al02gt

I have been trying to figure out why my 2002 GT started ticking at idle. It goes away when you rev the engine past idle. THen it slowly comes back 4-5 seconds after returning to idle.

I just replaced the timing chain/adjusters/guides with an aftermarket cloyes set.

All of this started after #4 blew out and I took it to the ford dealership to have a TImesert insert installed in #4.

I replaced the timing chains after getting it back and it still ticked.

So I replaced all the hydraulic slack adjusters on the passenger side where the noise was coming from.

When you unplug the #4 injector the noise makes no change. When you unplug the #4 coil it got quiter and almost went away.

So I have pull the heads off to check everything out. I see no damage.

Only thing that looks odd is that the #4 plug that was replaced with the timesert does not go into the head near as far as the other plugs. I have the head on a stand and tightened as far as it would go in the insert.

Would this cause an issue in that cylinder to create this noise? I know it's several CC's different than the others, and the plug is definately recessed.

If the ticking noise is not coming from the timesert, then I'm guessing it's either the aftermarket plastic timing adjuster on the passenger side, a cam follower on one of the #4 valves, or potentially a wrist pin.

Here are the pictures.

#4 intake and exhaust valves. I didn't see any damage on the valve or seats other than a small piece of carbon buildup on the exhaust seat that I had to scrape off with a wire brish.


Here is a picture of the #4 cam followers. A little wear on the valve contact surface but it matches the rest of the valvetrain.



A little wear in the cam girdle/bearing area (Not sure what to call this where the cam sits and spins in oil.)




Picture of the #4 cam lobes



Picture of the recessed Timsert and #4 plug
http://www.packetfocus.com/mustang/4_plug-1.JPG

Valves sitting down in head without springs on them.
http://www.packetfocus.com/mustang/4_valves_in_head.JPG

al02gt

Here is the Timsert with the plug tightened as far as it will go.

cliffyk

The insert was incorrectly installed, not seated properly--the tapered seat of the plug is sealing againt the insert, however the insert is not seated against the head. What you are hearing is blow-by through the insert threads, at higher engine speeds the duration of the compression is shorter = less time to blow-by, and what does blow-by may be supersonic.

Properly installed the plug should project the same as the others, here's an image from Time-Sert's web site:



This happened because they did not properly ream the plug hole as shown in this video, also from Time-Sert's site (you think they'd know how to spell "Windsor")...

http://www.timesert.com/html/triton-install.html


Nice photos BTW!

al02gt

Thanks for the reply Cliff-

I had the plugs out when I was doing the porting and noticed it once I put them back in. It sits way down in the chamber.

Can they fix this if I take it back to the Ford dealership?
I have spent a lot of time working the heads and wouldn't want to get another stocker if possible.

cliffyk

The Time-Sert inserts are made to NOT comeout, so if it has to come out to properly ream the plug well you'll need a real machine shop that can remove the insert without damaging the special threads to insert uses.

That aside however, I would go back to the dealer, grab someone by the neck, and explain to them in no uncertain terms that they ARE going to fix it--and to let me know when it's done...

al02gt

Hrmmm...

I was hoping that they could use the tool to screw the insert flush like it should have been.

The threads go all the way to the end of the hole, but the insert is about 1/4"+ down in the hole.

They probably don't have the tooling to repair it, so I wonder if they will just give me a stock head?? Guess I won't know until I take the head to them tomorrow.

I hope they can fix it because I have spent a lot of time port matching and pocket porting the heads.






I went back after the pictures above and smoothed out the bumps in the intake and matched the exhaust ports.

I finished them up with a 60 grit slapper wheel that I hope would help with the flow. It's smooth, but has a slightly rough edge.

I also spent a lot of time smoothing and polishing the exhaust. Figured I would get 10-15 HP at the wheels with the port matching. But I don't have any flow numbers to verify what I did improved flow.


I'd like to build a SOHC nitrous motor with a good port job and much larger exhaust valve.

But I have to get this sorted out first. Hopefully the dealership will stand behind their work. I'm betting they will try to say that the reccomended procedure would have been to put a new head on it, and they don't warranty the insert job.

al02gt

If I cc'd the combustion chambers right now with the timesert issue and found out it added 4cc's- how would I calculate the change in compression ratio in that cylinder.

This would be the same calculation if you removed the hump in front of the intake port I suppose. I head thats a 3-4cc change.

cliffyk

I doubt very much that the additional volume casued by the improperly installed insert will have any profind impact on compression ratio--it will of course have an impact, I just do not believe it would be 4cc's or significant.

Re: the Time-Sert, if they used T-S's expansion tool to push out the lower threads on the insert it will be very difficult to move or remove without damaging the special T-S threads. I'd block it up in a milling machine and bore out the insert until nothing was left but it's threads, then pick those out and properly install a new insert.

After watching the video it looks to me that they did not ream the plug bore, at all, or not enough for the Romeo head as shown.

al02gt

Well,

I just got back from the FOrd dealership that did the work. The mechanic wasn't in, so I talked directly to the service manager.

He said that it looked OK to him, and he doesn't believe that the insert should be flush. He also said that FOrd reccomends replacing the heads, so they didn't want to warranty the Timesert install in any fashion.

He also said that if I planned on taking the heads off, I should have taken it to a machine shop. I explained to him, that this was the first problem I ever had out of the 02 GT (Spark plug blowing out of #4), and I didn't plan on going into the engine.

So anyway, I left the head with him and he said that he'd have the mechanic look at it when he comes back in tomorrow or the next day. And they would see if they could put a new insert in it.

So basically, he argued with me for 20 minutes that there is no way that air is getting by the insert and making the tapping noise at idle. And that I should just put the head back on and live with the noise.

And since I did a port match job he thinks it's a head for a race car, and told me I should just buy a set of aftermarket heads.

This should be interesting.

al02gt

Here is the TImeSert documentation specific to Romeo heads

http://www.timesert.com/html/pi.html

Based on this, is seems they didn't use the appropriate coutersink tool, and this caused the insert not to seat flush with the combustion surface.

I'm 99% sure this caused the ticking at idle. I will call TImeSert tech support and talk to them about this issue to verify. I'm sure Ford is going to say they don't warranty a "Patch" repair so I need to have the documantation to back up the fact that they did not install the TImeSert to the manufactures specification and that is what I paid for.

So they can either have it machined and repaired properly. Or give me a new bare cylinder head.

I'm worried that they will attempt to machine it and make it worse so I would want to see any repairs have a leak-down test.