Rounded Plug in Cylinder 8, other plug problems.
03-14-2013, 02:59 AM
#1
Rounded Plug in Cylinder 8, other plug problems.
Hello everyone,
I'm a recently acquired owner of a 2001 Mustang GT Convertible that I've recently given a tune up to. I replaced the fuel filter, air filter, and serpentine belt right away as well as gone ahead and gotten and oil change. I went to go ahead and pull all the plugs and boots because I was having a misfire in 6 and 8 according to the OBD. For the rest of this post I'm assuming this is the correct cylinder order:
4 8
3 7
2 6
1 5
Front
So I pulled 5 and everything looked fine, I replaced the plug, adding anti-seize and boot protector on it. I pulled 6 which I was anxious to do and found that when I pulled it, it was clearly wet with fuel so therefore I determined that 6 wasn't producing spark. I happily replaced the plug in that as well as the boot and all was well. I found I couldn't replace 7 because the bolt holding the coil on was slightly stripped and I didn't have a pair of pliers handy to remove it and replace it. That's fine, 7 doesn't seem to be giving me trouble right now. I can replace that later. Then it came to #8....
I pulled the coil and the boot was partly melted at the end. I still have it and will take pictures later this morning. I replaced the boot and went to pull the spark plug. My socket spun freely inside. I grabbed a flashlight and looked down at the spark plug and low and behold there's no flats of any kind. There's no hex at the end of this plug at all. It doesn't even look rounded off, it looks like the just plain aren't there. I took depth measurements and I'm all the way in the hole. It isn't that there is something keeping my socket from spinning, it's that there is no hex section to this spark plug. I can't remove it.
Moving forward, I pulled 1 and 2 with no problems but couldn't figure out how to pull 3 and 4 at all. The cover that, as best as I can tell is some header cover for the fuel injectors (I need to look in my Chilton's for that) is blocking it. Again, I'm not too worried about that right now, as 3 and 4 aren't giving me any issues. I only want to do it for completion's sake.
I've Google'd around and from what I can see, the only way to remove that plug is to take the head off and then.... remove it somehow. If that is what it is then that's what needs done and I accept that, much of a pain in the *** as it is. What I'd like to know is if there's such a tool that... "sucks onto" the end of the plug and allows you to pull it that way or some such.
After replacing the boot the plug seems to fire. It didn't throw a code for about 45 miles, then started throwing one again. I haven't pulled the code yet so it may not be for #8, and if it isn't, so be it. Right now, if it works, I'll leave it alone. There's other things that need done like a small shifting issue into 3rd that I'm having. But it will need to be addressed eventually and if I can do so without removing the head for now, I'd prefer to.
Anyone seen this before or have other advice to give?
I'm a recently acquired owner of a 2001 Mustang GT Convertible that I've recently given a tune up to. I replaced the fuel filter, air filter, and serpentine belt right away as well as gone ahead and gotten and oil change. I went to go ahead and pull all the plugs and boots because I was having a misfire in 6 and 8 according to the OBD. For the rest of this post I'm assuming this is the correct cylinder order:
4 8
3 7
2 6
1 5
Front
So I pulled 5 and everything looked fine, I replaced the plug, adding anti-seize and boot protector on it. I pulled 6 which I was anxious to do and found that when I pulled it, it was clearly wet with fuel so therefore I determined that 6 wasn't producing spark. I happily replaced the plug in that as well as the boot and all was well. I found I couldn't replace 7 because the bolt holding the coil on was slightly stripped and I didn't have a pair of pliers handy to remove it and replace it. That's fine, 7 doesn't seem to be giving me trouble right now. I can replace that later. Then it came to #8....
I pulled the coil and the boot was partly melted at the end. I still have it and will take pictures later this morning. I replaced the boot and went to pull the spark plug. My socket spun freely inside. I grabbed a flashlight and looked down at the spark plug and low and behold there's no flats of any kind. There's no hex at the end of this plug at all. It doesn't even look rounded off, it looks like the just plain aren't there. I took depth measurements and I'm all the way in the hole. It isn't that there is something keeping my socket from spinning, it's that there is no hex section to this spark plug. I can't remove it.
