TT or SC?
05-21-2005, 02:05 AM
#43
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Southern Kentucky
Posts: 1,487
RE: TT or SC?
ORIGINAL: Obsol3te
Guys, we don't need those comments. Keep it clean and we can have a nice discussion.
Guys, we don't need those comments. Keep it clean and we can have a nice discussion.
Saying a Powerdyne will have to be rebuilt every few months is a totally uneducated statement. I did read the review sites and (on the ones I read) Pdyne actually came out higher than Paxton... Go figure...
I think the bottom line is that if someone can afford to buy a $7,000+ Turbo kit, they can afford to buy some pissy cams and forged internals. [&:]
Lets just make it simple. F-K em all and go N20, all the cool kids do it
.
05-21-2005, 04:03 AM
#44
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: TT or SC?
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
You got it backwards. Find my quote where I said that. What I said, (for the 18th time) was that from a practicallity and logic standpoint, it doesn't make sense to do tt's on a stock gt. You can't argue with this statement, because you are doing a blower over tt's for the same reasons.
Go back and read my quote. (You seem to be very good at misquoting me) What I said was TT's are HARDER to tune that a blown set-up.
Hey, the Saleen I'm currently driving has a procharger over a twin screw because when the blower went on a few years ago, twin screw products weren't out yet. I wanted the 1.7 KB, it wasn't out yet, and Saleen's series 5 wasn't avalible except on the S281E.
You don't have to respect me or my racing career, but how and where I spend my $ is my business. I am starting to sense a very personnal level of attack here on myself and my racing. Let me ask you this: HOW OLD ARE YOU? I have probably been racing, and tuning mustangs since before you were in grade school. I guarantee that I know more about it than you, and I guarantee I know more about racing than you. I'd be real careful what you say and post, because you are making yourself look like a fu**ing idiot. You need to pull your head out of your *** kiddo. If you stopped misquoting me and read my posts, you'd learn something.
You were wrong that:
There is no adavantage to a TT on a GT
There is no adavantage to a TT on a GT
And that turbos are hard to tune. (forgot to mention that up there). Why would it be hard to tune?
BTW, I have a very hard time beileveing that you are any sort of pro drag racer. A pro drag racer making all kinds of cash and you have a stock bottom end 440 RWHP saleen? Seems kinda silly to me, I sure as **** wouldn't be driving around a mustang making 150,000+ every year.
And even so, I don't give 2 ****s who you are or not. Just because someone can strap into a 4000 HP rail and drive it down 1320 feet of pavement doesn't mean they know anything about cars.
And even so, I don't give 2 ****s who you are or not. Just because someone can strap into a 4000 HP rail and drive it down 1320 feet of pavement doesn't mean they know anything about cars.
You don't have to respect me or my racing career, but how and where I spend my $ is my business. I am starting to sense a very personnal level of attack here on myself and my racing. Let me ask you this: HOW OLD ARE YOU? I have probably been racing, and tuning mustangs since before you were in grade school. I guarantee that I know more about it than you, and I guarantee I know more about racing than you. I'd be real careful what you say and post, because you are making yourself look like a fu**ing idiot. You need to pull your head out of your *** kiddo. If you stopped misquoting me and read my posts, you'd learn something.
I showed this to a old mustang guy at work. He was shaking his head all the way thru your posts. It simply seems like you just don't understand what a HUGE part of the equation the power the blower uses to turn is.
Plain and simple. Dead stock, stock bottom end with all of the boltons in the world, or competely built, no matter what, the turbo car is going to develop more power to the wheels, and be faster.
You said directly:
"There is no logical reason to do TT's on a stock bottom end and stock cams. PERIOD. "
Then you said:
"Getting the car's rwhp to the 'high but safe' point is easy for both a blown gt and a tt gt. We're not talking boost psi to boost psi, were talking hp to hp."
These are direct quotes. There is both all of the reason in the world to do a TT on a stock bottom end/cam'd GT (more power, and lots of it), and a TT will make more power than a blower on the same block, w/ both of em making the max level before damage. All of this is clearly explained in post #13 page 2.
