FLMustangMan

Ok so I need some good imput from those of you that do your own tuning on supercharged 4.6ls out there. I have an SCT Xcal2 that may be broke. So I will either have to pay to have it fixed or buy a new one. With just the SCT tuner I cant really do anything with my year (1996) car. And It is so expensive to take it to a shop and have it tuned now and again. I have a chance to get a Sniper Delta force package for cheap. Used of course and with both bullets(credits).

If I stay with SCT I have to another handheld and the pro packeage to do my own tuning. I don't know the pro package cost but sure its around $600-800. Plus a SCT tuner. Or I have to pay $300-500 for a tune, every time I change something major. I can get a Sniper Delta package for between $200-300. Which is more worth purchasing?

On a side note I know how to tune alittle bit but dont alot. I am willing to research and read and learn any and everything that is involved. Plus it is something I really want to do I am just a little timid on the thought that I might blow my new rebuilt engine.

Any help and/or thoughts???? Cliffy I know has Sniper right? Anyone do SCT tuning themselves?

FLMustangMan

And I already know that if I start doing my own tuning I will get a wideband o2 so I am good with A/F. Was thinking about a LM/1 to go with either tuner. Cliffy and any others what are your thoughts and setups for those of you who tune themselves

Thank you so much

PROMETHEUS PRIME

I use a sniper and love it. Very easy to modify your own tune parameters. I've had an SCT on my 06 but didn't do any personal tuning with it. The sct was just more user friendly and easier to use right away. The sniper has a bit more steps having to load it on the programmer with a computer then take it to the car to reflash. But I would go with the sniper based on what I know.

Btw...the sniper software doesn't work with windows 7 fyi. I have to run xp on a virtual computer for it to work

cliffyk

To begin, there is no "Sniper" any longer due to a pissing match with Holley--it has been Delta Force Tuning (DFT) for a couple years now--that said what package is it that you have found?

DFT has three systems available: Special Forces, Commando, and the full Delta Force Professional system.

Special Forces (SF) is a dialog driven tuning system that creates tunes based on the user's responses to a series of dialogs. It then applies those selections to the stock tune and generates a custom tune. SF comes with SF format templates for a bunch of Ford tunes (870+ at last count)

Commando provides the same software and full tune editing capacity as does the Delta Force Professional package, the only difference being that it comes with only one "template". The DF Pro package includes licenses for all available templates--some 1000+ for Ford alone.

The Commando package includes the Special Forces software, two "Bullets" which allow two vehicles to be tuned, and a single Delta Force/Commando template.

So, what exactly is it that you would be purchasing?

Regardless of what tuning system you buy, I highly recommend Greg Banish's book Engine Management: Advanced Tuning. It is a comprehensive and easy to understand introduction into tuning modern EFI engines.

Romer

For a wideband I would suggest going with 1 of the PLX packages instead. Easier to install and in my experience more reliable in use. You also dont have to worry about free air calibration.

SCT just started offering a self study beginners course. I have no idea about the quality and it is kinda pricey. Just noticed it when I was on their home page.

FLMustangMan

Cliffy I actually already have that book. I bought it a while ago and that what got me into wanting to do my own tuning. Its a great rad and I recommend it to anyone wondering about tuning.

I did not know that sniper is no more. Mabe that is why I could never find an actual sniper tuning website. I will have to look up Delta force tuning. The program I was looking at was a couple on ebay. One used and one new one. The ones I saw were sniper delta force. So I'm going to assume that must be the old version that really is no more. So I am wanting to look for Delta Force tuning??? I guess the same guestion then for that versus the SCT pro package. I want something to tune myself. The SCT does small stuff but you still have to get a dyno tune to make your tune safe with a supercharger right? I dont think you can really add some fuel here and alittle spark there to a already made tune and have a good one or can you? From my understanding you can do any and everything with the delta force tuning. I read one of your really long posts from a year or two back about the delta force tuning and it wa really helpful but I'm just kinda sketchy on if I would be cablable of tuning myself. I've never built a motor before in my life and just recently rebuilt my 4.6l 2v all by myself with no help other than a book and it runs great other than some ticking/slapping noise in the tranny area. So I think with some books and the internet and this forum I could figure it out but I want some advice/info from someone who actually does this. Any help/info/advice you or anyone can give would be much appreciated.

