both ways and personally for an experienced person the punch is the way to go.
For an inexperienced person, assuming the correct size drill bit is supplied etc drilling is easier.
I use a washer like the other said as well BTW
Just my 2 cents.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Once again, we manage to have a bunch of people with no idea about what they are talking about posting opinions and not facts.
You can NOT drill the hole (full size) for the tap. If you drill the hole in the pan the correct size for the tap, your going to be replacing your oil pan. Drilling the hole will result in you getting about a 1/2 thread and nothing more, as the pan is very thin.
I did not use a drill at all, and I would not. Start with a starter punch, and then work your way up to the correct size. I used a starter punch to start the hole, and as it was tapered got it to about 1/2 size, then used a much larger tapered punch to finish the hole.
The easiest way to get the hole the correct size IMO is to use a dial caliper and measure the punch to find the correct spot in the taper where the hole is the right size, and then mark all the way around it with a marker. Tap the punch in (lightly/easily) until it reaches this point, and walla.
Once again, if you use a drill the connection WILL leak and it will NOT last. You will be pouring return oil out of hte connection, if it doesn't fall out alltogether. IMO there is no reason to use a bit at all, if the punch you are using will not put a hole in the pan your using the wrong punch.
Once again, we manage to have a bunch of people with no idea about what they are talking about posting opinions and not facts.
You can NOT drill the hole (full size) for the tap. If you drill the hole in the pan the correct size for the tap, your going to be replacing your oil pan. Drilling the hole will result in you getting about a 1/2 thread and nothing more, as the pan is very thin.
I did not use a drill at all, and I would not. Start with a starter punch, and then work your way up to the correct size. I used a starter punch to start the hole, and as it was tapered got it to about 1/2 size, then used a much larger tapered punch to finish the hole.
The easiest way to get the hole the correct size IMO is to use a dial caliper and measure the punch to find the correct spot in the taper where the hole is the right size, and then mark all the way around it with a marker. Tap the punch in (lightly/easily) until it reaches this point, and walla.
Once again, if you use a drill the connection WILL leak and it will NOT last. You will be pouring return oil out of hte connection, if it doesn't fall out alltogether. IMO there is no reason to use a bit at all, if the punch you are using will not put a hole in the pan your using the wrong punch.
Obviously you can't drill the hole full size because there will be nothing to tap with the same size tap.
The guy seems nervous and if he has not done this before, he stands a better chance of getting it correct with the right sized drill.
The problem with the punch is chances are he is going to use the wrong one, hit it too hard because the pan "feels like thick metal, it's not" and then he is done for.
Dial calipers is a great idea but chances are he doesn't have a set and may not know how to use them properly.
I've done it both ways and personally for an experienced person the punch is the way to go.
For an inexperienced person, assuming the correct size drill bit is supplied etc drilling is easier.
I use a washer like the other said as well BTW
Just my 2 cents.
You CAN NOT use a drill. If you use a drill, your going to end up with about 1/2 a thread. The pan is VERY thin. Tapping the pan using only the thickness of the pan and no more WILL result in leaks, and it WILL not work
You MUST use a punch unless your going to do something crazy like the other guy said, that is removing the pan and putting a nut on the back.
When you use the punch, you are not just making ahole.. you are pushing the material back, and creating a MUCH larger surface to tap. Instead of just removing the pan material, it pushes it inside the pan, and you end up plenty of metal.
Think of it this way, lets say your looking straight into the hole. With a drill, you will see nothing but a hole, with a very thin wall to it. With the punch, you will see what looks like a tornado from the top down... a cone of material punched back into the pan.
This material is what you tap. If you have not done this/read the vortech/paxton manual DO NOT sit here and say it can be done another way... it cannot.
04-07-2008, 04:57 PM
#22
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: jlg32281
Please don't tell me you're going to super charge your car without forging the bottom end. I assumed you had the block out of the car to build it. If you're just slapping on a SC without forging it, we'll see you soon in the "How do I rebuild?" section. The bottom ends on these cars are quite wimpy and running a SC w/ out a forged bottom end is asking for a rebuild. Good luck.
Please don't tell me you're going to super charge your car without forging the bottom end. I assumed you had the block out of the car to build it. If you're just slapping on a SC without forging it, we'll see you soon in the "How do I rebuild?" section. The bottom ends on these cars are quite wimpy and running a SC w/ out a forged bottom end is asking for a rebuild. Good luck.
Once again, DO NOT DRILL THE PAN. It is not a problem of getting the hole the correct size, its a problem of getting enough surface area to tap.
If you all really need more evidence, instead of taking the word of people that have been there/done that, I can dig up the vortech manual or you can look it up online... its right there in black and white.