If I'm such a young punk ***** that doesnt know anything, prove ONE thing wrong on post #13 page 2 of this increasingly long and pointless thread. You didnt even respond to that, because once again everything I said is rooted in the entire POINT of a turbo. I frankly don't care how long you have been doing it, because your WRONG about turbochargers.
My dad has been in the automotive buisness for well over 30 years, and he tells me all the time I shouldn't do a blower because my car cannot handle the power. He isn't right, and all of the years of experence (and extreme respect I have for him and that experence) cannot make him right.
Ya know, you sound like a few guys at work. They think they know everything, because they have "been doing this **** for 15 years", and yet I am the one who gets calls at home when they cannot figure something out. I don't give 2 ****s weither your 2 or 200, or you make 100 or 150,000 a year, or you dragrace for money or work at walmart, your not right on this subject. You constantly steer people away from turbos (and centrifgals for that matter it seems) and yet these are the two options that will make the car the fastest (either with a crapton of money, or the cheapest way sans N20).
Once again, have you NOT seen the TT 03 cobra vids? They are simply amazing. Or hell, that 600 RWHP TT GT that was on here awhile back (no way it was a stock bottom end, but still. Turbos are amazing tools on a 4.6, or any engine for that matter. They are simply better than a blower to make power and speed, but they are also alot more expensive. You gotta pay to play, or as alot of people on here say, how fast do you want to spend?
I am not trying to insult or anger you, but you sound like your really pissed because your wrong. As young, inexperenced, and stupid as I am have the stuff to admit when I am wrong (as I did long ago on the flowmaster vs Magnaflow issue) but I am not wrong on this subject.
05-21-2005, 05:02 AM
#45
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,967
RE: TT or SC?
OK here it is.
Both of you are idiots.
Birdieman youve made your point youve presented good info be a man and back off.
2000gt46 or w/e your name is i really couldnt care. just shut up. both of you are re-presenting the same info
Both of you are idiots.
Birdieman youve made your point youve presented good info be a man and back off.
2000gt46 or w/e your name is i really couldnt care. just shut up. both of you are re-presenting the same info
05-21-2005, 05:24 AM
#46
Join Date: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 16
RE: TT or SC?
I've pretty much missed out on the entire topic.....but it sounds like the typical redneck S/Cs are good because drag cars use them verses turbochargers arguments.
A big single turbo is the most efficent way to make power. If you take a S/C engine and a turbocharged engine......and both are designed equally.....and all else being equal.....given the same boost level, the turbocharged engine will make more power. This a bar none proven point.
The nice part about this fact....is that, lets say you want 500 WHP....fine....do it with a supercharger and you have to use a higher level of boost.....which means you might have to rip into the motor and change thigns around. While the turbocharged guy doesn't haven't too. Ever see what 20 psi does to a Supra??? And then take that same 20 psi to a 4.6 via a S/C....and you wind up about 150 hp short.....and the little Toyota does it with two less cams and 1.6 less liters of displacement,
I did see someone above mention aftermarket cams....the thing is, turbochargers LIKE stock cams (verses N/A cams).....mainly because the are low overlap cams.
If you got an automatic....even better! You can build boost right at the line. What do you think the 1000+ hp Supras use? Powerglides and Turbo 400s.
A lot of the information posted in this topic is based strictly on point of view of the author.......and they have no actual engineering back ground.....my advice? Look up an engineer that specializes in I/C engines.
A big single turbo is the most efficent way to make power. If you take a S/C engine and a turbocharged engine......and both are designed equally.....and all else being equal.....given the same boost level, the turbocharged engine will make more power. This a bar none proven point.
The nice part about this fact....is that, lets say you want 500 WHP....fine....do it with a supercharger and you have to use a higher level of boost.....which means you might have to rip into the motor and change thigns around. While the turbocharged guy doesn't haven't too. Ever see what 20 psi does to a Supra??? And then take that same 20 psi to a 4.6 via a S/C....and you wind up about 150 hp short.....and the little Toyota does it with two less cams and 1.6 less liters of displacement,
I did see someone above mention aftermarket cams....the thing is, turbochargers LIKE stock cams (verses N/A cams).....mainly because the are low overlap cams.