Moving forward, I pulled 1 and 2 with no problems but couldn't figure out how to pull 3 and 4 at all. The cover that, as best as I can tell is some header cover for the fuel injectors (I need to look in my Chilton's for that) is blocking it. Again, I'm not too worried about that right now, as 3 and 4 aren't giving me any issues. I only want to do it for completion's sake.
I've Google'd around and from what I can see, the only way to remove that plug is to take the head off and then.... remove it somehow. If that is what it is then that's what needs done and I accept that, much of a pain in the *** as it is. What I'd like to know is if there's such a tool that... "sucks onto" the end of the plug and allows you to pull it that way or some such.
After replacing the boot the plug seems to fire. It didn't throw a code for about 45 miles, then started throwing one again. I haven't pulled the code yet so it may not be for #8, and if it isn't, so be it. Right now, if it works, I'll leave it alone. There's other things that need done like a small shifting issue into 3rd that I'm having. But it will need to be addressed eventually and if I can do so without removing the head for now, I'd prefer to.
Anyone seen this before or have other advice to give?
03-14-2013, 07:09 AM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 574
The "header cover" you are talking about is your fuel rail, but I promise you can get the coils and plugs out without taking it off. As far as the plug goes they have sockets that aren't squared inside. They are more of a twisted shape. You might try those.
03-14-2013, 09:53 AM
#3
If I were to walk into Autozone and ask for this part, what would I be asking for? Are they pretty effective? What kind of risk are we looking a here?
Thank you and thank you guys in advance.
03-15-2013, 02:09 PM
#6
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....roup_ID=680987
https://www.asseenontv.com/detail.ph...iversal-socket
I'm looking at these two tools and I'm going to hit my local Autozone and O'Reilly's tonight after work and see what I can find. The first one makes more sense but a friend of mine at work is swearing by the GatorGrip. Neither of them are deep sockets so I might have to take a dremel or something and trim down the plug somehow. I'll blow it out with an air can to make sure no shavings get down in the cylinder.
Any thoughts?
https://www.asseenontv.com/detail.ph...iversal-socket
I'm looking at these two tools and I'm going to hit my local Autozone and O'Reilly's tonight after work and see what I can find. The first one makes more sense but a friend of mine at work is swearing by the GatorGrip. Neither of them are deep sockets so I might have to take a dremel or something and trim down the plug somehow. I'll blow it out with an air can to make sure no shavings get down in the cylinder.
Any thoughts?
03-15-2013, 09:28 PM
#7
I did some digging in there. I got the tools above and was about to try them out when I tried something else. I took a wire hangar and went down there JUST TO MAKE SURE nothing was down there that shouldn't be. I felt around and realized that the plug has the hex bolt on it and it's in tact.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ae0b551.jpg
I pushed on the plug with the hangar a little bit and it wiggled. Not a LOT, but it wiggled enough that I realized after a lot of eyeball comparisons that the plug that's in there is smaller than 5/8"s.
It must just be big enough to be threaded in and not blow out of the head but just small enough that my 5/8"s can't grip onto it. Here's the #4 plug for comparison:
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps84f151e7.jpg
Thoughts? Confirmations? Dismissals?
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ae0b551.jpg
I pushed on the plug with the hangar a little bit and it wiggled. Not a LOT, but it wiggled enough that I realized after a lot of eyeball comparisons that the plug that's in there is smaller than 5/8"s.
It must just be big enough to be threaded in and not blow out of the head but just small enough that my 5/8"s can't grip onto it. Here's the #4 plug for comparison:
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps84f151e7.jpg
Thoughts? Confirmations? Dismissals?
03-16-2013, 10:48 PM
#8
Stripped now
So here's what happened. The guy stripped the head initially, and rethreaded it to 16mm. He then used a truck plug and put it in there, which obviously didn't work and it detonated. So he ran like that. So I went ahead, got it all out with a 9/16ths and replaced it, hoping it would work. Worked great for a while, then the whole thing blew out. Helicoil and all.
