adjusting the voltage on the tps
06-13-2008, 08:59 PM
#1
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 197
adjusting the voltage on the tps
Well I installed my acufab plenium and throttlebody. everything went on real easy accept the plastic tps unit. first off the old throttle body bolts holding it on was lock tight on with some kind of cement. so the screws striped out tring to loosen them. Had to take a dremel and make a slot through them to use a flat head to take them off they finaly broke free but was a b**** to un screw. figures everything else went on real easy no problem. so I got on the new throttle body and started setting the voltage for the tps. The directions say from .98 to 1.00 volts nothing less and nothing more. So I set for .988 started it and she idled at 1700 rpm and threw a check light on. Cleared the code and had to adjust it to .958 she idled perfect with and with out a/c. But i'm concerned because its not in the perameter that they said i should be in is this normal or ok. And did any body else have the same problem. Also took it for test drive and hitting second at 5800 rpm she stumbled. could not figure out why until I noticed that for some reason I unpluged the maf sensor and for got to plug back in repluged it and man throttle was krisp and ran perfect.
06-13-2008, 09:22 PM
#2
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
The instructions are full of crap, Accufabmust know this and should change it. I just got done working with another fellow who screwed up his TPS big time by filing out the screw holes trying to make this "adjustment".[/align][/align]There is no TPS adjustment possible or necessary for the EEC-V system. The EEC-V PCM reads the TPS output continuously and accepts the lowest value read as "closed throttle", since it knows the angular rate of change of the TPS' resistance it can easily calculate he throttle position from there.[/align][/align]From the '03 service manual
Did you/have you disconnected the battery to clear the KAM (Keep Alive Memory)? This is where all "learned" engine control values such as idle air, and short and long term fuel trims, etc. are stored. It should be cleared any time intake components are changed or even played with.
I apologise for the tone of this, however this persistent "adjust the TPS" stuff for the EEC-V systems is really getting annoying. As explained above this does NOTHING, as the PCM will adaptively and continuously learn what voltage corresponds to closed throttle.
Since you just paid a bunch of money for an Accufab setup maybe they will listen to you, send them a copy of this post and tell 'em they can duke it out with me here. They want to claim they've got the best TB/plenum on the market, but by propagating this crap they're doing a **** poor job of proving it...[/align]
Idle Speed Control Closed Throttle Determination [/align][/align]One of the fundamental criteria for entering rpm control is an indication of closed throttle. Throttle mode is always calculated to the lowest learned throttle position (TP) voltage seen since engine start. This lowest learned value is called "ratch," since the software acts like a one-way ratch.
The ratch value (voltage) is displayed as the TPREL PID. The ratch value is relearned after every engine start. Ratch will learn the lowest, steady TP voltage seen after the engine starts. In some cases, ratch can learn higher values of TP. The time to learn the higher values is significantly longer than the time to learn the lower values. The brakes must also be applied to learn the longer values.
All PCM functions are done using this ratch voltage, including idle speed control. The PCM goes into closed throttle mode when the TP voltage is at the ratch (TPREL PID) value. Increase in TP voltage, normally less than 0.05 volts, will put the PCM in part throttle mode. Throttle mode can be viewed by looking at the TP MODE PID. With the throttle closed, the PID must read C/T (closed throttle). Slightly corrupt values of ratch can prevent the PCM from entering closed throttle mode.
An incorrect part throttle indication at idle will prevent entry into closed throttle rpm control, and could result in a high idle. Ratch can be corrupted by a throttle position sensor or circuit that "drops out" or is noisy, or by loose/worn throttle plates that close tight during a decel and spring back at a normal engine vacuum
The ratch value (voltage) is displayed as the TPREL PID. The ratch value is relearned after every engine start. Ratch will learn the lowest, steady TP voltage seen after the engine starts. In some cases, ratch can learn higher values of TP. The time to learn the higher values is significantly longer than the time to learn the lower values. The brakes must also be applied to learn the longer values.
All PCM functions are done using this ratch voltage, including idle speed control. The PCM goes into closed throttle mode when the TP voltage is at the ratch (TPREL PID) value. Increase in TP voltage, normally less than 0.05 volts, will put the PCM in part throttle mode. Throttle mode can be viewed by looking at the TP MODE PID. With the throttle closed, the PID must read C/T (closed throttle). Slightly corrupt values of ratch can prevent the PCM from entering closed throttle mode.
An incorrect part throttle indication at idle will prevent entry into closed throttle rpm control, and could result in a high idle. Ratch can be corrupted by a throttle position sensor or circuit that "drops out" or is noisy, or by loose/worn throttle plates that close tight during a decel and spring back at a normal engine vacuum
I apologise for the tone of this, however this persistent "adjust the TPS" stuff for the EEC-V systems is really getting annoying. As explained above this does NOTHING, as the PCM will adaptively and continuously learn what voltage corresponds to closed throttle.
