Termie Swap Runs! BIG Props to wolverine!
06-18-2008, 11:21 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where gunshots are more common than birds chirping
Posts: 504
Termie Swap Runs! BIG Props to wolverine!
EDIT 6/19/08 - We ended realizing that on the Cobra ECM harness has different inputs and outputs for the fuel pump after we hooked up all the wires and still couldn't get it to fire. If anyone needs to do this swap I can give you some really helpful advice in a PM. Once we traced the wires to the pump and grounded the CCM properly the car cranks and fires right away.
Here's the situation, I have had the 03 Termie motor in my car now for almost a month and I haven't been able to fire it due to wiring gremlins. At first I had the motor hooked up to a 03/04 Cobra engine harness and a GT ECM harness. We reflashed the computer to not use the PATS system and the car would fire on 4 cylinders. We couldn't trace the problem to a wire, so we chalked that one up to needing a Cobra ECM harness.
I went out and grabbed an ECM harness and plugged it all in last night. Most everything hooked right up and everything EXCEPT the underdash harness is now hooked up. We went to fire the car. BLAM! Now it sits there and cranks and won't fire. The THEFT light on the dash blinks rapidly which to me indicated that the PATS system was now active. So, now I tried to reflash the computer with the PATS system bypass through the tuning software. The Data Link Connector is no longer working because now it says "Turn Key to ON Position" and when I do it doesn't even realize or recognize it. I tried to use a wiring diagram to trace the wires that control the DLC and they aren't hooked in. I try to splice those 3 wires and it still didn't work. I am now stuck with basically a complete swap, but the car's PATS system prevents it from firing.
What can I do to bypass/disable the PATS or what wires do I need to splice to get the Data Link Connector to work again so that I can reflash the computer?!
Here's the situation, I have had the 03 Termie motor in my car now for almost a month and I haven't been able to fire it due to wiring gremlins. At first I had the motor hooked up to a 03/04 Cobra engine harness and a GT ECM harness. We reflashed the computer to not use the PATS system and the car would fire on 4 cylinders. We couldn't trace the problem to a wire, so we chalked that one up to needing a Cobra ECM harness.
I went out and grabbed an ECM harness and plugged it all in last night. Most everything hooked right up and everything EXCEPT the underdash harness is now hooked up. We went to fire the car. BLAM! Now it sits there and cranks and won't fire. The THEFT light on the dash blinks rapidly which to me indicated that the PATS system was now active. So, now I tried to reflash the computer with the PATS system bypass through the tuning software. The Data Link Connector is no longer working because now it says "Turn Key to ON Position" and when I do it doesn't even realize or recognize it. I tried to use a wiring diagram to trace the wires that control the DLC and they aren't hooked in. I try to splice those 3 wires and it still didn't work. I am now stuck with basically a complete swap, but the car's PATS system prevents it from firing.
What can I do to bypass/disable the PATS or what wires do I need to splice to get the Data Link Connector to work again so that I can reflash the computer?!
06-18-2008, 11:48 AM
#5
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 564
RE: Gay PATS situation, Need help ASAP
Also, I may be wrong about this, but I think even if the PATS was the issue, it would start, but only run for a certain amount of time... That was my understanding.
I would try and find out whats up with it not starting. When you turn the key, do you hear the fuel pump running? Do you have fuel at the fuel rail? If so, then I would pull a plug, let it sit of the side of the motor (or anything metal) crank the engine, and see if you have spark.
I would try and find out whats up with it not starting. When you turn the key, do you hear the fuel pump running? Do you have fuel at the fuel rail? If so, then I would pull a plug, let it sit of the side of the motor (or anything metal) crank the engine, and see if you have spark.
06-18-2008, 12:00 PM
#6
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In between Your Mom's Titties, skeet skeet..
Posts: 2,045
RE: Gay PATS situation, Need help ASAP
Isn't PATS related to the key itself, in this situation?? You're using the same key-tumbler/ignition as the 99, but using the 03 ECM??
I understand you're trying to bypass it, but wouldn't you need to swap out the tumbler, and try to start it with the Cobra ignition w/ the Cobra ECM powered up??
JT
I understand you're trying to bypass it, but wouldn't you need to swap out the tumbler, and try to start it with the Cobra ignition w/ the Cobra ECM powered up??
JT
06-18-2008, 12:15 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where gunshots are more common than birds chirping
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RE: Gay PATS situation, Need help ASAP
ORIGINAL: wolverine8490
Also, I may be wrong about this, but I think even if the PATS was the issue, it would start, but only run for a certain amount of time... That was my understanding.
I would try and find out whats up with it not starting. When you turn the key, do you hear the fuel pump running? Do you have fuel at the fuel rail? If so, then I would pull a plug, let it sit of the side of the motor (or anything metal) crank the engine, and see if you have spark.
Also, I may be wrong about this, but I think even if the PATS was the issue, it would start, but only run for a certain amount of time... That was my understanding.
I would try and find out whats up with it not starting. When you turn the key, do you hear the fuel pump running? Do you have fuel at the fuel rail? If so, then I would pull a plug, let it sit of the side of the motor (or anything metal) crank the engine, and see if you have spark.
THEFT light blinks rapidly and when the car is turning over it sometimes pops like it's going to fire then it doesnt.
Isn't PATS related to the key itself, in this situation?? You're using the same key-tumbler/ignition as the 99, but using the 03 ECM??