If you got an automatic....even better! You can build boost right at the line. What do you think the 1000+ hp Supras use? Powerglides and Turbo 400s.
A lot of the information posted in this topic is based strictly on point of view of the author.......and they have no actual engineering back ground.....my advice? Look up an engineer that specializes in I/C engines.
05-22-2005, 08:43 AM
#47
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
RE: TT or SC?
ORIGINAL: David_K
LOSERS!
Stop talking to each other and you might keep my respect.
LOSERS!
Stop talking to each other and you might keep my respect.
Birdieman4
My comment was concerning a MM&FF article the 20004.6gt mentioned, that's the 3500 rpm deal I was refering to.
My comment was concerning a MM&FF article the 20004.6gt mentioned, that's the 3500 rpm deal I was refering to.
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
Just curious Fox, what have I been wrong about?
ORIGINAL: FoxGT
Both were wrong at some things, both were right at others.
Both were wrong at some things, both were right at others.
THE LIST.
Why? What makes it not logical?
Plenty of people run a power addwer without upgrading their exhaust.
You're forgetting the supercharger makes alot more power than you know of, some of it is getting taken away by the supercharger itself.
Wrong person.
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
There is no logical reason to do TT's on a stock bottom end and stock cams. PERIOD.
There is no logical reason to do TT's on a stock bottom end and stock cams. PERIOD.
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
First of all, NOBODY runs a power adder without at least upgrading their exhaust and mufflers. Even though the guy you mentioned is doing it, no one else is, mostly because it's foolish. So, you aren't going to find a guy driving a supercharged car without at least an exhaust upgrade for a comparison.
First of all, NOBODY runs a power adder without at least upgrading their exhaust and mufflers. Even though the guy you mentioned is doing it, no one else is, mostly because it's foolish. So, you aren't going to find a guy driving a supercharged car without at least an exhaust upgrade for a comparison.
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
The discussion here isn't psi to psi, it is hp to hp #, as it has been all along. It is common knowledge to all that a turbo car will make more power at the same psi vs a blower. Got a blown gt making 400 rwhp and wanna make it faster? No problem, just run a little more boost. You STILL don't get it. A stock gt with stock internals can only handle so much hp. It's a concrete #. It's a fixed #. Getting the car's rwhp to the 'high but safe' point is easy for both a blown gt and a tt gt. We're not talking boost psi to boost psi, were talking hp to hp.
The discussion here isn't psi to psi, it is hp to hp #, as it has been all along. It is common knowledge to all that a turbo car will make more power at the same psi vs a blower. Got a blown gt making 400 rwhp and wanna make it faster? No problem, just run a little more boost. You STILL don't get it. A stock gt with stock internals can only handle so much hp. It's a concrete #. It's a fixed #. Getting the car's rwhp to the 'high but safe' point is easy for both a blown gt and a tt gt. We're not talking boost psi to boost psi, were talking hp to hp.
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
Hey Obsol3te, when are you getting the KB?
Hey Obsol3te, when are you getting the KB?
ORIGINAL: LuvBottles97GT
HOLY ****!!!! My eyes hurt from reading all that. But hey, I like Turbos and you like SC's! Who the F cares. If you have a N/A car runnin 10's or a TT car runnin 10's or a SCed car runnin 10's.......All your cars are fast as f*ck! Everyone has an opion on SC vs. TT and everyone has good pionts, but who cares what it takes to get your car fast??? As long as your car is as fast as you want it to be, thats all that counts. I know more than you do you know more than I do. I dont care if Im pushin 800RWHP on a TT set up and your pushin 700RWHP on a SC set up.....we both have SICK *** CARS and we kick ***. If you like a TT set up...get it.....if you like a SC set up....get it!!! Thats all I have to say and hopefully we can drop the "I'm smarter than you" arguement!