04-07-2008, 08:17 PM
#23
4th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,109
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
This is proof positive that nobody should be listening to you for tech advice. There are only about 25,000 mustang GTs running around just fine on the stock bottom end + boost, mine one of them (2+ years at 420WHP and going strong).
Once again, DO NOT DRILL THE PAN. It is not a problem of getting the hole the correct size, its a problem of getting enough surface area to tap.
If you all really need more evidence, instead of taking the word of people that have been there/done that, I can dig up the vortech manual or you can look it up online... its right there in black and white.
ORIGINAL: jlg32281
Please don't tell me you're going to super charge your car without forging the bottom end. I assumed you had the block out of the car to build it. If you're just slapping on a SC without forging it, we'll see you soon in the "How do I rebuild?" section. The bottom ends on these cars are quite wimpy and running a SC w/ out a forged bottom end is asking for a rebuild. Good luck.
Please don't tell me you're going to super charge your car without forging the bottom end. I assumed you had the block out of the car to build it. If you're just slapping on a SC without forging it, we'll see you soon in the "How do I rebuild?" section. The bottom ends on these cars are quite wimpy and running a SC w/ out a forged bottom end is asking for a rebuild. Good luck.
Once again, DO NOT DRILL THE PAN. It is not a problem of getting the hole the correct size, its a problem of getting enough surface area to tap.
If you all really need more evidence, instead of taking the word of people that have been there/done that, I can dig up the vortech manual or you can look it up online... its right there in black and white.
most 2valves are not forged unless they are seeing hp numbers upwards of 500 hp. the stock internals are fine up untill about 450. IMO you shouldnt even think about forging unless you want to go alot higer than that. its a waste of money.
04-07-2008, 10:37 PM
#24
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,031
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
You MUST use a punch unless your going to do something crazy like the other guy said, that is removing the pan and putting a nut on the back.
You MUST use a punch unless your going to do something crazy like the other guy said, that is removing the pan and putting a nut on the back.
Put a nut on the back, best to have it brazed on.
The Vortech manual says to use the punch, which was included in the last kit I did and it worked fine.
I'm just saying that is not the only way to do it.
04-08-2008, 01:07 AM
#25
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
I see no reason to pull the pan, and then weld on a nut which can then be broken off and fall into the pan... causing major destruction.
Do as the vortech manual says.. and NO drilling!
Do as the vortech manual says.. and NO drilling!
04-08-2008, 10:47 AM
#27
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,031
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: Burtonsnow157
shouldnt you use a step bit for this? ive seen this on supercharger install tutorials if i remember correctly
shouldnt you use a step bit for this? ive seen this on supercharger install tutorials if i remember correctly
If you drill, you CANNOT tap because of the lack of metal which will leave you with something like one or 2 threads and this is not enough for a solid attachment point.
My contention is that most noobs will wack the thing like the hammers of hell and at that point it's all over with because the pan will have to come out.
Assuming the hole is punched correctly, the other problem is that now you are effectively tapping into the cone of metal left by the punch and this metal is not a thick square'd up edge like say tapping a drilled hole in a 1/2 inch block of steel.
You are effectively tapping the rolled over side of the pan which is now pushed into the hole.
Certainly much better than trying to tap a very thin piece of metal left by drilling a hole, but still not a real clean. precise way of doing it.
The manufacturers of these systems had to come up with a mostly idiot proof method of installing the oiling line and the punch method is what they chose.
It's the best overall method, but for accuracy, solidity and strangth a drilled hole with a nut brazed is best IMHO.
As for the nut falling off, it's highly unlikely unless the person doing th brazing is a butcher.
The same could be said of the normal drain hole as well which on some cars is just an insert.
I reread my original post and because I was trying to address all the questions at once my writing got all mixed up and I jumped from punching, to drilling, to tapping etc all in one swoop which was NOT what I intended to do. I was trying to offer the the advantages and disadvantages of the various methods having done it both ways several times.
As for building up the bottom of the motor, I misread the OP.
For some reason I had 450hp in my mind and thought that was what he was looking for.
The bottom of these motors is pretty good and with a sane amount of boost and keeping the abise to a miniumum the motor will last a long time.
However, even in that case it doesn't hurt to beef things up. It's not a requirement however as we all know many, many, many of our cars run blowers with no problems at all.
Sorry for the misread.
I think we all basically agree and a lot of good points have come out of this thread.
04-22-2008, 06:24 PM
#28
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: undecided.steve
You can, but 200GT4.6 is correct the *overall best way* is to punch the pan with the correct punch and with the punch marked for depth.
