Bad Starter Acting Like Bad Battery
02-03-2014, 01:06 PM
#1
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Update: 150 mA Draw on Battery
UPDATE BELOW ON POST 5 OR 6 OR SOMETHING
I've changed the battery out twice and replaced the alternator within the last 5 months.
The car has been having 'slow' starts the last few weeks in this bitter cold garbage we've been experiencing here in natures wonderland that is northern Indiana.
Today, it's probably 25 out, and the piece of crap won't start.
It's giving a lazy attempt at starting and then doing the typical click click click which indicates a dead battery.
But if I leave it sit for a minute, it'll give another sorry attempt at a start, then begin clicking.
My battery is reading fine on the dash, I've thrown it on a charger which shows it fully charged, so I'm about ready to go burn the piece of crap to the ground.
But I guess before I do that, I should ask if a bad starter can give symptoms similar to a bad battery, or be responsible for the agonizing starts every morning (even though that makes more sense if it's the ridiculous temperatures that are causing that).
I've changed the battery out twice and replaced the alternator within the last 5 months.
The car has been having 'slow' starts the last few weeks in this bitter cold garbage we've been experiencing here in natures wonderland that is northern Indiana.
Today, it's probably 25 out, and the piece of crap won't start.
It's giving a lazy attempt at starting and then doing the typical click click click which indicates a dead battery.
But if I leave it sit for a minute, it'll give another sorry attempt at a start, then begin clicking.
My battery is reading fine on the dash, I've thrown it on a charger which shows it fully charged, so I'm about ready to go burn the piece of crap to the ground.
But I guess before I do that, I should ask if a bad starter can give symptoms similar to a bad battery, or be responsible for the agonizing starts every morning (even though that makes more sense if it's the ridiculous temperatures that are causing that).
Last edited by 72MachOne99GT; 02-08-2014 at 01:29 PM. Reason: New info
02-03-2014, 01:26 PM
#3
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As far as I know.
It worked fine for the first couple months until this cold garbage rolled through. Started up fine the other day in colder weather than we are having today.
It has a mind of its own, and apparently today it wanted me to blow mine..and it succeeded.
It worked fine for the first couple months until this cold garbage rolled through. Started up fine the other day in colder weather than we are having today.
It has a mind of its own, and apparently today it wanted me to blow mine..and it succeeded.
02-03-2014, 01:27 PM
#4
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I ought to throw this out there...last Friday in the morning, it was very cold and the car didnt start.
Slow cold lazy crank click click click..
Later that day after work without doing anything to it, the car started fine.
Cranked right up.
Slow cold lazy crank click click click..
Later that day after work without doing anything to it, the car started fine.
Cranked right up.
02-03-2014, 04:49 PM
#5
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Check the battery voltage while cranking/attempting to crank the engine--if it falls below 10.5 V then the battery is not fully charged, it has a bad cell(s), or the starter and/or starter solenoid is/are bad. Checking the starter current would verify this, however that requires a high-current ammeter--get it to a starter/alternator shop and they will be able to test that.
Starting at 25° F should not be a problem...
Starting at 25° F should not be a problem...
02-08-2014, 01:33 PM
#6
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UPDATE POST #6
Today I tried jumping the battery again to no avail. Even after charging I wasn't reading anything greater than 11 volts.
Put my fancy railroad triplett meter in series to see what kind of current was being drawn from the battery with nothing on, and since I wasn't sure what to expect I figured maybe 10-15 mils...
150 mA were shown however. Decided to start pulling fuses under the hood.
Got to fuse 6, a 40A maxi fuse, pulled it and current went completely away.
Fuse 6: Instrument Cluster, PCM
I remember last year sometime that another member on here was having issues with battery drainage, as are others from time to time. That member pulled fuses and I believe he came to some conclusion about the PCM not going to sleep.
Does anyone have that link, or remember it or what happened, as well as a next course of action?
Cliffy, if you get a PM and see this, it's because I am about to PM you a link.
Thanks in advance guys
Today I tried jumping the battery again to no avail. Even after charging I wasn't reading anything greater than 11 volts.
Put my fancy railroad triplett meter in series to see what kind of current was being drawn from the battery with nothing on, and since I wasn't sure what to expect I figured maybe 10-15 mils...
150 mA were shown however. Decided to start pulling fuses under the hood.
Got to fuse 6, a 40A maxi fuse, pulled it and current went completely away.
Fuse 6: Instrument Cluster, PCM
I remember last year sometime that another member on here was having issues with battery drainage, as are others from time to time. That member pulled fuses and I believe he came to some conclusion about the PCM not going to sleep.
Does anyone have that link, or remember it or what happened, as well as a next course of action?
Cliffy, if you get a PM and see this, it's because I am about to PM you a link.
Thanks in advance guys
02-08-2014, 01:40 PM
#7
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It can take up to 40 minutes for the PCM and other systems to go to sleep, 150 mA or more is normal until that happens. Here are the charging system test, including the "dark current" procedure...
02-08-2014, 01:47 PM
#8
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ah ****, you answered one of the questions I was about to ask "how do you know the PCM is going to sleep if you have to disconnect one of the battery leads to check current.
Step 4
You said a fused jumper wire, is there a certain fuse that needs to be used? I can rig up some kind of connection and wire to run between the terminal and the connection, but not sure how to incorporate a fuse into it.
Ideas?
Step 4
Connect a fused jumper wire between the negative battery cable and the negative battery post to prevent modules from resetting and to catch capacitive drains.
Ideas?
02-08-2014, 02:00 PM
#9
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The Ford Shop Manual said "a fused jumper", not me. That's really just a CYA sort of thing; the worse that could happen with an unfused jumper would be if there was something drawing enough power to melt the wire. With a 16 gauge wire that would take 35 to 40 A.
Whenever the term "fused jumper" is used the assumption is that you fuse it appropriately for the jumper's wire gauge (say 15 A for 16 ga), or for the maximum amount of current you want to flow through the circuit before flow is cut off--I.e. the fuse blows...
Whenever the term "fused jumper" is used the assumption is that you fuse it appropriately for the jumper's wire gauge (say 15 A for 16 ga), or for the maximum amount of current you want to flow through the circuit before flow is cut off--I.e. the fuse blows...
02-08-2014, 02:06 PM
#10
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Oh, just don't melt your wire sort of thing.
I've melted some **** at work, I'm not too worried about that then.
One more question before I go eye something up... if I don't have a fully charged battery (say 10-11 volts instead of 14-15) can I still run this load test and get accurate results?
Seems like no matter how low the battery is (to the point where it still powers everything) I can still see if the PCM is going to sleep after 40-50 minutes right?
I've melted some **** at work, I'm not too worried about that then.
One more question before I go eye something up... if I don't have a fully charged battery (say 10-11 volts instead of 14-15) can I still run this load test and get accurate results?
Seems like no matter how low the battery is (to the point where it still powers everything) I can still see if the PCM is going to sleep after 40-50 minutes right?