Since you just paid a bunch of money for an Accufab setup maybe they will listen to you, send them a copy of this post and tell 'em they can duke it out with me here. They want to claim they've got the best TB/plenum on the market, but by propagating this crap they're doing a **** poor job of proving it...[/align]
06-14-2008, 02:00 PM
#3
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,031
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
Well said Cliff!
When I installed the Accufab combo and read the instructions I was confused because the FSM clearly states that the TPS gets baselined at start up so it doesn't matter if you are counting from 50 to 100 or from 75 to 125. It's the same '50' count.
My Accufab combo went back because I couldn't fix the idle hang without a tune and I just didn't like the loss of low end torque that I experienced.
I have an automatic BTW.
I wonder how many people have screwed up their TPS by elongating the slots?
Also to the OP as with most Torx bolts, on a really tight one, you get ONE shot only before you strip it so the best thing to do is tap lightly while applying pressure to loosen it up. Using the correct bit is also important because sometimes more than one bit will appear to fit, but one of them will fit better than the other.
When I installed the Accufab combo and read the instructions I was confused because the FSM clearly states that the TPS gets baselined at start up so it doesn't matter if you are counting from 50 to 100 or from 75 to 125. It's the same '50' count.
My Accufab combo went back because I couldn't fix the idle hang without a tune and I just didn't like the loss of low end torque that I experienced.
I have an automatic BTW.
I wonder how many people have screwed up their TPS by elongating the slots?
Also to the OP as with most Torx bolts, on a really tight one, you get ONE shot only before you strip it so the best thing to do is tap lightly while applying pressure to loosen it up. Using the correct bit is also important because sometimes more than one bit will appear to fit, but one of them will fit better than the other.
06-14-2008, 02:22 PM
#4
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 609
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
the 86-95's are the only TPS that can be adjusted and should be set at .995 for optimal performance. The 1996-current are ODB-II current and are automatically controlled by the computer. It will relearn itself after the usual bettery unplug overnight and turning the A/C on full blast and then off, and then turning heat on ful blast and then off while in park or at idle. The TPS has no adj. Yoyu should have done what I did and used a screwdriver hammer/punch. It turn in a twisting motion when you hit it with a hammer. It's the only way to take those bolts out without stripping them if they are indeed that tight. Mine came out easy with one of those tools. $15 at autozone
06-14-2008, 02:50 PM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Posts: 1,143
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
you just need the ideal size phillips bit to take out the screws, and there is no adjustment for your tps, if its reading really low, and not getting enough voltage at WOT, then replace. I believe 4.5+ volts need to be read from the tps to be considered at 'wot'
06-14-2008, 03:00 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 197
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
wel first off they were not torx bolts. and even after making then a slot to use a flat head I had trouble breaking them free and even after they broke free very rough unscrewing them out all the way. And I have no hang time or loss of low end torque. its awesome.
ORIGINAL: undecided.steve
Well said Cliff!
When I installed the Accufab combo and read the instructions I was confused because the FSM clearly states that the TPS gets baselined at start up so it doesn't matter if you are counting from 50 to 100 or from 75 to 125. It's the same '50' count.
My Accufab combo went back because I couldn't fix the idle hang without a tune and I just didn't like the loss of low end torque that I experienced.
I have an automatic BTW.
I wonder how many people have screwed up their TPS by elongating the slots?
Also to the OP as with most Torx bolts, on a really tight one, you get ONE shot only before you strip it so the best thing to do is tap lightly while applying pressure to loosen it up. Using the correct bit is also important because sometimes more than one bit will appear to fit, but one of them will fit better than the other.
Well said Cliff!
When I installed the Accufab combo and read the instructions I was confused because the FSM clearly states that the TPS gets baselined at start up so it doesn't matter if you are counting from 50 to 100 or from 75 to 125. It's the same '50' count.
My Accufab combo went back because I couldn't fix the idle hang without a tune and I just didn't like the loss of low end torque that I experienced.
I have an automatic BTW.
I wonder how many people have screwed up their TPS by elongating the slots?
Also to the OP as with most Torx bolts, on a really tight one, you get ONE shot only before you strip it so the best thing to do is tap lightly while applying pressure to loosen it up. Using the correct bit is also important because sometimes more than one bit will appear to fit, but one of them will fit better than the other.