If you drill, you CANNOT tap because of the lack of metal which will leave you with something like one or 2 threads and this is not enough for a solid attachment point.
My contention is that most noobs will wack the thing like the hammers of hell and at that point it's all over with because the pan will have to come out.
Assuming the hole is punched correctly, the other problem is that now you are effectively tapping into the cone of metal left by the punch and this metal is not a thick square'd up edge like say tapping a drilled hole in a 1/2 inch block of steel.
You are effectively tapping the rolled over side of the pan which is now pushed into the hole.
Certainly much better than trying to tap a very thin piece of metal left by drilling a hole, but still not a real clean. precise way of doing it.
The manufacturers of these systems had to come up with a mostly idiot proof method of installing the oiling line and the punch method is what they chose.
It's the best overall method, but for accuracy, solidity and strangth a drilled hole with a nut brazed is best IMHO.
As for the nut falling off, it's highly unlikely unless the person doing th brazing is a butcher.
The same could be said of the normal drain hole as well which on some cars is just an insert.
I reread my original post and because I was trying to address all the questions at once my writing got all mixed up and I jumped from punching, to drilling, to tapping etc all in one swoop which was NOT what I intended to do. I was trying to offer the the advantages and disadvantages of the various methods having done it both ways several times.
As for building up the bottom of the motor, I misread the OP.
For some reason I had 450hp in my mind and thought that was what he was looking for.
The bottom of these motors is pretty good and with a sane amount of boost and keeping the abise to a miniumum the motor will last a long time.
However, even in that case it doesn't hurt to beef things up. It's not a requirement however as we all know many, many, many of our cars run blowers with no problems at all.
Sorry for the misread.
I think we all basically agree and a lot of good points have come out of this thread.
ORIGINAL: Burtonsnow157
shouldnt you use a step bit for this? ive seen this on supercharger install tutorials if i remember correctly
shouldnt you use a step bit for this? ive seen this on supercharger install tutorials if i remember correctly
If you drill, you CANNOT tap because of the lack of metal which will leave you with something like one or 2 threads and this is not enough for a solid attachment point.
My contention is that most noobs will wack the thing like the hammers of hell and at that point it's all over with because the pan will have to come out.
Assuming the hole is punched correctly, the other problem is that now you are effectively tapping into the cone of metal left by the punch and this metal is not a thick square'd up edge like say tapping a drilled hole in a 1/2 inch block of steel.
You are effectively tapping the rolled over side of the pan which is now pushed into the hole.
Certainly much better than trying to tap a very thin piece of metal left by drilling a hole, but still not a real clean. precise way of doing it.
The manufacturers of these systems had to come up with a mostly idiot proof method of installing the oiling line and the punch method is what they chose.
It's the best overall method, but for accuracy, solidity and strangth a drilled hole with a nut brazed is best IMHO.
As for the nut falling off, it's highly unlikely unless the person doing th brazing is a butcher.
The same could be said of the normal drain hole as well which on some cars is just an insert.
I reread my original post and because I was trying to address all the questions at once my writing got all mixed up and I jumped from punching, to drilling, to tapping etc all in one swoop which was NOT what I intended to do. I was trying to offer the the advantages and disadvantages of the various methods having done it both ways several times.
As for building up the bottom of the motor, I misread the OP.
For some reason I had 450hp in my mind and thought that was what he was looking for.
The bottom of these motors is pretty good and with a sane amount of boost and keeping the abise to a miniumum the motor will last a long time.
However, even in that case it doesn't hurt to beef things up. It's not a requirement however as we all know many, many, many of our cars run blowers with no problems at all.
Sorry for the misread.
I think we all basically agree and a lot of good points have come out of this thread.
Its precise enough that almost every vortech install you have ever seen has it this way. its hard to screw up unless you have no mechanical knowledge at all... in which case what exactly are you doing installing a supercharger?
Lets put it this way, if you can't get this procedure right (centerpunch, punch, tap, install) then you certianly don't have the skills to get the oil pan out and then braze on a nut....
04-22-2008, 09:58 PM
#30
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: how to tap the oil pan?
ORIGINAL: highroller02
thanks for the good info 2000gt4.6, so is possiablewithout draining the oil and taking the pan off?
thanks for the good info 2000gt4.6, so is possiablewithout draining the oil and taking the pan off?
I did it, using a LOT of heavy grease on the tap, and then I acutally poured a few quarts of oil down into the engine (overfilling it) and then drained it all and changed the oil. you should not get any chips etc in the pan but its possible, so change the oil.
I also ran the blower for about 200 miles (to STL and back for dyno check) and changed it again just to make sure nothing from the install etc was in there, or intial wear on the new parts etc wasn't making metal in the oil.