HOLY ****!!!! My eyes hurt from reading all that. But hey, I like Turbos and you like SC's! Who the F cares. If you have a N/A car runnin 10's or a TT car runnin 10's or a SCed car runnin 10's.......All your cars are fast as f*ck! Everyone has an opion on SC vs. TT and everyone has good pionts, but who cares what it takes to get your car fast??? As long as your car is as fast as you want it to be, thats all that counts. I know more than you do you know more than I do. I dont care if Im pushin 800RWHP on a TT set up and your pushin 700RWHP on a SC set up.....we both have SICK *** CARS and we kick ***. If you like a TT set up...get it.....if you like a SC set up....get it!!! Thats all I have to say and hopefully we can drop the "I'm smarter than you" arguement!
ORIGINAL: Obselite
2000gt..you're a ***. In my post about tt's bein for imports, i said that was my personal opinion. I never said that's the way it HAS to be. As far as s/c's not making as much power, I was just lookin at a viper that pegged the dyno at 1200 hp and was estimated to have 1600 hp--it was supercharged.
Birdie...continue the ownage.
2000gt..you're a ***. In my post about tt's bein for imports, i said that was my personal opinion. I never said that's the way it HAS to be. As far as s/c's not making as much power, I was just lookin at a viper that pegged the dyno at 1200 hp and was estimated to have 1600 hp--it was supercharged.
Birdie...continue the ownage.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
If I'm such a young punk ***** that doesnt know anything, prove ONE thing wrong on post #13 page 2 of this increasingly long and pointless thread. You didnt even respond to that, because once again everything I said is rooted in the entire POINT of a turbo. I frankly don't care how long you have been doing it, because your WRONG about turbochargers.
If I'm such a young punk ***** that doesnt know anything, prove ONE thing wrong on post #13 page 2 of this increasingly long and pointless thread. You didnt even respond to that, because once again everything I said is rooted in the entire POINT of a turbo. I frankly don't care how long you have been doing it, because your WRONG about turbochargers.
ORIGINAL: Canada
I did see someone above mention aftermarket cams....the thing is, turbochargers LIKE stock cams (verses N/A cams).....mainly because the are low overlap cams.
I did see someone above mention aftermarket cams....the thing is, turbochargers LIKE stock cams (verses N/A cams).....mainly because the are low overlap cams.
ORIGINAL: Canada
A lot of the information posted in this topic is based strictly on point of view of the author.......and they have no actual engineering back ground.....my advice? Look up an engineer that specializes in I/C engines.
A lot of the information posted in this topic is based strictly on point of view of the author.......and they have no actual engineering back ground.....my advice? Look up an engineer that specializes in I/C engines.
It seems to me 2000GT4.6 likes both superchargers & turbos, but he is trying to get the points across that they create more power than superchargers & they are good on a stock engine aswell as modified.
& if I said anything wrong please, do tell me. If I think there is a possibility I could be wrong I'll go research the topic & admit I was wrong. Everybody makes mistakes.
It seems to me the people that shouldn't be typing in here are the people that have no clue on this topic & just post to let people know they are in this world. A good example would be someone typing, "you go owned". & the name calling is stupid. They make forums to have a debate on things, whether you're pissed when you're typing it or not. People are learning things from these arguments. Why post things like "ok ok calm down you both are stupid, shutup"? Do you think that will help either side of the argument(s)?
05-25-2005, 07:53 AM
#48
Join Date: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 28
RE: TT or SC?
I know I just a newbie and my opinion means s**t to you guy's, but I wanted to toss my two cents in. If you are willing to spend all the money that a TT will cost, why not just yank the motor and have it replaced(rebuilt) with forged parst from reputuable builders like SHM or CHP? Both will sell you a Forged bottom end along with Forged pistons, new rods and such and give you an almost bullit proof motor. Not to mention the head work and cams you could get. I would have to think that all of that plus a nice Paxton, Kenne Bell, so on and so forth would give you a nice strong motor, and maybe 30 or 40 cents change in your pocket, without the worries of a stock bottom end. But then again what do I know?