If I'm not wrong your wiring diagram will show you that a Tan/Orange, Violet, and a Pink/Lt Blue wire control the DLC regardless of year, but I tried to splice those already and it didn't do anything. I can't connect the DLC the proper way because the pigtails are somewhat different for the underdash in a 99GT and a 03 Cobra.
06-18-2008, 12:32 PM
#8
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 564
RE: Gay PATS situation, Need help ASAP
ORIGINAL: 35thAnni99GT
We ARE getting fuel to the rails and it IS sparking. Remeber, I did mention that the car ran, but only on 4 cylinders. I got P0354, P0355, P0356, P0358 coming back to me when I tried to start the car with the GT ECM harness, which more than likely had to do with the pins not lining up between the ECM harness and the Engine harness.
THEFT light blinks rapidly and when the car is turning over it sometimes pops like it's going to fire then it doesnt.
We ARE getting fuel to the rails and it IS sparking. Remeber, I did mention that the car ran, but only on 4 cylinders. I got P0354, P0355, P0356, P0358 coming back to me when I tried to start the car with the GT ECM harness, which more than likely had to do with the pins not lining up between the ECM harness and the Engine harness.
THEFT light blinks rapidly and when the car is turning over it sometimes pops like it's going to fire then it doesnt.
It could really be a million things. When I wired my 91GT ECM harness into my 96 to convert it into a 5.0L, I had issues like this as well. It took many hours of staring at the diagrams to make sense of it.
I can get any wiring diagram for any year stang you want. If you need something, just yell. Personally, I would suggest ripping all of the wiring off the engine, and yank the ECM and start over. It could be a million things that only your eyes will be able to see unfortunatly.
ORIGINAL: 35thAnni99GT
If I'm not wrong your wiring diagram will show you that a Tan/Orange, Violet, and a Pink/Lt Blue wire control the DLC regardless of year, but I tried to splice those already and it didn't do anything. I can't connect the DLC the proper way because the pigtails are somewhat different for the underdash in a 99GT and a 03 Cobra.
If I'm not wrong your wiring diagram will show you that a Tan/Orange, Violet, and a Pink/Lt Blue wire control the DLC regardless of year, but I tried to splice those already and it didn't do anything. I can't connect the DLC the proper way because the pigtails are somewhat different for the underdash in a 99GT and a 03 Cobra.
06-18-2008, 12:40 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where gunshots are more common than birds chirping
Posts: 504
RE: Gay PATS situation, Need help ASAP
ORIGINAL: wolverine8490
Could be the the latest ECM harness may not be sending the signal fuel pump??? Well the inertia switch isn't tripped and I can hear the pump pressurize, so would this mean it's working?
Also, I used Sniper to turn off my PATS when I switched my 96GT from an auto to a manual, and it still blinks fast everytime I start it for about 1 minute. I think you're right on this one.
It could really be a million things. When I wired my 91GT ECM harness into my 96 to convert it into a 5.0L, I had issues like this as well. It took many hours of staring at the diagrams to make sense of it.
I can get any wiring diagram for any year stang you want. If you need something, just yell. Personally, I would suggest ripping all of the wiring off the engine, and yank the ECM and start over. It could be a million things that only your eyes will be able to see unfortunatly.
You are correct with the colors. Also, Check Fuse #31, should be a 10amp fuse. This is the fuse that is used to power the DLC. I have seen those pop before and cause weird issues with the handhelds. When I plug a handheld into the DLC it powers up, but it doesn't perform any of the functions. Another thing. There's two wires which both look close to Violet, but one is lighter and the other is darker. Which one is which?! There's no stripe on either, just a solid color. I assume one is purple and the other is violet, but can you look at your wiring diagram to see if there is a solid Purple and a solid Violet and which one does what?
Could be the the latest ECM harness may not be sending the signal fuel pump??? Well the inertia switch isn't tripped and I can hear the pump pressurize, so would this mean it's working?
Also, I used Sniper to turn off my PATS when I switched my 96GT from an auto to a manual, and it still blinks fast everytime I start it for about 1 minute. I think you're right on this one.
It could really be a million things. When I wired my 91GT ECM harness into my 96 to convert it into a 5.0L, I had issues like this as well. It took many hours of staring at the diagrams to make sense of it.
I can get any wiring diagram for any year stang you want. If you need something, just yell. Personally, I would suggest ripping all of the wiring off the engine, and yank the ECM and start over. It could be a million things that only your eyes will be able to see unfortunatly.
You are correct with the colors. Also, Check Fuse #31, should be a 10amp fuse. This is the fuse that is used to power the DLC. I have seen those pop before and cause weird issues with the handhelds. When I plug a handheld into the DLC it powers up, but it doesn't perform any of the functions. Another thing. There's two wires which both look close to Violet, but one is lighter and the other is darker. Which one is which?! There's no stripe on either, just a solid color. I assume one is purple and the other is violet, but can you look at your wiring diagram to see if there is a solid Purple and a solid Violet and which one does what?
06-18-2008, 12:50 PM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,296
RE: Gay PATS situation, Need help ASAP
If the PATS system is active, and the theft light is blinking rapidly, the only thing the car will do is turn over. It will never fire up and run until the fuel in the fuel lines is out....
I cant help you with the wiring or any of that, but my PATS system trips quite frequently actually... its something in my steering column. Normally it goes off once a day and I cant crank my car, I just move the steering wheel all the way down and she fires right up.
I cant help you with the wiring or any of that, but my PATS system trips quite frequently actually... its something in my steering column. Normally it goes off once a day and I cant crank my car, I just move the steering wheel all the way down and she fires right up.