06-14-2008, 03:13 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 197
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
I don't know if it adjusts itself with the ORDB- II. I do know i set used a volt meter set it at .986 like it said in the manual and it idled around 1500 rpms I did unplug my battery for 15 minutes to clear the memory doesn"t need to be overnite. It still reved like around 1500 rpm so i brung down the volts to lower the rpms tried at .90 it lowered but not enough keep lowering little by little untill I was at a perfect 750 rpm range. Witch was about .955she idles perfect with or with out a/c on and no lag on return to idle either. Did noticed a more crisp throttle responce and seams to like a little more rpm before powerband dropping off.
ORIGINAL: RuffCat
the 86-95's are the only TPS that can be adjusted and should be set at .995 for optimal performance. The 1996-current are ODB-II current and are automatically controlled by the computer. It will relearn itself after the usual bettery unplug overnight and turning the A/C on full blast and then off, and then turning heat on ful blast and then off while in park or at idle. The TPS has no adj. Yoyu should have done what I did and used a screwdriver hammer/punch. It turn in a twisting motion when you hit it with a hammer. It's the only way to take those bolts out without stripping them if they are indeed that tight. Mine came out easy with one of those tools. $15 at autozone
the 86-95's are the only TPS that can be adjusted and should be set at .995 for optimal performance. The 1996-current are ODB-II current and are automatically controlled by the computer. It will relearn itself after the usual bettery unplug overnight and turning the A/C on full blast and then off, and then turning heat on ful blast and then off while in park or at idle. The TPS has no adj. Yoyu should have done what I did and used a screwdriver hammer/punch. It turn in a twisting motion when you hit it with a hammer. It's the only way to take those bolts out without stripping them if they are indeed that tight. Mine came out easy with one of those tools. $15 at autozone
06-15-2008, 11:55 AM
#8
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,031
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
ORIGINAL: dh04 red gt
wel first off they were not torx bolts. and even after making then a slot to use a flat head I had trouble breaking them free and even after they broke free very rough unscrewing them out all the way. And I have no hang time or loss of low end torque. its awesome.
wel first off they were not torx bolts. and even after making then a slot to use a flat head I had trouble breaking them free and even after they broke free very rough unscrewing them out all the way. And I have no hang time or loss of low end torque. its awesome.
ORIGINAL: undecided.steve
Well said Cliff!
When I installed the Accufab combo and read the instructions I was confused because the FSM clearly states that the TPS gets baselined at start up so it doesn't matter if you are counting from 50 to 100 or from 75 to 125. It's the same '50' count.
My Accufab combo went back because I couldn't fix the idle hang without a tune and I just didn't like the loss of low end torque that I experienced.
I have an automatic BTW.
I wonder how many people have screwed up their TPS by elongating the slots?
Also to the OP as with most Torx bolts, on a really tight one, you get ONE shot only before you strip it so the best thing to do is tap lightly while applying pressure to loosen it up. Using the correct bit is also important because sometimes more than one bit will appear to fit, but one of them will fit better than the other.
Well said Cliff!
When I installed the Accufab combo and read the instructions I was confused because the FSM clearly states that the TPS gets baselined at start up so it doesn't matter if you are counting from 50 to 100 or from 75 to 125. It's the same '50' count.
My Accufab combo went back because I couldn't fix the idle hang without a tune and I just didn't like the loss of low end torque that I experienced.
I have an automatic BTW.
I wonder how many people have screwed up their TPS by elongating the slots?
Also to the OP as with most Torx bolts, on a really tight one, you get ONE shot only before you strip it so the best thing to do is tap lightly while applying pressure to loosen it up. Using the correct bit is also important because sometimes more than one bit will appear to fit, but one of them will fit better than the other.
The ones on my 2003 GT were Torx bolts.
I guess Ford ran out of phillips screws that day [8D]
06-15-2008, 12:10 PM
#9
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
I have found that a reversibleelectric screwdriver with adjustable torque settings, can often be used as a sort impact tool to break stubborn smaller machine screws loose. Set it for a higher or the highest torque. depending on how powerful your drill is,then selectreverse and go at it with the appropriate bit.[/align][/align]It is very effective, to the point that I often grab the drill first...[/align]
06-16-2008, 01:34 AM
#10
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1,031
RE: adjusting the voltage on the tps
ORIGINAL: cliffyk
I have found that a reversibleelectric screwdriver with adjustable torque settings, can often be used as a sort impact tool to break stubborn smaller machine screws loose. Set it for a higher or the highest torque. depending on how powerful your drill is,then selectreverse and go at it with the appropriate bit.[/align][/align]It is very effective, to the point that I often grab the drill first...[/align]
I have found that a reversibleelectric screwdriver with adjustable torque settings, can often be used as a sort impact tool to break stubborn smaller machine screws loose. Set it for a higher or the highest torque. depending on how powerful your drill is,then selectreverse and go at it with the appropriate bit.[/align][/align]It is very effective, to the point that I often grab the drill first...[/align]
I'll give it a try next time.
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