Oh and what I read on your other post from year or two ago is that if I get Special Forces I want the comando if anything. And the Delta is a dealer type one right? Which do you use and do you use a wideband sensor while tuning and do you really enjoy it or is it easier to go to a tuner.

Sorry for all the questions I just really want to learn to do tuning and not have to pay for something I can do. It cost almost the same for the tuning program as it does to get one dyno tune.

Thanks

FLMustangMan

Also, can you explain exactly what the teplate is? I know you probly answer this alot and I am sorry but I dont quite get how it works. I looked up the website, http://www.deltaforcetuning.com/, and was looking at the comando package. It says it comes with 2 bullets, meaning you can tune 2 differnt vehicles but it only has one template. This is what I dont quite understand. If I went with this tuner I would like to use it on my 1996 mustang gt supercharged and my 2003 F150 King Ranch 4X4. Soon I will put dual exhaust and bigger throttle body and CAI on truck so will need to tune it as well. So again can you kinda explain the template thing.

Also, I will e-mail Delta Forces these questions so I dont have to bug you too much.

And if anyone has any info on the SCT pro package please chime in. This is a good topic to discuss for mustang enthusthiasts. Mabe get the two techs from either company to reply on here.

Thanks all

cliffyk

A template is a file that lets the tuning software know the location of the settings in the raw, binary data that is the tune--each tune store this data in different locations so a template (think of it as an "address book") is needed to let the software know where everything is..

The Special Forces software (read more about SF here) comes with 900+ SF format templates that define only the settings that SF can change.

The Commando package includes SF and all the SF templates, however it also includes the Delta Force software and one DF template. The DF templates differ from the SF templates in that they define the "addresses" of all tune parameters, this because the Delta Force software allows you access to all of them.

Bullets are licenses to tune a particular vehicle and are stored in the Delta Force interface box, used by both SF and Commando to load tunes into the car's PCM.

So if you were to purchase the Commando package, it would include two bullets allowing you to use Special Forces (which comes with Commando) to tune two vehicles, and one Delta Force template for whichever vehicle you specified that would let you use the DF software to tune that vehicle.

One last thing, only the Special Forces software can be transferred to another user, the Commando/Delta Force EULA does not permit this and the software cannot be run on a new PC without obtaining a license code from Delta Force--a code that is only provided to original purchasers.

This is the same sort of licensing agreement that all the professional level tuning systems use, for obvious reasons.

FLMustangMan

Ok, so over the last couple days I have been doing a lot of research on Cliffys webpage and Delta Forces Tuning. Man my head hurts. So I get the template thing now. With the Special Forces software you can setup and do the basic tuning of two vehicles. Then with the Commando software you can take one of those tunes (by specifying the vehicle your going to use it one when you purchase it) and do every once of tuning, any and everything in the computer. I guess I was having a hard time at first understanding that the template was for one specific vehicle only. And I saw one Delta Forces Tuning website that you can buy additional templates for whatever you want. And bullets to if you want to do more tuning. Thanks for all the help Cliffyk and other who chimed in. And by the way I liked your blogs. They were informative on other things as well. Like the short throw shifter. Something I was getting into next. Answered.

I still want to hear if anyone uses SCT Pro at all and what the price is and if they like it?

Oh and for those who do use DFT, are you running a wideband and which kind? What kind of setup do you have? I'm not sure what would be a good setup to make sure I do a good tune if I use Commando. I was thinking about Inovatives LM-1 kit just to do the A/F. Thats really all I need from what I can see, right? DFT can do/read everything else.

If I go to a dyno shop around Salem, Oregon I can rent a dyno to do my tuning and they already have a wideband. Can these be hooked right up to DFT for the most part or would you have to watch the A/F during your run and then make adjustments through DFT afterwards?

Thanks again all