I'm not entirely sure what to do now. I don't know if I HAVE to get new heads now or if this is fixable until tax check time.
I'm not entirely sure what to do now. I don't know if I HAVE to get new heads now or if this is fixable until tax check time.
04-18-2013, 10:50 AM
#9
To bring an update to this thread and where we're at so far, I considered going the Time-Sert route (see this thread here) but ultimately decided it'd be best to do it right the first time and just replace the head. I took it to a good fellow named Justin here in Glendale, AZ and we power washed the engine bay and removed both the heads. I've managed to learn a lot between when this all started and now thanks to the advice of you good folks and reading/seeing how this all works. Special thanks to the fellow that suggested I NOT do this on my own the first time. You were right, I'd be dying right now in tears.
Anyway, we found a good used head and took it to a machinist to be flattened, ported, and get a valve job done on it, etc. We'd also taken my passenger-side head to have the same done, only to find that three inserts were used in that head, as well, and they all popped right out. The conclusion is that the previous fellow had more or less stitched individual problems as they'd gone instead of doing the job right (the Time-Sert method which has proven strength or replacing the head over time, as opposed to Helicoils which are obvious to me that they just pop out over time, especially when install half-arsed). The machine shop is looking for more heads because the two they've already tried failed a stress test they put on the threads, which is a test I didn't even know machine shops do. I'm guessing that makes them a good machine shop.
All in all, after machining, each head is running me about $300. I'm of course replacing the chain guides, one of which was broken, all the gaskets, etc. The pistons don't have any wiggle and measure perfectly, as does everything else. While I'm definitely further along than I was, I'm not yet competent I know what 'all the things' are that we're measuring. Compression tests were good across the board except the blown cylinder which we couldn't test.
I'll keep everything up to date as we go. It's my hope that in learning all of this I can start work on building a small-block and working my way up. It'll be a long-term project and will take some capital but I'm having the time of my life here and am anxious to give it a go. Everything has to be so precise, and I absolutely love that.
One question for you guys concerns the connecting rods. I've read in service manuals and other online articles that connecting rods have a service life of 200,000 miles. I'm at 166,000 miles. Justin says they're fine, though I'm wondering how he knows that without looking at them. Is that why he looks for wiggle in the pistons and checks their maximum/minimum depth?
Thanks in advance!
Anyway, we found a good used head and took it to a machinist to be flattened, ported, and get a valve job done on it, etc. We'd also taken my passenger-side head to have the same done, only to find that three inserts were used in that head, as well, and they all popped right out. The conclusion is that the previous fellow had more or less stitched individual problems as they'd gone instead of doing the job right (the Time-Sert method which has proven strength or replacing the head over time, as opposed to Helicoils which are obvious to me that they just pop out over time, especially when install half-arsed). The machine shop is looking for more heads because the two they've already tried failed a stress test they put on the threads, which is a test I didn't even know machine shops do. I'm guessing that makes them a good machine shop.
All in all, after machining, each head is running me about $300. I'm of course replacing the chain guides, one of which was broken, all the gaskets, etc. The pistons don't have any wiggle and measure perfectly, as does everything else. While I'm definitely further along than I was, I'm not yet competent I know what 'all the things' are that we're measuring. Compression tests were good across the board except the blown cylinder which we couldn't test.
I'll keep everything up to date as we go. It's my hope that in learning all of this I can start work on building a small-block and working my way up. It'll be a long-term project and will take some capital but I'm having the time of my life here and am anxious to give it a go. Everything has to be so precise, and I absolutely love that.
One question for you guys concerns the connecting rods. I've read in service manuals and other online articles that connecting rods have a service life of 200,000 miles. I'm at 166,000 miles. Justin says they're fine, though I'm wondering how he knows that without looking at them. Is that why he looks for wiggle in the pistons and checks their maximum/minimum depth?
Thanks in advance!
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